Reactions to “The Dynasty”

sb1 said:

"We trust our coach is his call" isn't really an endorsement imo. Also wasn't just Amendola. Interesting to hear Browner call it foolish pride and referring to a divided lockerroom.

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sounds like the players are saying they sucked too much to not give up all those yards unless malcolm played. lol

upstater1 said:

LOL, it's the same thing. You wanted the guy fired and he went on to win another Super Bowl, which we wouldn't have won if he was fired!!

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They still had Tom, Gronk, and Edelman. The defense was amazing. They 100% would have won again. I appreciate you defending Bill, but, in his words, players play. They had the horses needed to play with anyone that year. I maintain they won because Tom got everyone to run it back one more year after the Philly loss.

sb1 said:

"We trust our coach is his call" isn't really an endorsement imo. Also wasn't just Amendola. Interesting to hear Browner call it foolish pride and referring to a divided lockerroom.

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What did Slater say? He said of course he would say NO if he was asked would it help the team for Butler to sit. But you could say that about ANY player on the team.

A more interesting question would be, to Slater, should Belichick drop his disciplinary standards prior to Super Bowls because they are so important? That would have been a discussion.

Browner, blah, blah. Butler was not better than Gilmore, McCourty, Hightower, Chung or Elandon Roberts for that matter. Butler, in fact, was a Belichick creation, the same way so many of our DB UDFAs are, they do well in the Patriots system and then go on to sign big contracts elsewhere, where they get burned constantly and do nothing. We've seen it over and over again.

Heck, the play Butler is most famous for is a play he blew in practice and which he was taught to look for and taught about the ways to counter it. Credit Butler for taking to good coaching, but once he was on his own he failed miserably.

h0c2000 said:

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What the heck... I have crawhammer on my ignore list because he posts such asnine things and you go and bypass my ignore list by posting his asinine tweets. Sigh.

ahmed said:

What would you call replacing Brady with Stidham? Broken down Newton was not even part of the plan.

Stupid? Incompetent? Crazy? I was being nice when I blamed his delusion on old age.

Obviously there is an element of tongue in cheek but whatever you want to call it, it is insanity.

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I think he tried for better things all off-season and after nothing else came to fruition he settled on Cam who I think may have had a standing offer while BB tried.

I'll never understand why he passed on 2 QBs in that draft.

HSanders said:

sounds like the players are saying they sucked too much to not give up all those yards unless malcolm played. lol

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Browner wasn't even on the team. He came to the Patriots for veteran minimum and was let go when he asked for more.

He lasted in the league one more year. He had a very short career. By the time of that post, he was done

bresna said:

What the heck... I have crawhammer on my ignore list because he posts such asnine things and you go and bypass my ignore list by posting his asinine tweets. Sigh.

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Craw isn't a member here anymore.

signbabybrady said:

I think he tried for better things all off-season and after nothing else came to fruition he settled on Cam who I think may have had a standing offer while BB tried.

I'll never understand why he passed on 2 QBs in that draft.

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They were never going to find anyone better than Cam. They had no cap room. They decided to take all the dead money and dump it into that year. Personally I thought it was a smart move because it was the 1st Covid year and a lot of players said they wouldn't be playing that year anyway. Might as well take your medicine. But obviously no one was coming to play QB for New England for $1m.

Also find it funny that the same people criticizing Belichick for not having a succession plan also criticize him for HAVING a succession plan earlier (Garoppolo) as though Belichick was supposed to guess that Brady would still be playing at a high level when he joined the Bucs at age 43.

VrabelJr said:

I’m both surprised and unsurprised that some long time members on here that just say “well why didn’t BB say his side during the interviews” don’t understand the dynamic at play. BB might not even know the context of what is being made or when it could be released.

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Ok well now that’s there’s no dynamic in play I’m sure we will hear Bill’s version because he’s always indicated that under that gruff exterior there is an effusive storyteller just dying to get his side of the story out.

Want to talk football? Bill’s your guy. I don’t think any tell-all is coming from him though.

upstater1 said:

What did Slater say? He said of course he would say NO if he was asked would it help the team for Butler to sit. But you could say that about ANY player on the team.

