Our OL and QB's are already better than last year

lancerman said:

Jones had a winning season once. Brissett couldn't do that on teams that were projected to be Super Bowl contenders. He's safer, but he's also not even remotely productive.

Click to expand...

The 2021 Patriots team was far superior to any team Brissett has ever started for. Mac had 3/4 of a decent season, then became the QB we watched for the next two years... he sucked. In short, once teams had tape on him, he couldn't produce without turning the ball over at a league leading pace.

Brissett maybe be vanilla, but he won't lose the game for you. Jameis Winston once led the entire NFL in passing yards and ranked 3rd in TD's... he has sat on the bench ever since because turnovers are team killers. The good things you do are undone by the bad. Jameis Winston was only good in fantasy football leagues that don't penalize you for mistakes... Mac is Winston-lite, not nearly as talented but just as inept at protecting the ball. After points, turnovers are the most important stat in football.

FreeTedWilliams said:

No, No they are not. Nobody is better than even a disinterested Brown.

Andrews is a year older.
Strange is a bust.
Nobody even knows who is going to play tackle.

Brisket is better than Zappe, I will give you that.

Put Maye behind this line and watch the season and his career implode before it even starts.

Draft Harrison Jr. Then go O line depth and wait til Arch declares in 2 years.

Manning to Harrison, think about it!

Click to expand...

We don't put Maye behind this line or the rest of the offense for his rookie season. He should sit a year and be coached and through whatever talent is accumulated this draft, combined with next year's free agency and draft, then if the talent is sufficient he should start. If he has the potential to be a Franchise QB, there's no reason to rush him (especially given that he's young enough to sit a year).

Thunderhead said:

Worst offensive roster in the league, no matter how you try to spin it or frame it.

Click to expand...

The draft and remainder of free agency haven't happened yet, ask me before camp.

Thunderhead said:

Worst offensive roster in the league, no matter how you try to spin it or frame it.

Click to expand...

Solid QB play could make this roster look a lot better.

Wozzy said:

The 2021 Patriots team was far superior to any team Brissett has ever started for. Mac had 3/4 of a decent season, then became the QB we watched for the next two years... he sucked. In short, once teams had tape on him, he couldn't produce without turning the ball over at a league leading pace.

Brissett maybe be vanilla, but he won't lose the game for you. Jameis Winston once led the entire NFL in passing yards and ranked 3rd in TD's... he has sat on the bench ever since because turnovers are team killers. The good things you do are undone by the bad. Jameis Winston was only good in fantasy football leagues that don't penalize you for mistakes... Mac is Winston-lite, not nearly as talented but just as inept at protecting the ball. After points, turnovers are the most important stat in football.

Click to expand...

No it wasn't. The Colts in 2019 were far better and were projected to be a serious contender with Luck. Brissett went 7-8 with them. They added more talent than the 2018 team that went 10-6 and won a playoff game and still ended up worse.

JohnJH said:

We don't put Maye behind this line or the rest of the offense for his rookie season. He should sit a year and be coached and through whatever talent is accumulated this draft, combined with next year's free agency and draft, then if the talent is sufficient he should start. If he has the potential to be a Franchise QB, there's no reason to rush him (especially given that he's young enough to sit a year).

Click to expand...

Good points. If that holds true that we do select maye tomorrow. Then Brissett is definitely the guy this year. Unless maye or whoever we take shows by camp that they are ready to lead this offense. Here's why I agree with your points.

1) the LT position needs to be solidified

2) We need to designate by trade a true #1 WR

3) the defense will have no mercy on the rookie in training camp. So if he really is that "guy" he will show it in camp.

Real fan 02 said:

Solid QB play could make this roster look a lot better.

Click to expand...

Better but not contenders. And people have to really come to reckon with the reality that Mac was bad but part of him being bad was the offense being very bad as well. Take any of the playoff QB's and put them on this offense and they are worse than they were last year. We would be better because they'd improve on Mac, but we'd still be dragging them down.

lancerman said:

No it wasn't. The Colts in 2019 were far better and were projected to be a serious contender with Luck. Brissett went 7-8 with them. They added more talent than the 2018 team that went 10-6 and won a playoff game and still ended up worse.

Click to expand...

The 2019 Colts with their 20th ranked defense in points allowed per drive, was better than the 2021 Patriots #2 defense in points allowed... I'm sure you can explain how that works?

