Reactions to “The Dynasty”

StrawHatPatriot said:

No, some of us did

We just got drowned when it made Belichick look bad or if sounded too dramatic to be true

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Exactly. Remember when Slater (or was it McCourty) made the cryptic comment about the locker room a few years ago, a lot of us said there was trouble in paradise. Team Bill called us all paranoid, haters with an agenda. Lol

Team Bill has always lived in denial. Of course they hate the series.

venecol said:

Talk to Pioli, he was there.

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I’m guessing neither one of us know him. Probly don’t run in any of his circles as well.

StrawHatPatriot said:

I'm critical of Bill, but the documentary omitting all of the positive statements is disgusting.

It's a total hit piece.

As I said before, the objective truth would still show Belichick's flaws and how he ended the dynasty, but this documentary is literally trying to paint Belichick as a bad person with very few redeemable traits.

That's just terrible

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That's not accurate. It painted Bill positively for sticking with Brady over Drew. The 2008 season with Cassell (an entire episode) was glowing towards Bill. The 2018 SB made Bill look like a genius.

Kraft looked bad on the Bledsoe stuff. Looked like a ***** on the Putin stuff. Looked weak af on the ending.

The only one not looking bad was Brady, but even he looked a bit weak, on how he got abused by Bill.

Is it a surprise that Bill, the biggest ******* of the 3, came out looking worse? Especially with his demeanor. He made himself look guilty as sin. Terrible look.

Bottom line is the series told us a bunch of behind the scenes information that was not known. It makes everyone's criticism of Wickersham's reports laughable. He was more right than wrong.

I'm glad the truth came out, right from the mouths of the executives, coaches, players, and the Owner, in front of a camera; where we could see their facial expressions.

Poor Team Bill. First, Bill gets fired. Then, he can't land a coaching job. Now, the docu-series exposes all his secrets. It must suck knowing you were wrong all those years.

venecol said:

I replied to those tweets.

I missed the part where they denied saying what they said. Was it not true what they said?

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They like Bill. How can that be true based on your view of events.

venecol said:

It was based on the book that I believe covered the dynasty up to Brady's last season (2019). I haven't read the book so I could be wrong.

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I think this is actually the crux of why it's such a god awful production. IMO more than anything the goal of this series was to try and capture what became the most trending items from the book. And I don't even think they did that well. I think in the end there was maybe two or 3 newish things to chew on and some decent footage and conversation about the stuff that's actually fun (which when they let it play was actually pretty well covered).

VrabelJr said:

That’s also an overstatement. We know Gronk and Brady weren’t. Edelman was, McCourty was, Slater was, and clearly many other players were happy to continue playing for BB.

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There’s a lot more that goes into it though. All 3 of those guys have publicly said there were issues. Edelman has said publicly that Bill is an *******.

Like anything there are pros and cons. They had to put up with Bill being an ******* and a bad atmosphere in the building, but they also had roots now in the area, contracts, family considerations, Bill is a great coach, they like Kraft, teammates, they were winning, etc….

You can stay on the team and still not be entirely happy with how things are going in the building.

venecol said:

That's not accurate. It painted Bill positively for sticking with Brady over Drew. The 2008 season with Cassell (an entire episode) was glowing towards Bill. The 2018 SB made Bill look like a genius.

Kraft looked bad on the Bledsoe stuff. Looked like a ***** on the Putin stuff. Looked weak af on the ending.

The only one not looking bad was Brady, but even he looked a bit weak, on how he got abused by Bill.

Is it a surprise that Bill, the biggest ******* of the 3, came out looking worse? Especially with his demeanor. He made himself look guilty as sin. Terrible look.

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There’s no way to do a true Patriots documentary that doesn’t make Bill look bad on the personal side of things. It would be a lie to make everything look like sunshine and rainbows.

2 things can be true:

1) Bill was genius football coach

2) Bill’s an *******

I think this documentary portrays that. He’s a brilliant football mind but he’s also a prick to deal with. There’s no way Bill was gonna come out smelling like roses. Kraft is taking flack but I give him credit for being honest. He says how he feels and in a lot of these type of shows it’s all a fluff piece. But Kraft to me does come off as very naive in certain cases, especially Hernandez. Brady was the only one who came out looking good, and that’s mostly because he’s such a positive person.

Now that I've digested this strange series here is all that I really have left to share on it:

- I feel foolish for thinking BB could stay if he conceded on having a GM. After watching it's clear that Kraft has loathed him for many years and also BB loathed Kraft. I doubt having an official GM ever even came up.
- It's quite interesting that anything post the 2018-19 season is not covered at all, aside from Brady leaving. That is the true demise of the dynasty after all.
- With comments like "I was going to keep a close eye on my coach" after the Philly SB you have to wonder how much * Bob meddled and not if he meddled in the post-Brady years. We may never know.
- It's both hypocritical and somewhat fitting that in the ultimate sport of "put hard feelings aside and come together" that the three people at the top metaphorically speaking could not sit down and hash things out. You have to wonder if they ever even tried to sit down and have direct conversations about the past.

