In Retrospect, How Do You View The Collins Trade?

slam · Dec 27, 2016

The thing I realized about the trade return is that the Pats would have been reducing his playing time and thus probably hurting his market. No matter what you or I might think about Collins it seems clear that the Pats thought he was a problem on the field. Would you sign a guy from Belichick's doughouse? If his FA market went down enough he might not garner a third round comp pick in return, so the Pats locked in at least that.

I wonder if you could spot him sulking in locker room videos from the first half of the season?

BTW, congrats to Jamie for his victory not in a Pats uniform in five years!

MrNathanDrake · Dec 28, 2016

Collins will either

a) Go to a team like the Ravens or Seahawks and become a Pro Bowler again.
b) Fade into bolivian

Flash · Dec 28, 2016

Neutral. I'm happy that players like McClellin and Van Noy stepped up after Collins is traded, and if he is going to be a potential locker room cancer I have no problem trading him. Still don't like the return though, but I don't know what is going on behind the scenes so maybe there really isn't any better offers than what Cleveland offered. I don't know, was hoping to get at least a 2nd round pick for Collins. Whatever, very little damage done.

Bill Lee · Dec 28, 2016

MrNathanDrake said:
He was one of those rare players on defense that could take over a game. Remember him against the Texans earlier this year. Against the Colts in the playoffs a couple seasons ago.

BB would rather have consistency every game than a couple games that get taken over.

Flash said:
Still don't like the return though, but I don't know what is going on behind the scenes so maybe there really isn't any better offers than what Cleveland offered. I don't know, was hoping to get at least a 2nd round pick for Collins. Whatever, very little damage done.

Not sure who you would expect to give up a 2nd round pick (which gives you a talented young player with four years of low-priced contract rights) for eight games from Collins.

Note that this deal is officially on the books for a 2018 4th rounder that becomes a 2017 3rd rounder if/when CLE gets awarded a compensatory pick in 2017. Given its a compensatory pick, it will be at the end of the 3rd round. All of this shows that CLE didn't even offer a solid 3rd rounder for Collins, and yet BB still took the deal.

Haley · Dec 28, 2016

While I'm not a fan of how the trade was handled, it does seem like it was the right move for the team. I'm not sure how it could have been better handled but it just seemed the team had the rug ripped out from under them. They seemed as blindsided by this trade as we were and the loss had an emotional impact. They did recover very well in the end but it looked a little sketchy at first.

mosi · Dec 28, 2016

Can someone name a trade or cut that Bill made that ended up hurting the Pats? I am actually trying to think of one but can't but I must be missing someone. Seymour had a good year with the Raiders, right?

Soul_Survivor88 · Dec 28, 2016

mosi said:
Can someone name a trade or cut that Bill made that ended up hurting the Pats? I am actually trying to think of one but can't but I must be missing someone.

The Deion Branch trade in 2006

mosi · Dec 28, 2016

Soul_Survivor88 said:
The Deion Branch trade in 2006

Bingo. Yes, that is it. With Deion, I think 2006 would have been a SB year.

zoostation · Dec 28, 2016

Soul_Survivor88 said:
The Deion Branch trade in 2006

I agree with this. Certainly short at WR but I still think they had enough talent to win it all that year with the team they had. They lost a shootout in the AFCCG after blowing a big lead. The AFCCG WAS the Super Bowl that year. Any of the teams representing the AFC in the playoffs would have beat Chicago (especially the Colts or the Pats).

Deion likely would have been the difference and that still pains me.

Wheelman · Dec 28, 2016

Froob said:
Hard not to like the move now. Van Noy is nowhere near the athlete Collins is (and I'm not sure there is another in the NFL), but he's more disciplined and does his job.

I'm on the fence about that. He lost contain twice in a row against the rats if I remember correctly.

Soul_Survivor88 · Jan 18, 2017

As per PFF, "During his eight games with the Browns, Collins surrendered 27 catches on 30 targets for 235 yards and two touchdowns without getting his hand on a single pass."

Woof!

supafly · Jan 18, 2017

Soul_Survivor88 said:
The Deion Branch trade in 2006

True, although the Jets had a hand in driving up the price (IIRC) on the offer, didn't they? I can't remember the details but I thought that Branch was disgruntled, or Belichick didn't have much of a choice, so he was traded to Seattle.

supafly · Jan 18, 2017

zoostation said:
Any of the teams representing the AFC in the playoffs would have beat Chicago (especially the Colts or the Pats).

Deion likely would have been the difference and that still pains me.

At least you had the next season's SB appearance to make you feel better right?

Yeah, the run from 2005-2015 was one big tease just about every year, with the obvious exception being the 2014 SB win (still worth it in my opinion).

05: loss at DEN. ******** calls. Huge heartbreak
06: blown 21-3 lead in AFCCG at IND
07: helmet catch ruins perfect season
08: Brady gets hurt five min into season, Pats somehow rally together and finish with 11 wins...which isn't enough for a playoff spot
09: #6 seed Ravens punch #3 seed Pats in the mouth from the very first play
10: 14-2 season ruined by rival Jets at home
11: SB rematch with the Giants goes downhill at the end, once again in dramatic fashion
12: 9 point underdog BAL gives Pats 3rd home postseason loss in 4 seasons
13: Pats lose AFCCG to Manning, again
15: A Manning prevents the Pats from either attending or winning a SB for the 5th time

nabwong · Jan 18, 2017

We will be a better D all around and have a better shot at the superbowl without Collins.

nabwong · Jan 18, 2017

nabwong said:
We will be a better D all around and have a better shot at the superbowl without Collins.