Wins and losses is a team stat, not a QB stat.

Tom Brady passed for 505 yards and 3 TD's in a Super Bowl and lost because his defense wasn't good enough... they didn't lose because of Tom.

lancerman said:

Better but not contenders. And people have to really come to reckon with the reality that Mac was bad but part of him being bad was the offense being very bad as well. Take any of the playoff QB's and put them on this offense and they are worse than they were last year. We would be better because they'd improve on Mac, but we'd still be dragging them down.

Click to expand...

Here's what I'll say. Had we had adequate QB play in '22 & 23 were a play off team. The inability to score is what has hampered us.

The defense is more than good enough the defense was basically wasted last 2 seasons from the problems on offense. We have some pieces offensive we aren't "terrible " Antonio Gibson is going to be a revelation for this offense helping the QB. The team knows they are going to have to get a true #1 here be it tomorrow or day 2,3 it's a must! So to sum up what I'm saying is all hinges on the play of the QB.. say we had Russell Wilson numbers in 2023, 24-8 from the QB position we are absolutely a playoff team with the defense we have.

Wozzy said:

The 2021 Patriots team was far superior to any team Brissett has ever started for. Mac had 3/4 of a decent season, then became the QB we watched for the next two years... he sucked. In short, once teams had tape on him, he couldn't produce without turning the ball over at a league leading pace.

Brissett maybe be vanilla, but he won't lose the game for you. Jameis Winston once led the entire NFL in passing yards and ranked 3rd in TD's... he has sat on the bench ever since because turnovers are team killers. The good things you do are undone by the bad. Jameis Winston was only good in fantasy football leagues that don't penalize you for mistakes... Mac is Winston-lite, not nearly as talented but just as inept at protecting the ball. After points, turnovers are the most important stat in football.

Click to expand...

I know Jacoby only started 2 games but the 2016 Super Bowl champion Pats were so much better than the 2021 team.

sb1 said:

I know Jacoby only started 2 games but the 2016 Super Bowl champion Pats were so much better than the 2021 team.

Click to expand...

Brissett in 2016 was playing with a torn tendon in his throwing hand because JimmyG was soft.

Put Herbert or Burrow on the 2021 Pat's team and they probably win it all.

Real fan 02 said:

Here's what I'll say. Had we had adequate QB play in '22 & 23 were a play off team. The inability to score is what has hampered us.

The defense is more than good enough the defense was basically wasted last 2 seasons from the problems on offense. We have some pieces offensive we aren't "terrible " Antonio Gibson is going to be a revelation for this offense helping the QB. The team knows they are going to have to get a true #1 here be it tomorrow or day 2,3 it's a must! So to sum up what I'm saying is all hinges on the play of the QB.. say we had Russell Wilson numbers in 2023, 24-8 from the QB position we are absolutely a playoff team with the defense we have.

Click to expand...

Agree with the first part.

Assuming they draft a stud left tackle and keep everyone healthy, I think fans will be surprised at how good this 2024 team is, even with Brissett. They don't have to light up the scoreboard, they just have to be respectable on offense, run the ball and the defense can't have a let down post-BB.

Wozzy said:

Brissett in 2016 was playing with a torn tendon in his throwing hand because JimmyG was soft.

Put Herbert or Burrow on the 2021 Pat's team and they probably win it all.

Click to expand...

Still a way better team than 2021 IMO.

I'm skeptical those guys win it all as Buffalo demonstrated in January that the defense was not nearly as good as advertised.

mgteich said:

We will add a QB and at least one OT and probably an OG late in the draft. We may even sign an additional free agent.
=========================
QUARTERBACK
Bissette replaced Jones. Rourke and Zappe are back, at least for now.

IOL
All are back from last year, except that the youngsters have more experience.
We added Leverett.

OT
2023: Onwenu, McDermott, Lowe and Wheatley are all back.
We have added Okorafor and Anderson is back from IR.
=======================
BOTTOM LINE - IMPROVEMENT

Playing are the end of 2023, now out: Jones, Trent Brown

Competing in 2024: Brissette, Okorafor, Leverett, Anderson with 2-4 to come

Click to expand...

i think Brissette was an undervalued signing. A guy with some talent who know what he is there for. He will play fine and mentor the new QB and be a great bridge in this multi-year rebuild.

sb1 said:

Still a way better team than 2021 IMO.