And finally:

I can tolerate losing, and already have for many years before this current stretch, but if there is anything that can get me to not be a fan of the Patriots it is Robert Kraft. Bob's growing interest in the limelight by hanging out with celebrities he just looks out of place with was always cringeworthy, but I could laugh it off as a rich old man trying to keep his youth.

1. 
   
2. His support of human sex trafficking after the team won the Super Bowl, and just a few seasons removed from making the team wear his deceased wife's initials on their jersey, completely ruined my desire to wear Patriots gear after a Super Bowl victory. I can only imagine how the players feel about that. I wonder why it wasn't covered in the documentary.
3. 
   
4. But now dragging BB's name in some strange attempt to get more credit for the team's success is putting me really ****ing close to tuning this sport out (the NFL's love of sports betting is also helping). Nobody outside of New England knew who he was before BB and Brady showed up and nobody will care who he was when he dies. He should be happy having the hardware without needing to try and convince the world he's some puppet master.

VrabelJr said:

- I feel foolish for thinking BB could stay if he conceded on having a GM. After watching it's clear that Kraft has loathed him for many years and also BB loathed Kraft. I doubt having an official GM ever even came up.

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Of course it wasn't considered. Kraft said so, it wouldn't have worked.

VrabelJr said:

- It's quite interesting that anything post the 2018-19 season is not covered at all, aside from Brady leaving. That is the true demise of the dynasty after all.

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Brady leaving WAS the end of the dynasty. The book covered it through 2019, I believe.

VrabelJr said:

- With comments like "I was going to keep a close eye on my coach" after the Philly SB you have to wonder how much * Bob meddled and not if he meddled in the post-Brady years. We may never know.

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Kraft gave Bill enough rope to hang himself.

VrabelJr said:

- It's both hypocritical and somewhat fitting that in the ultimate sport of "put hard feelings aside and come together" that the three people at the top metaphorically speaking could not sit down and hash things out. You have to wonder if they ever even tried to sit down and have direct conversations about the past.

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Nothing to talk about, when Bill wasn't going to change.

VrabelJr said:

His support of human sex trafficking after the team won the Super Bowl, and just a few seasons removed from making the team wear his deceased wife's initials on their jersey, completely ruined my desire to wear Patriots gear after a Super Bowl victory. I can only imagine how the players feel about that. I wonder why it wasn't covered in the documentary.

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Human sex trafficking? And you complain about this series being overly dramatic? Lol

VrabelJr said:

1. But now dragging BB's name in some strange attempt to get more credit for the team's success is putting me really ****ing close to tuning this sport out (the NFL's love of sports betting is also helping). Nobody outside of New England knew who he was before BB and Brady showed up and nobody will care who he was when he dies. He should be happy having the hardware without needing to try and convince the world he's some puppet master.

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Kraft was in a SB before Bill and Brady.

There's some sort of strange forum bug where venecol can see my posts but I can't see his though I do get alerts when he replies to me. I've verified I don't ignore him. Perhaps this is more of a feature than a bug given how low quality of a thinker he is. But on this occasion I'd like to inform you venecol that paying for sex is supporting human sex trafficking. It works very similar to everything else you pay for. If you pay for milk you support the transportation of milk.

Boomer B said:

2 things can be true:

1) Bill was genius football coach

2) Bill’s an *******

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I feel this is an oversimplification. If Belichick in all personal respects is an ******* would Brady have met with him private for those 15-20 minutes after the Bucs visit to Foxborough in 2021 to hash things out and get emotional in the series talking about the bonds that he will forever have with Bill and his family? Would Gronk have said that he was sad to see him leaving the Patriots and that he wouldn't be where he is today without Belichick helping him to get to the next level and that he thinks it would be cool if Belichick would join their pregame show on Fox? Would Harrison and McCourty have offered the critique of the series for its negative portrayal of Belichick? Would Randy Moss have called out Belichick as a "friend when it wasn't always about football" in his HOF speech? Would Edelman in his podcast have said that he's a fun guy and they had some great conversations when reminiscing about their trip to Fallon following Super Bowl LI (and joked about Belichick being socially awkward in a cool way)?

Of course we can see this in a somewhat cynical way and see this as them just being nice or paying lip service. But it could also very well be that while Belichick can be an absolute ******* when he's being a coach, he's not that bad a person outside of a pure work setting.

PF_SU said:

I feel this is an oversimplification. If Belichick in all personal respects is an ******* would Brady have met with him private for those 15-20 minutes after the Bucs visit to Foxborough in 2021 to hash things out and get emotional in the series talking about the bonds that he will forever have with Bill and his family? Would Gronk have said that he was sad to see him leaving the Patriots and that he wouldn't be where he is today without Belichick helping him to get to the next level and that he thinks it would be cool if Belichick would join their pregame show on Fox? Would Harrison and McCourty have offered the critique of the series for its negative portrayal of Belichick? Would Randy Moss have called out Belichick as a "friend when it wasn't always about football" in his HOF speech? Would Edelman in his podcast have said that he's a fun guy and they had some great conversations when reminiscing about their trip to Fallon following Super Bowl LI (and joked about Belichick being socially awkward in a cool way)?

