bad news - is it just me (OT - virus)

[Hammer of Thor]

Up until this crapstorm, I was pretty happy with his stewardship of the economy and international relations.

As this month has worn on, I have become increasingly dismayed, frustrated, and angered by the abuse of our civil rights and the economic destruction. The response by government at all levels has been a showcase of authoritarianism. Our government and our ivory tower academics have put on a showcase highlighting their incompetence, insensitivity, and avarice while painting themselves as heroes. They have all lost legitimacy.

Yeah, thousands of people are dying out there. But how’s the money doing? Is the money ok?

I feel so sorry for you that you can’t go out to a bar to get a beer to drink away your sorrows about the money’s health. We’re living 1984!!!!

 

[Soliel]

I was flipping through the other night and "Terminator" was on. I watched a few minutes and when they said everything went down in 2021, I was like, "Well, at least we're on schedule."

I know. We’re getting there in a hurry.

 

[JJC]

Yeah, thousands of people are dying out there. But how’s the money doing? Is the money ok?

I feel so sorry for you that you can’t go out to a bar to get a beer to drink away your sorrows about the money’s health. We’re living 1984!!!!

Making bad assumptions. Your response tells me more about you than about me.

I own and run a small business. You probably hate "business", but it's people like me that make sure that those who helped build the business don't end up unemployed, unable to buy food, pay rent, keep their cars, etc. when the SHTF. The big corporate guys will dump people in a heartbeat. Most of us small businesses view things differently.

Yes, it's terrible that people are dying from COVID. It will also be terrible when people die from the resulting suicides, addictions, and poverty resulting from the demand destruction created by government policy.

Think a little deeper and maybe you will understand why the economy is important - without it, you can't have your basic needs met: food, clothing, shelter. You might thing the government can provide it, but only if they take it from someone productive and transfer it. When you kill the goose that lays the golden egg, what happens when that stash of eggs gets depleted? Law of the jungle.

 

[Coolade]

Yah it's getting closer to jungle, go get guns, cash out, go get ammo, stock up , shoot those deer on property, collect the water from the roof, get that garden going.

It's the 18th century with weenies in control .

Oh wait . They started the economy . People are ok . Caring for the weak. Moving on . Never mind.

 

[DarrylS]

My mother in law died on Feb. 28th and a very close friend died on March 3, neither from COVID-19.. what is interesting is both my wife and friends wife both share the same sentiment.

Both are "glad" they are they died when they did, as they both got to say good bye to their loved ones and spent the last day with them along with wakes and services.. since hospitals have been off limits to visitors neither could imagine what it would be like if they died now.. not being able to say good bye and grieve with friends/family would have been difficult for both.

Many of us are prepared for death, but to die alone without our loved ones near is difficult to think about..

 

[jah]

Making bad assumptions. Your response tells me more about you than about me.

I own and run a small business. You probably hate "business", but it's people like me that make sure that those who helped build the business don't end up unemployed, unable to buy food, pay rent, keep their cars, etc. when the SHTF. The big corporate guys will dump people in a heartbeat. Most of us small businesses view things differently.

Yes, it's terrible that people are dying from COVID. It will also be terrible when people die from the resulting suicides, addictions, and poverty resulting from the demand destruction created by government policy.

Think a little deeper and maybe you will understand why the economy is important - without it, you can't have your basic needs met: food, clothing, shelter. You might thing the government can provide it, but only if they take it from someone productive and transfer it. When you kill the goose that lays the golden egg, what happens when that stash of eggs gets depleted? Law of the jungle.

Don't break your arm patting yourself on the back too hard, golden goose.

I do have fears of hyperinflation but I don't think that's what you're talking about.

 

[FirstAndGoal]

No one I personally know but my wife knew the nurse whistle blower for the Littleton nursing home.

 

[BTTA]

Part of the problem is that those public figures who are most animated about getting the economy going couldn't care less about you and me, the small business owner. They represent an entirely different strata of the economy, the ownership class and oligarchs, and are only concerned with ensuring that those folks get their money machines rolling again. So when we talk about "getting the economy going again" we all aren't talking about the same thing.

I agree, we need a way to live with the disease and open up the community-level economy again. Its going to be a difficult line to walk and it should be informed by thoughtful conversations.

Yesterday's announcement that the banks can grab people's $1,200 deposits to make credit card payments to themselves is indicative. That money isn't meant to feed Bank of America and CITI. It is meant to feed grocery stores and tradespeople and similar.

Making bad assumptions. Your response tells me more about you than about me.