This was what I predicted.

TheBostonStraggler · Jan 18, 2017

supafly said:
True, although the Jets had a hand in driving up the price (IIRC) on the offer, didn't they? I can't remember the details but I thought that Branch was disgruntled, or Belichick didn't have much of a choice, so he was traded to Seattle.

Yes.
I wish Branch would have remained, I suspect BB would of, I suspect Branch looking back would have. But as I recall it was a tough situation on both sides.
Branch wanted his $$ due right now. It's hard for me to begrudge a player that thinks in terms of finances as well as thinks "in football I could have a career ending injury any day, certainly an injury that severely lessens my contract $$$ potential. My earning power is high now. may only be now, and I want to take advantage of that right now with very hardball tactics".

For BB if he gives in to, in effect, blackmail to break from his mostly established protocol? Giving monetary value to a player who loudly does this?? It opens the doors for others to possibly do it which could have a long term cost of cap dollar to production structure effect (IMHO this is the Patriots' bread & butter).

Branch was a wanted commodity and the battle lines were so etched in stone it would have been a herculean change of environment for Branch to have remained here. Unfortunate but that's the reality of the business side of football.

Soul_Survivor88 · Jan 18, 2017

supafly said:
At least you had the next season's SB appearance to make you feel better right?

Yeah, the run from 2005-2015 was one big tease just about every year, with the obvious exception being the 2014 SB win (still worth it in my opinion).

05: loss at DEN. ******** calls. Huge heartbreak
06: blown 21-3 lead in AFCCG at IND
07: helmet catch ruins perfect season
08: Brady gets hurt five min into season, Pats somehow rally together and finish with 11 wins...which isn't enough for a playoff spot
09: #6 seed Ravens punch #3 seed Pats in the mouth from the very first play
10: 14-2 season ruined by rival Jets at home
11: SB rematch with the Giants goes downhill at the end, once again in dramatic fashion
12: 9 point underdog BAL gives Pats 3rd home postseason loss in 4 seasons
13: Pats lose AFCCG to Manning, again
15: A Manning prevents the Pats from either attending or winning a SB for the 5th time

That's not even the toughest pill to swallow about last season. What really frustrates me is that we started the season 10-0, but lost back-to-back games twice against four very beatable teams.

The Pats were a missed extra point from still possibly winning that game.... if that AFC title game is played in Foxborough, I'm convinced the Pats would've definately gone on to the Super Bowl

deroc5050 · Jan 18, 2017

In retrospect I guess it worked out fine. The defense clearly got better as the season moved along. Would they have done the same thing with Collins? Or was the defense just playing poor QB's that made them look better than they are?

Obviously Collins did something or was doing things that was detrimental to the team. Bill wouldn't dump a pro bowl player for nothing.

Adam Seward · Jan 18, 2017

Haley said:
While I'm not a fan of how the trade was handled, it does seem like it was the right move for the team. I'm not sure how it could have been better handled but it just seemed the team had the rug ripped out from under them. They seemed as blindsided by this trade as we were and the loss had an emotional impact. They did recover very well in the end but it looked a little sketchy at first.

I think that was the entire point?

convertedpatsfan · Jan 18, 2017

patfanken said:
Whenever a player leaves a team a mythos arises that he sucked in the first place. So here is the thing. Jamie Collins wasn't having a good year during his contract season with the Pats. It was clear he was at an impass with his coaches and he was ready to move on from the Pats. I've mentioned a couple of times over the last 2 years that I was worried Collins didn't like living in NE most of the year. But it went further than that, and included working within the scheme as well.

So THIS season he had only one monster game (Houston), and was seeing his snap count diminish as guys like McClellin, Roberts and Van Noy took snaps from him in various situations. So when BB thought he could get something more than the HOPE they could get a compt 3 pick NEXT year, and wind up getting the an actual comp pick THIS year, he took it.

It'w my belief that BB heard, from his captains, that Collins' dissatisfaction with the coaches had grown audible in the locker room. Now sometimes this isn't much of an issue, but Collins was a quite well liked guy, and good friends with Hightower. So even though by that time, both sides knew that this was going to be his last season, BB worried that the lock room situation would fester. AND if you recall, it during those weeks just before Jamie was trade, that some of us were complaining that the defense didn't seem to have much enthusiasm even after good plays.

Since Collins has been gone the defensive excitement has reached almost a fevor pitch these last 2 weeks. They now seem like they are playing each game with literal joy. Even Hightower has commented on it. It can't be a coincidence.

All that being said, it would be a mistake to say Collins is a bad player. He had great seasons in 2014 and 2015. Sure we can point out individual plays, but the totality of those seasons were highly positive. This year....not so much and he was gone. And it was the right thing to do, though I'm sorry it didn't work out. I'm fairly certain that if hooks up with the right defensive system, he can have a great career. If he just chases the money, then it's anyone's guess.

Great post.

Just wanted to add that we saw BB also bench Sheard and Ryan, who like Collins are upcoming free agents, and they both responded extremely well and better than I could have hoped to be honest. They've both upped their games and become key contributors.

I believe BB must have tried doing similar with Collins as well, but Jamie's response was not what he wanted to see. I think that Buffalo game when he was splitting reps with Roberts was when BB finally gave up on Collins seeing the light, and he was gone shortly after. If he had responded differently to that adversity, he might still be here.

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