A more interesting question would be, to Slater, should Belichick drop his disciplinary standards prior to Super Bowls because they are so important? That would have been a discussion.

Browner, blah, blah. Butler was not better than Gilmore, McCourty, Hightower, Chung or Elandon Roberts for that matter. Butler, in fact, was a Belichick creation, the same way so many of our DB UDFAs are, they do well in the Patriots system and then go on to sign big contracts elsewhere, where they get burned constantly and do nothing. We've seen it over and over again.

Heck, the play Butler is most famous for is a play he blew in practice and which he was taught to look for and taught about the ways to counter it. Credit Butler for taking to good coaching, but once he was on his own he failed miserably.

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Collins, Hightower and Dennard liked his post so they must have felt the same way.

It's the Super Bowl. For all we knew at the time that was the last SB BB would ever coach. It's not the time to flex your power and send a "message" to anyone. Butler should have played, and we know the guys replacing him weren't up to the task.

If there was a problem with Butler you play him, win the game which they very likely would have, then after the game tell him to clear out his locker when he gets back to Foxboro. It shouldn't have been hard or controversial.

ahmed said:

That was horrendous. Against the worst possible team too. We did not kill the game off when we should have and that came back to hunt us.

Was in a foul mood all day yesterday. The only upside, if that, is potentially 2 less game in a very congested next couple months.

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For Klopp!

upstater1 said:

They were never going to find anyone better than Cam. They had no cap room. They decided to take all the dead money and dump it into that year. Personally I thought it was a smart move because it was the 1st Covid year and a lot of players said they wouldn't be playing that year anyway. Might as well take your medicine. But obviously no one was coming to play QB for New England for $1m.

Also find it funny that the same people criticizing Belichick for not having a succession plan also criticize him for HAVING a succession plan earlier (Garoppolo) as though Belichick was supposed to guess that Brady would still be playing at a high level when he joined the Bucs at age 43.

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If Jimmy was the heir apparent then when it was clear Jimmy wasn't going to be here they should have immediately looked for the next heir.

So Counting the 2017 off-season when they could of traded Jimmy and got a pick trough 2019 the last chance to draft one while Tom was still here there was really only one QB they could have taken that is regretful and that's Lamar. Everyone else either sucked or we couldn't have selected. Stidham was actually one of the better options and so we took him he obviously didn't work like Jimmy or even like Jacoby for that matter.

The 2020 draft is the tough one we had a chance at 2 QBs Love and Hurts.

Then comes 2021 and finally select one.

Basically I say all this to point out that there weren't a lot of succession plans that would of have worked out.

signbabybrady said:

If Jimmy was the heir apparent then when it was clear Jimmy wasn't going to be here they should have immediately looked for the next heir.

So Counting the 2017 off-season when they could of traded Jimmy and got a pick trough 2019 the last chance to draft one while Tom was still here there was really only one QB they could have taken that is regretful and that's Lamar. Everyone else either sucked or we couldn't have selected. Stidham was actually one of the better options and so we took him he obviously didn't work like Jimmy or even like Jacoby for that matter.

The 2020 draft is the tough one we had a chance at 2 QBs Love and Hurts.

Then comes 2021 and finally select one.

Basically I say all this to point out that there weren't a lot of succession plans that would of have worked out.

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Unless the team was roiling in such dysfunction by then that the imperative was drafting more offensive weapons for Brady in order to pump more air into a dying dynasty. And the feeling of Kraft being upset that Belichick showed him a chart with evidence of QB falloff ( at the time, Brady was 38) just reinforces that any move is perceived as pushing Brady out the door.

Then there's the other knock on effect: in retrospect, I wouldn't even take Lamar Jackson over Sony Michel. Not because Sony Michel was a good pick. Not because he's anywhere near the player Lamar is. Solely because Lamar wouldn't have played in 2018 and Sony actually had a good playoff and especially Super Bowl performance. I'm not trading any Super Bowl victories for the future. Nope. Same way I will defend JR Redmond forever.

upstater1 said:

The whole thing was horrendously handled by Kraft.

If he was going to undermine Belichick on Brady's behalf, he should have just fired Belichick.

There's no point alienating your coach when your already alienated QB is already out the door anyway.