I'm skeptical those guys win it all as Buffalo demonstrated in January that the defense was not nearly as good as advertised.

Click to expand...

Comparing a player who couldn't throw because he had a torn tendon in his throwing hand to Mac, and saying it's in any way a fair comparison is absurd.

We have Brissett's stats as a starter over his entire career available to us, he is superior to Mac Jones.

Mac is a turnover machine, Brissett isn't explosive, but he's safe and efficient... better.

Wozzy said:

The 2019 Colts with their 20th ranked defense in points allowed per drive, was better than the 2021 Patriots #2 defense in points allowed... I'm sure you can explain how that works?

Wins and losses is a team stat, not a QB stat.

Tom Brady passed for 505 yards and 3 TD's in a Super Bowl and lost because his defense wasn't good enough... they didn't lose because of Tom.

Click to expand...

Yeah the 2021 Patriots offense was more efficient and put less of a burden on their defense. Team game like you said.

Real fan 02 said:

Good points. If that holds true that we do select maye tomorrow. Then Brissett is definitely the guy this year. Unless maye or whoever we take shows by camp that they are ready to lead this offense. Here's why I agree with your points.

1) the LT position needs to be solidified

2) We need to designate by trade a true #1 WR

3) the defense will have no mercy on the rookie in training camp. So if he really is that "guy" he will show it in camp.

Click to expand...

And, as you probably realize, we'll probably be picking in the top 10 in the 2025 Draft and will have (even after extending any of our own players) a nice chunk of money to spend in free agency. But unlike this past free agency period, young and capable top tier talent will see that we have our QB situation resolved (especially offensive players), and will be more likely to want to come here. Then we can snag a Day 1 starter at LT in 2025 (which we've found them also in the 2nd round and later). I suspect that like me, you realize that this is a 3 to 4 year rebuild to be a true SB Contender/Winner again (but only if the right moves are made).

sb1 said:

Feels like Strange is starting to go down the Isiah Wynn injury prone first rounder path. Not a great place to be

Click to expand...

I know I am in the vast minority here with my opinion on Strange, but I believe we are all being a bit premature in writing him off.

Strange suffered his injury early in training camp last year, and missed the entire preseason. He should have been placed on IR back then. I have zero evidence, but suspect there may have been a bit of pressure applied for him to play through it since the OL was already a catastrophe before the season even began.

As a result he missed time early and frankly did not play that well when returned, still not 100% healthy and still going to need off season surgery. Then the inevitable happened, and he landed on IR anyways.

With that in mind I'm hesitant to judge him on his 2023 performance. I'd rather have a healthy Strange than Mafi in the starting lineup. And the Patriots have too many other positions in need of upgrades to use a draft pick on a guard.

Was he drafted too early? Yes, absolutely. But that's a sunk cost and therefore irrelevant. If he was drafted in the 4th round would people here feel the same way about him? Very doubtful.

Wozzy said:

Comparing a player who couldn't throw because he had a torn tendon in his throwing hand to Mac, and saying it's in any way a fair comparison is absurd.

We have Brissett's stats as a starter over his entire career available to us, he is superior to Mac Jones.

Mac is a turnover machine, Brissett isn't explosive, but he's safe and efficient... better.

Click to expand...

He's not though lol.

There's no real statistical evidence that Brissett is better. You at best can argue he's a little better in INT's. Mac has a better completion percentage by a signficant amount, more Y/A, when you equalize starts Jones who struggled with TD's is better, Jacoby with a much larger sample size has a slightly worse passer rating.

Even Jacobys best year on his best offense ever was worse than Mac's best year.

mgteich said:

We will add a QB and at least one OT and probably an OG late in the draft. We may even sign an additional free agent.
=========================
QUARTERBACK
Bissette replaced Jones. Rourke and Zappe are back, at least for now.

IOL
All are back from last year, except that the youngsters have more experience.
We added Leverett.

OT
2023: Onwenu, McDermott, Lowe and Wheatley are all back.
We have added Okorafor and Anderson is back from IR.
=======================
BOTTOM LINE - IMPROVEMENT

Playing are the end of 2023, now out: Jones, Trent Brown

Competing in 2024: Brissette, Okorafor, Leverett, Anderson with 2-4 to come

Click to expand...

Bottom Line: Barely Adequate. Save your glee for something significant.