Of course we can see this in a somewhat cynical way and see this as them just being nice or paying lip service. But it could also very well be that while Belichick can be an absolute ******* when he's being a coach, he's not that bad a person outside of a pure work setting.

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I was obviously generalizing when I wrote he’s an *******, but that is actually what Edelman called him also.

He is an *******, but there’s a lot more to him than that. He’s a brilliant football mind, he helped build a winning culture, he was a great leader of the team for many years, he was a tireless worker, etc…

So yes, even though he was an *******, he helped a lot of these guys like Gronk or Edelman reach their full potential which they are grateful for.

PF_SU said:

I feel this is an oversimplification. If Belichick in all personal respects is an ******* would Brady have met with him private for those 15-20 minutes after the Bucs visit to Foxborough in 2021 to hash things out and get emotional in the series talking about the bonds that he will forever have with Bill and his family? Would Gronk have said that he was sad to see him leaving the Patriots and that he wouldn't be where he is today without Belichick helping him to get to the next level and that he thinks it would be cool if Belichick would join their pregame show on Fox? Would Harrison and McCourty have offered the critique of the series for its negative portrayal of Belichick? Would Randy Moss have called out Belichick as a "friend when it wasn't always about football" in his HOF speech? Would Edelman in his podcast have said that he's a fun guy and they had some great conversations when reminiscing about their trip to Fallon following Super Bowl LI (and joked about Belichick being socially awkward in a cool way)?

Of course we can see this in a somewhat cynical way and see this as them just being nice or paying lip service. But it could also very well be that while Belichick can be an absolute ******* when he's being a coach, he's not that bad a person outside of a pure work setting.

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People are complicated. My hunch is that Bill is not an ******* but has what might be called "******* attributes", and I could see how that might wear on someone who otherwise may have deeply respected or even loved him over time.

I had personal experience with an extreme case of this - long story short, someone who I thought was a friend gradually became more toxic over time, to the point I could not be around her anymore. What I'd say about her now is that I miss her dearly and I hope I never see or hear from her again. I never thought this seeming contradiction was possible but now I know better.

Wax Frog said:

People are complicated. My hunch is that Bill is not an ******* but has what might be called "******* attributes", and I could see how that might wear on someone who otherwise may have deeply respected or even loved him over time.

I had personal experience with an extreme case of this - long story short, someone who I thought was a friend gradually became more toxic over time, to the point I could not be around her anymore. What I'd say about her now is that I miss her dearly and I hope I never see or hear from her again. I never thought that was possible but now I know better.

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I will have more to say after I've watched the series, but in a nutshell: the ONLY way excellence in team sports can be sustained long term is for players to continually be pushed beyond their comfort zone. Most people are incapable of doing this on their own. So guess who becomes "the *******" for making players miserable doing what they don't want to do (and never believed they actually COULD do) en route to fame and fortune.

It doesn't matter about the people being interviewed. It matters how everything was being put together. It matters how the questions are framed. That's what biases do. If he's that much of a Kraft fanboy, his choices as to what to leave in and leave out are suspect. I'm guessing people who don't understand this....have never had to do source analysis before. You have to look at who is in charge of the presentation of the data. If they have a noted bias.... and we've already heard that some people that were interviewed are unhappy in how they were presented, it brings to question what Grazer's decision-making was regarding the project.

BennyBledsoe said:

It doesn't matter about the people being interviewed. It matters how everything was being put together. It matters how the questions are framed. That's what biases do. If he's that much of a Kraft fanboy, his choices as to what to leave in and leave out are suspect. I'm guessing people who don't understand this....have never had to do source analysis before. You have to look at who is in charge of the presentation of the data. If they have a noted bias.... and we've already heard that some people that were interviewed are unhappy in how they were presented, it brings to question what Grazer's decision-making was regarding the project.

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It's simple, Grazer was after the truth behind the relationship between the 3 main characters in the story. He described it as a story about the arch in the relationship between the 3 main players. That's the story he wanted to tell; that despite all the conflicts between them, they still managed to pull off the greatest dynasty in sports history.

Of course he leaned towards the dramatic. This was never going to be a Patriots rah rah super team doc. There's plenty of those already. He went after the human side of the story. That's what sells. Every good story has a villain.

But then that's what it is. A story. It's not proof one way or another. I would rate it as highly dubious as a source. If you're just looking for entertainment, sure. But, evidence? Proof? Look elsewhere.

venecol said:

It's simple, Grazer was after the truth behind the relationship between the 3 main characters in the story. He described it as a story about the arch in the relationship between the 3 main players. That's the story he wanted to tell; that despite all the conflicts between them, they still managed to pull off the greatest dynasty in sports history.

Of course he leaned towards the dramatic. This was never going to be a Patriots rah rah super team doc. There's plenty of those already. He went after the human side of the story. That's what sells. Every good story has a villain.

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They were after the same attention that the book got but they didn't even do that very well. It's your new bible enjoy it.