Content Post 24 QB Primer Thread

I find this discussion about whether the Patriots believe in the QB they take at 3 to be absolutely meaningless.

If they find a trade partner, like the Vikings, this will mean that the Vikings scouts and personnel guys DO BELIEVE in the guy they are trading up for.

Quite frankly, our scouts and personnel guys are the same people who recommended we take Mac Jones.

I have a LOT more faith in the Vikings' people than the Patriots people.

This is why this whole discussion is meaningless. You're trading with someone who believes you're passing on a guy they really really like. At that point, it's just a question of who is better at making those determinations. As fans, we can't say. Obviously the front office should do what they think is best. But the fact you are trading with someone means someone else thinks they are absolutely wrong.

I'm sure the Tampa Bay Bucs would like to revisit the 2020 decision to pass on Josh Allen and to trade the picks to the Bills. They could've had a couple years of Brady to bring along Allen, who wasn't great until after his 2nd yr anyway

Common sense tells me that the Chargers at 5 who just lost both WRs and don't have a QB need will be the team who trades with Minnesota, the Vikings can get JJ McCarthy who the NFL scouts seem to love more than the fan and the Chargers can get a WR and beef up the OL with those Vikings picks.

If they like JJ McCarthy they have to get infront of the Giants who can't be in the Daniel Jones business much longer, we all know it's most likely going Williams then Maye/Daniels in whatever order at 2/3 then Marvin Harrison Jr at 4 to Arizona then that 5 spot is the sweet spot for a QB hungry team to get McCarthy at a lower cost than the top 3.

I just don't see any of the top 3 teams trading, the Bears getting Caleb seem like a no brainer at this point and the Commanders/Patriots new regimes want to start a new era and what way than with a QB prospect.

Ha..

Mack Herron said:

Click to expand...

So, not even one of the top 10 in passing. I'll pass (pun intended).

Flash said:

A lot of concerns in the media regarding Drake Maye recently, mainly on his footwork and his decision-making in general (lots of WTF moments). I think if we do end up picking Maye, we should sit him for at least half of a season to fix any mechanical issues.

That said, if Daniels goes #2, I am not that against the team trading down a few spots and grabbing JJ McCarthy. Patriots may not gain a lot of draft capital but to me, McCarthy has enough upside to gamble on. Both he and Maye need time behind another QB to develop, whereas Daniels probably needs to start immediately.

All three of Jayden Daniels, Drake Maye, and JJ McCarthy have flaws, so I think taking Daniels/Maye or trading down to grab McCarthy are all viable moves.

I am just sad that we don't have a chance to land Caleb Williams, easily one of the best QB prospects in the last decade.

Click to expand...

The problem with a trade-down, is that there are at least two teams that would be willing to trade-up in front of where the Patriots would end up in that trade-down, and take McCarthy before they could.

Im at the take McCarthy or Maye at 3 camp.
Im hoping it’s McCarthy.

Bourne Again Christian said:

Im at the take McCarthy or Maye at 3 camp.
Im hoping it’s McCarthy.

Click to expand...

I absolutely agree. I'd prefer Maye 1st, but would not be unhappy in the least with McCarthy. I do know that we can NOT trade back and expect to get McCarthy. We need to stay at #3, pick either Maye or McCarthy, and hit it out of the park with the rest of the draft. We also can't trade any pick in the 1st or 2nd round next year, as we will probably be drafting in the top 3 again (if not first overall).

Every QB comes with strengths and critical limitations. Teams pay scores of folks to scout and evaluate players and coach their limitations. Projecting success in the NFL is still a hit or miss proposition. So while we all have our favs, most of us will be wrong. Gotta get a little lucky.

JohnJH said:

So, not even one of the top 10 in passing. I'll pass (pun intended).

Click to expand...

i cant see a scenario where you can trade down further than 5
bears williams
commanders qb
pats/other team qb
cards non qb
chargers non qb
giants qb

and i am 100% sure the vikings try to trade up to the top 3

they were willing to trade 4 first rd picks to the colts for the pick where they selected richardson

patsfanfromoversea said:

i cant see a scenario where you can trade down further than 5
bears williams
commanders qb
pats/other team qb
cards non qb
chargers non qb
giants qb

and i am 100% sure the vikings try to trade up to the top 3

they were willing to trade 4 first rd picks to the colts for the pick where they selected richardson

Click to expand...