I own and run a small business. You probably hate "business", but it's people like me that make sure that those who helped build the business don't end up unemployed, unable to buy food, pay rent, keep their cars, etc. when the SHTF. The big corporate guys will dump people in a heartbeat. Most of us small businesses view things differently.

Yes, it's terrible that people are dying from COVID. It will also be terrible when people die from the resulting suicides, addictions, and poverty resulting from the demand destruction created by government policy.

Think a little deeper and maybe you will understand why the economy is important - without it, you can't have your basic needs met: food, clothing, shelter. You might thing the government can provide it, but only if they take it from someone productive and transfer it. When you kill the goose that lays the golden egg, what happens when that stash of eggs gets depleted? Law of the jungle.

 

[BTTA]

Yah it's getting closer to jungle, go get guns, cash out, go get ammo, stock up , shoot those deer on property, collect the water from the roof, get that garden going.

It's the 18th century with weenies in control .

Oh wait . They started the economy . People are ok . Caring for the weak. Moving on . Never mind.

Someone calculated how long the US deer population would remain viable if the food chains collapse, and it came out at 4-6 months. At that point, there are so few of them left that they are functionally extinct - there isn't enough genetic diversity left to restore the population.

 

[Mrs.PatsFanInVa]

My mother in law died on Feb. 28th and a very close friend died on March 3, neither from COVID-19.. what is interesting is both my wife and friends wife both share the same sentiment.

Both are "glad" they are they died when they did, as they both got to say good bye to their loved ones and spent the last day with them along with wakes and services.. since hospitals have been off limits to visitors neither could imagine what it would be like if they died now.. not being able to say good bye and grieve with friends/family would have been difficult for both.

Many of us are prepared for death, but to die alone without our loved ones near is difficult to think about..

This - yes!! Thank you for your eloquence on the subject, DarrylS and condolences on your mother-in-law and friend.

 

[Mrs.PatsFanInVa]

Yesterday's announcement that the banks can grab people's $1,200 deposits to make credit card payments to themselves is indicative. That money isn't meant to feed Bank of America and CITI. It is meant to feed grocery stores and tradespeople and similar.

What???? Is this true??? I have not heard this. If so - this is horrible. Does anyone have a link? I will look on my own, of course, but if someone already has it, please share it. Thanks.

 

[primetime]

Don't break your arm patting yourself on the back too hard, golden goose.

I do have fears of hyperinflation but I don't think that's what you're talking about.

Price indices have fallen since the lockdowns began. Inflation rate expectations have been extremely low for 30 years (this hasn't stopped people using it as a hand-wringing excuse not to engage in pump priming, of course), and they collapsed in the last couple weeks. Markets actually expect less inflation than they did prior to emergency measures in place. And calling these 'emergency measures' is kind of overselling it because the Fed is doing less than they were during QE from the previous recession (in part because they're constrained by already low rates), and QE didn't end very long ago.

10-Year Breakeven Inflation Rate

 

[FirstAndGoal]

Someone calculated how long the US deer population would remain viable if the food chains collapse, and it came out at 4-6 months. At that point, there are so few of them left that they are functionally extinct - there isn't enough genetic diversity left to restore the population.

Soylent Green

 

[maust]

What???? Is this true??? I have not heard this. If so - this is horrible. Does anyone have a link? I will look on my own, of course, but if someone already has it, please share it. Thanks.

The part about credit card payments isn't quite accurate. However the stimulus payments are not classified as government benefits and as such are subject to garnishment or attachment

Your Coronavirus Check Is Coming. Your Bank Can Grab It.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

What???? Is this true??? I have not heard this. If so - this is horrible. Does anyone have a link? I will look on my own, of course, but if someone already has it, please share it. Thanks.

I think this is only if the account that it posts to has a negative balance. I doubt banks would do this as that would be a bad look for them. Of course, the state's can also grab the money to pay off child support.

 

[Mrs.PatsFanInVa]

The part about credit card payments isn't quite accurate. However the stimulus payments are not classified as government benefits and as such are subject to garnishment or attachment

Your Coronavirus Check Is Coming. Your Bank Can Grab It.

Thank you. So sad.

 

[primetime]

I think this is only if the account that it posts to has a negative balance. I doubt banks would do this as that would be a bad look for them. Of course, the state's can also grab the money to pay off child support.

Ah yes, banks, famously afraid of doing things for financial gain because of bad aesthetics.

 

[Mrs.PatsFanInVa]

I think this is only if the account that it posts to has a negative balance. I doubt banks would do this as that would be a bad look for them. Of course, the state's can also grab the money to pay off child support.