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Oh, finally someone put out there this.

You either move on from Brady in 2018 (and keep Garoppolo) or (once JG is gone) you move on from BB in 2019. In 2020 we were without a plan at QB and with an angry coach whose judgment was clearly compromised. The worst possible scenario.

I disagree there is "fog" around this story. It was all pretty clear at the time. Almost everybody (fans) refused to see it. And many refuse to see it still now.

sb1 said:

Collins, Hightower and Dennard liked his post so they must have felt the same way.

It's the Super Bowl. For all we knew at the time that was the last SB BB would ever coach. It's not the time to flex your power and send a "message" to anyone. Butler should have played, and we know the guys replacing him weren't up to the task.

If there was a problem with Butler you play him, win the game which they very likely would have, then after the game tell him to clear out his locker when he gets back to Foxboro. It shouldn't have been hard or controversial.

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I could agree with you and say, especially at the end of his career, Belichick could let his standards down because the ramifications of cutting a guy a break would be lesser in the future.

But again no one ever accounts for how discipline and high standards contributed to team wins.

Think of all the Super Bowl drunken stories, prostitutes, fights and arrests, the night before the very game, some players didn't even show up for the Super Bowl and went missing!

9 Super Bowls and there was never a single instance of a Patriot getting in trouble with the law or being late or anything like that.

Just to make this clear, I'm also critical of Belichick benching Welker for a quarter for some funny remarks he made about rex Ryan. But it was clear to me then that this is Belichick's standard and it would certainly be his standard 7 years later after the Welker benching,

signbabybrady said:

Yet he negotiated all off-season during 2019. It wasn't until August that he demanded the no franchise tag. And at that point he was not signing another deal. Both things are accurate.

If Bill just gave him the 3 year extension he stays by not giving in it forced Brady to make this decision. Then when the next off-season came there was nothing that could be done Kraft and Bill figured they'd get a chance but Brady went to Krafts and said he was not signing another deal with the Patriots.

Kraft even said it when Brady came to his house, we should call Bill and tell him. Calling him to tell him something he already knew wouldn't make sense.

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Thats conjecture.

Kdo5 said:

I need to watch still, curious to see if there is a bias involved. Did Bill participate in the documentary?

It’s never been easier to bag on him so there’s certainly some skepticism involved.

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Honestly better off watching the paint dry on your deck than to see anything Bill said in the documentary as he gave nothing. I wish the documentary was done after Bill left, as I believe he'd be more forthcoming on things. But clearly the 2017-18 season was challenging for many reasons.. the fact this team still went to the superbowl was just so dam impressive where as otherwise they could have imploded.

sb1 said:

Craw isn't a member here anymore.

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Well, I wouldn't know if he is on my ignore list.

And it kinda shows *why* he was on my ignore list if he pushed Ian that far.

RobertWeathers said:

Thats conjecture.

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Yes I'm speculating.

When is that you believe Brady made the final decision?
"I wasn't going to sign another contract even if I wanted to play until 50"

Clearly I believe this coincides with when the no franchise clause was granted. but it's possible the decision was made sooner perhaps even before winning SB53 but I think you can see the obvious reasons why I think these 2 things coincide.

upstater1 said:

We actually gave up picks for Demaryious Thomas, traded for Phillip Dorsett, brought on Josh Gordon, picks for Antonio Brown, a 2nd rounder for Mohamed Sanu, we used our first on N'Keal Harry, and we still had Julian Edelman!

If this is what is deemed as coach doesn't care about giving his QB weapons, I hate to be in Mayo's shoes this year.

Not only did all of these WRs flame out, and Edelman got hurt, but we wasted an incredible amount of resources trying to run it back one last time by bringing in Veterans.

And even worse, we had 4 starters on our offensive line get injured, and as if that wasn't enough, the two backup tackles also got injured.

Sometimes you try things in the NFL and it's just not your year.

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No, it’s because he constantly sought value at the WR position instead of talent. An exception was Cooks a couple years earlier. Actually gave up a first rounder for talent. Not a perfect WR but still had a 1000 yard season for us. Then the when he was coming off his rookie contract they traded Cooks. They got value back in that trade but not talent