Drake Maye would be the IDEAL pick for the Patriots at #3

gobesmug said:

The disrepect against Kraft as the GOAT owner is ridiculous. When he bought the Patriots they were a laughing stock on their way to be relocated to CT, AKA little NY.

Since taking over as owner the Patriots have been to 10 superbowls. Have rarely missed the playoffs and Kraft has had 3 HCs prior to Mayo and all happen to be HOF HCs.

Clearly Kraft knows what he is doing

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Kraft didn't hire Parcells. In fact, it could be argued that he drove him out of town. Kraft also didn't draft Brady, or decide to play Brady over Bledsoe. He DID however sign Bledsoe to a then-record 100+ million extension.

I think Mccarhy has more zip on this throws has anyone ever timed the velocity of Mayes throws? Cause that Aaron Rodgers, Jordan love kind of velocity is why I think Mccarhy is being heavily considered.

That extra Zip has so much.

FredFromDartmouth said:

Taking Maye at 3 is really risky and could set up the Patriots for an epic failure. This is a great year for OL and WRs (and QBs also). If the Patriots somehow can overrule Bob Kraft and trade back, they would be able to take advantage of this bounty and restock in areas of need.

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Fred, you miss the critical point; THIS draft is rare that it has 3 QB's that are worth taking with a top 3 pick. All you can do when drafting ANY player, but QB's in particular, is do your best to assess talent and character. No matter how good a player is in year one, the success of that player ultimately is going to depend on how he develops moving forward.

THIS draft has 3 (or more) QB's that have BOTH innate talent and the character to develop into all pro QB. That doesn't mean they all WILL be all pros, but the ability is there. Now since an offense starts with the QB, there is no time better to start than right NOW. Next year you never know where you will draft and in what is seen as a weaker QB class, it is likely that. if we wait, the guys left on the board will have even MORE questions than Maye or Daniels.

Narratives are all over the place, but I cannot see a faster way forward than to pick one of these 3 guys. No guarantees, of course, but more chances for success.

As for the OL, you CAN build a very solid OL with no names that develop into stars. Want to try and name all the "all stars" on the OL from 2001-2003. Get an OT in the 2 or 3rd, and coach and scheme the hell out of the guys you got.

Dropping down to pick up the elusive #1 WR is more of a crap shoot than QB. First even if you get one that EVENTUALLY becomes elite, most take a year or two to become that.

Finally I am reminded of something I've read about by a draft guru that I always think about this time of year. He postulates that in every draft there are 8-12 true talents in the draft. Guys who COULD become one of those top 5% kind of players. Then from there down to around 40 are a second group, say 1A kind of players. These are guys you expect to be starters and occasionally be an all pro every now and again. And so forth moving down. For that reason I CANNOT see not getting the QB at 3 instead taking say 2 second tier players and a 2nd tier player next year from the Vikes

FredFromDartmouth said:

If the Patriots do not trade back, they will miss out on some bluechip OL and WR picks and take a huge gamble on an untested QB, a QB that could be ruined with no supporting cast. I vote for trading back and taking JJ plus a LT and some WRs.

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Too much of a risk to trade down and NOT get a great QB. By all accounts McCarthy isn't going to be there at 11. Now you are looking at maybe taking Pennix at 23....you HOPE.

BTW- A quick questions that is kind of off topic about Pennix. IF he didn't have all the injury issues his first 4 years in college, and you analyzed him solely on his two HEALTHY seasons at UW. Would he be a top 5 pick?

FredFromDartmouth said:

Note: In the interest of full disclosure, I also have a less than honorable reason for wishing that the Patriots trade back; a trade back will make Thursday night way more fun.

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rochrist said:

Kraft didn't hire Parcells. In fact, it could be argued that he drove him out of town. Kraft also didn't draft Brady, or decide to play Brady over Bledsoe. He DID however sign Bledsoe to a then-record 100+ million extension.

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To give credit where credit is due, Bob Kraft kept the Pats in NE.

When he was called on to stand up to the league, giving compensation to the Rats for BB, and caving during Spygate and Inflategate, he spit the bit and played go along to get along.

He cost BB three 1st round picks plus, and BB was able to overcome that and engineer 6 SB championships.

That is not the actions of a HOFer. Kraft was along for the ride.

If Kraft makes it to the HOF it will be because he bent over for the league when requested. He did NOT support the players, coaches and fans.

patfanken said:

Fred, you miss the critical point; THIS draft is rare that it has 3 QB's that are worth taking with a top 3 pick. .