If the Chargers want to jump the Cards for Harrison, give them a good deal.

patsfanfromoversea said:

i cant see a scenario where you can trade down further than 5
bears williams
commanders qb
pats/other team qb
cards non qb
chargers non qb
giants qb

and i am 100% sure the vikings try to trade up to the top 3

they were willing to trade 4 first rd picks to the colts for the pick where they selected richardson

Click to expand...

Indeed. The Patriots can't be certain of getting McCarthy if they feel that strongly about him if they trade back. There are too many teams that need a QB besides us who may very well trade in front of us to get McCarthy, and then we're stuck with having to take a lesser talented QB (a bust) just because we too need a QB and blew it by moving back. Although we may very well end up with the 1st overall pick in 2025, the QB class is not as good as this one. Getting a Franchise QB this draft, sitting him for a year, and with the talent acquired from this draft and next year's free agency and draft could put a young QB in his 2nd year (1st year as a starter), into an excellent position to succeed.

upstater1 said:

If they find a trade partner, like the Vikings, this will mean that the Vikings scouts and personnel guys DO BELIEVE in the guy they are trading up for.

Click to expand...

This

Kurt Warner breaks down Drake Maye part 2.

Question that doesn't involve WHO will be our draft QB pick...

How many games does Brissett start ?
How many games does Draft QB start ?

BaconGrundleCandy said:

DeBoer has experience with Penix dating back to Indiana

Click to expand...

Boy, I remember that. They put up gaudy numbers. But Penix kept getting hurt.

jdlboot14 said:

Question that doesn't involve WHO will be our draft QB pick...

How many games does Brissett start ?
How many games does Draft QB start ?

Click to expand...

Brissett starts 16 (assuming he stays healthy behind that line) and the draft QB starts 1.

JohnJH said:

I absolutely agree. I'd prefer Maye 1st, but would not be unhappy in the least with McCarthy. I do know that we can NOT trade back and expect to get McCarthy. We need to stay at #3, pick either Maye or McCarthy, and hit it out of the park with the rest of the draft. We also can't trade any pick in the 1st or 2nd round next year, as we will probably be drafting in the top 3 again (if not first overall).

Click to expand...

Actually we do have a couple of trade-down options, assuming the Pats think McCarthy is on the same/very similar tier as Maye, making it a top-4 QB decision. Assume for this discussion that Caleb and Daniels are taken at 1 & 2.

a. move down to #4, swapping with the Cardinals who pick Harrison. Would have to convince the Cards that we were gonna trade #3 to someone like the Chargers who'd take him. If the Cards really love MH, they have to be worried about this scenario. This would be the best move because Maye and Daniels would still be there for us at #4. Even if AZ surprisingly trades the pick or takes a QB themselves, we're still getting one of the 4 top QB's at #4. And AZ has a ton of draft capital including #27, which I'd love to swap for 34 as part of this deal. We should be able to get to #27 plus get one of their three 3rd rounders.

b. move down to #5, swapping with the Chargers who picks Harrison. AZ would then likely trade down from 4 to a QB needy team who takes Maye or McCarthy, then we take the other one at 5. We could discount the price in this deal (e.g., get their 3rd and 4th) in exchange for assurance that LA must take Harrison and not trade it or take a QB with the #3 pick.

Either of these moves would be extremely desirable for us, where we get to eat our cake and have it too.

I have ultimately decided that I am good with McCarthy at 3. In all likelihood Chicago takes Williams and then Washington takes Maye or Daniels, or Minnesota or another team trades up with Washington and takes Maye or Daniels. Either way, you should be confident McCarthy is there at 3.

If Daniels goes at 2, and you have the option between Maye or McCarthy, I would probably lean towards Maye. McCarthy really needs a full year on the bench, Maye is closer to a finished product but would still benefit from some time on the bench. But McCarthy has also shown the ability to rise to the challenge against the toughest competition so I really like that, Maye did kind of the opposite this year. It would be tough.

If they are putting an emphasis on leadership, which it seems like they are, McCarthy probably gets a big boost over his peers there.