No, that’s the most likely scenario but any private debt collector can grab it.

Read the article. It’s kinda tricky reading but it’s there.

WITH THE CLEAR INTENT that CARES Act payments go to meet people’s immediate economic needs, Congress exempted them from debt collection if the debt is owed to federal or state agencies, unless the debt involves a child support payment. But Congress did not extend this exemption to private debt collection. The payments are defined as tax credits and not federal benefits, making them subject to “garnishment,” in which a debt collector that wins a judgment in court can seize anything of value held by the debtor.


As Treasury indicated, banks must make their own decisions whether to seize CARES Act payments. The Prospect reached out to five leading banks—Wells Fargo, JPMorgan Chase, Bank of America, Citibank, and U.S. Bank—asking if they planned to use the payments to offset delinquent debts. Only JPMorgan Chase provided an answer: While they would normally use incoming funds to offset a negative balance on a charged-off account, for these payments it will return the money to the government. “The U.S. Treasury can then determine the address to mail the full stimulus amount and ensure the former customer gets the full benefit,” spokeswoman Anne Pace said. She clarified that this would only be in the circumstance of a charged-off account, leaving open the possibility of using a directly deposited payment to offset loans.

None of the other four banks would commit to this process, to say nothing of the thousands of banks and credit unions across the country. Treasury’s Bureau of the Fiscal Service also did not respond to a request for comment.

 

[jah]

Price indices have fallen since the lockdowns began. Inflation rate expectations have been extremely low for 30 years (this hasn't stopped people using it as a hand-wringing excuse not to engage in pump priming, of course), and they collapsed in the last couple weeks. Markets actually expect less inflation than they did prior to emergency measures in place. And calling these 'emergency measures' is kind of overselling it because the Fed is doing less than they were during QE from the previous recession (in part because they're constrained by already low rates), and QE didn't end very long ago.

10-Year Breakeven Inflation Rate

I'll defer to your economic analysis, but I was under the impression we just printed money close to the scale of the totality of USD in circulation. Maybe that's not "hyperinflation", but I worry prices will be close to double across the board in the near future.

 

[maust]

I think this is only if the account that it posts to has a negative balance. I doubt banks would do this as that would be a bad look for them. Of course, the state's can also grab the money to pay off child support.

No, that’s the most likely scenario but any private debt collector can grab it.

A debt collector can only "grab it" if there is an existing court judgement in place. Short of the funds being designated as exempt banks are bound by law to honor them.

One of our sons is in banking. To me the designation looked like another lack of foresight by a government that has become so insular it has no clue about the workaday world. I was curious as to what I might be missing. I reached out and had an involved discussion with him this morning about how it ended up playing out like this. Viewed from a dispassionate standpoint it's largely a matter of the classification of the stimulus disbursement and existing process within the banks for delinquent/closed with negative balance accounts and any outstanding levy or garnishment the courts have previously charged the banks with satisfying. Any and all complications for the banks would have been avoided if stimulus checks had simply been designated as government benefits since they are exempt from seizure, forfeiture and garnishment.

At first glance that sure read as a colossal and quite avoidable blunder or at least to me it did. My son was more than happy to point out the error in my thinking (aren't they always?) and what I had missed. The fly in the ointment was/is child support. One of the primary goals of the stimulus checks is helping the most financially vulnerable lower income citizens. Chief among them would be children whose sustenance is dependent on child support. With that in mind and also considering in no small part speed was of the essence in crafting a stimulus package to do the greatest good for the largest number as quickly as possible the decision to not classify the funds as government benefits, thereby making them subject to child support judgements, makes sense. Unfortunately that same vehicle legally makes the funds subject to all existing judgements in descending order. Levies against closed accounts, including those with negative balances, don't go away and banks are legally responsible for honoring them.

Among the reasons other banks weren't quick to follow suit with the famous for grandstanding Chase may have exercised caution because they felt Chase made the statement knowing it was BS or Chase might also simply have not fully considered the legal ramifications. Rejecting a deposit to a closed account is one thing but sending any stimulus funds deposited into a closed account back isn't quite that simple. There is a concern in the industry it might make the banks subject to legal action as a result of their failure to honor existing levies against them. Certainly the lawyers are busy with that one.

We should not lose sight of the fact that anyone allowing stimulus funds to be deposited into a closed account has only themselves to blame, it's not as though stimulus deposits should take anyone by surprise. Let's not overly concern ourselves with having sympathy for a devil to lazy to update their info.