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If everyone agreed with this assessment, the world would be somewhat different.
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It is NOT at all clear that Maye is worth the #3 pick. There are many who put him below #3 in evaluating the QB's. Even if he is #3, he may be far from the prospect that Williams and Daniels are.

After the combine, pro days, interviews and much analysis, there is a definite different beyond the usual hyping up of a player that was previously rated in 20's or lower (McCarthy, this year).

PATSYLICIOUS said:

Josh Allen NFL Draft 2018: Scouting Report for Buffalo Bills' Pick

POSITIVES — Allen's arm strength ranks as the best some scouts have ever seen. — He can easily hit deep comebacks on a line with tight velocity and has the power to push the ball vertically...

syndication.bleacherreport.com

Josh Allen scouting report from 2018. Almost a carbon copy of maye’s. Gotta develop him properly though

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Josh Allen was rated much higher. His arm talent was other worldly. He is a freak. Taller, bigger, stronger.
Maye is not in the same tier as Allen was.

slash83 said:

Man I keep going back and forth between Daniels and Maye. I’d be happy with either at the end of the day.

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Daniels is going 2. He is a better prospect right now.

The Gr8est said:

If the Pats draft a QB at #3, I expect they will be drafting high again next year.

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Safe bet no matter who they draft at #3, QB or not

Sam Bam Cunningham said:

Josh Allen was rated much higher. His arm talent was other worldly. He is a freak. Taller, bigger, stronger.
Maye is not in the same tier as Allen was.

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Possibly, i cant recall exactly how much higher rated the arm strength /talent was. I think it was breer who mentioned allen was about a tick higher in most categories. But their strengths and weaknesses listed are almost identical.

There is a huge risk with taking the QB at 3 that all you star-y eyed draftnicks are in love with. I don't like risk. What if this QB turns into Zack Wilson or Trey Lance or Justin Fields, or some other flop? There are sure to be some flops among the top QB prospects.

Taking a QB at 3 could be a waste of a high first round pick, and it would be a disaster for the Patriots. Not only would they whiff on a QB, but they would miss out on a blue chip LT and WR and an additional high pick next year.

The safe, sensible thing to do is trade back and restock the offense. Next year you will have two first round picks and can maneuver around to get that star QB if need be. He will have someone to throw to and will be protected.

The worst case scenario is possible with Maye at 3: He looks OK in the preseason, but unpolished. He rides the bench in the regular season as the Patriots lose game after game with Brisette. All the pundits like the Felger/Jones idiot types are screaming to start Maye. Kraft forces Mayo to start Maye. Maye cannot find an open WR and gets blindsided on his left side and leaves the game on a cart...etc.

FredFromDartmouth said:

There is a huge risk with taking the QB at 3 that all you star-y eyed draftnicks are in love with. I don't like risk. What if this QB turns into Zack Wilson or Trey Lance, Justin Fields, or some other flop? That would be a waste of a high first round pick, and it would be a disaster for the Patriots. Not only would they whiff on a QB, but they would miss out on a blue chip LT and WR and an additional high pick next year.

The safe, sensible thing to do is trade back and restock the offense. Next year you will have two first round picks and can maneuver around to get that star QB if need be. He will have someone to throw to and will be protected.

The worst case scenario is possible with Maye at 3: He looks OK in the preseason, but unpolished. He rides the bench in the regular season as the Patriots lose game after game with Brisette. All the pundits like the Felger/Jones idiot types are screaming to start Maye. Kraft forces Mayo to start Maye. Maye cannot find an open WR and gets blindsided on his left side and leaves the game on a cart...etc.

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Passing on a qb who turns into an elite qb would also be disaster. More disastrous as these types of qbs don’t grow on trees.

Any Change of leaving with a top 5 QB and a top 5 WR in this draft even if we have to trade future assets?

Like landing Maye or Mccarhty as well as landing Mitchell or Leggette

My love affair with May is over...McCarthy is catching my eye for a 2025 starter.

mgteich said:

So, "fix the line" really means that we find a starting LT and a developmental backup?

That's fine.

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When BB had a position to fill, he'd bring a value vet in he knew could play, draft an option, and bring an UDFA in as well. Cover your as.

I don't think for a second he named one a starter until the end of camp/preseason, or didn't assume any of them could start. Competition sorted it out, but you brought great options to camp. I don't see the talented value vet yet, but the draft is in a month.

Wozzy said:

When BB had a position to fill, he'd bring a value vet in he knew could play, draft an option, and bring an UDFA in as well. Cover your as.

I don't think for a second he named one a starter until the end of camp/preseason, or didn't assume any of them could start. Competition sorted it out, but you brought great options to camp. I don't see the talented value vet yet, but the draft is in a month.

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Okorator was a starter for PITT

Wozzy said:

When BB had a position to fill, he'd bring a value vet in he knew could play, draft an option, and bring an UDFA in as well. Cover your as.

I don't think for a second he named one a starter until the end of camp/preseason, or didn't assume any of them could start. Competition sorted it out, but you brought great options to camp. I don't see the talented value vet yet, but the draft is in a month.

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mgteich said:

If everyone agreed with this assessment, the world would be somewhat different.
====================
It is NOT at all clear that Maye is worth the #3 pick. There are many who put him below #3 in evaluating the QB's. Even if he is #3, he may be far from the prospect that Williams and Daniels are.

After the combine, pro days, interviews and much analysis, there is a definite different beyond the usual hyping up of a player that was previously rated in 20's or lower (McCarthy, this year).

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Nothing changes as much AFTER the college season is over than QB evaluations. I have read where Maye was rated by some gurus as having the best arm of the three AND the worst, depending on who you read. McCarthy has gone from being a noodle arm, to a rifleman based on a proday.

The mis, and disinformation is rampant. AND you can find a different narrative that suits your ever changing needs every day of the week.

patfanken said:

Nothing changes as much AFTER the college season is over than QB evaluations. I have read where Maye was rated by some gurus as having the best arm of the three AND the worst, depending on who you read. McCarthy has gone from being a noodle arm, to a rifleman based on a proday.

The mis, and disinformation is rampant. AND you can find a different narrative that suits your ever changing needs every day of the week.

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Where has anyone said JJ had a noodle arm?
Even in highschool he had a cannon.

FredFromDartmouth said:

There is a huge risk with taking the QB at 3 that all you star-y eyed draftnicks are in love with. I don't like risk. What if this QB turns into Zack Wilson or Trey Lance or Justin Fields, or some other flop? There are sure to be some flops among the top QB prospects.

Taking a QB at 3 could be a waste of a high first round pick, and it would be a disaster for the Patriots. Not only would they whiff on a QB, but they would miss out on a blue chip LT and WR and an additional high pick next year.

The safe, sensible thing to do is trade back and restock the offense. Next year you will have two first round picks and can maneuver around to get that star QB if need be. He will have someone to throw to and will be protected.

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Tackles in the top 10 have a just as bad or worse success rate than a QB in the top 10.
50% of top 10 QB's became starters, 50% of all first-round picks become starters.
Trade down you are increasing odds with more picks but your still 50/50 with each pick. So, you may very well give up a Franchise QB for 1 good WR?

They would not likely get a high pick in 2025 in trade, they'd likely get 1 in the 20's, which talent wise, equates to a late 2nd round pick in 2024 since 2024 is a much better draft class.

WR's have the highest success rate but most top WR are taken well after the top 10 and you will have the chance to draft one in round 2.

Sanders is the top QB next year, already saying will not play for a cold weather team, he also currently rates below Maye, Daniels and Williams. The drop from Sanders to the next group is big. They will highly likely be unable to get a QB in 2025. Onto QB purgatory Yay!

You have way higher odds of getting a WR or tackle in 2025 or in round 2 or 3 in 2024 than drafting a QB in 2025. 2025 draft class is shaping up as one of the weakest in years.

The odds highly favor drafting QB at 3. It is the most sensible thing and other than taking a WR it is the safest thing as well.
Sit him a year and in 2025 you can have Tackle, WR and QB all set. Otherwise, you won't have a QB for the foreseeable future and thus won't win.

Daniels and Maye are rated too highly to pass on for the most important position in the sport.

FredFromDartmouth said:

There is a huge risk with taking the QB at 3 that all you star-y eyed draftnicks are in love with. I don't like risk. What if this QB turns into Zack Wilson or Trey Lance or Justin Fields, or some other flop? There are sure to be some flops among the top QB prospects.

Taking a QB at 3 could be a waste of a high first round pick, and it would be a disaster for the Patriots. Not only would they whiff on a QB, but they would miss out on a blue chip LT and WR and an additional high pick next year.

The safe, sensible thing to do is trade back and restock the offense. Next year you will have two first round picks and can maneuver around to get that star QB if need be. He will have someone to throw to and will be protected.

The worst case scenario is possible with Maye at 3: He looks OK in the preseason, but unpolished. He rides the bench in the regular season as the Patriots lose game after game with Brisette. All the pundits like the Felger/Jones idiot types are screaming to start Maye. Kraft forces Mayo to start Maye. Maye cannot find an open WR and gets blindsided on his left side and leaves the game on a cart...etc.

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So to reduce risk you want to trade down where it's riskier?