Patriots vs Bengals Post-Game Thread

Re: The current state of the 53 man roster…

Ivan said:

Actually what you are doing is pissing and moaning about 3rd and 4th string players who have been pressed into action because of a horrendous run of injuries. And you seem to have this delusion that Belichick was supposed to stock the back end of his roster with pro bowlers and that he was irresponsible in not doing so. They are 4-1 and lost to a team everyone has winning the north and who has been to the play-offs each of the last 2 seasons. they are 4-1 despite having lost a number of there best players and you are complaining they aren't well constructed when in fact they are winning despite those key losses, and that's crap, a team that isn't well constructed never would have weathered this the way they have.

Sorry they haven't met your expectations, maybe you should wait until they get rid of Belichick and bring in someone competent to run the show.

Click to expand...

No that not what I am doing actually, I’m talking about the current state of the 53 man roster which is as I said not constructed well, now we are in agreement that the current state of the roster at least partially because of injuries but that does not change the fact that the current roster is not well constructed – my post was not to discuss the circumstances or methodology of how we arrived at an outcome that does not change the outcome which is as I said a poorly constructed roster.

Are you disagreeing and suggesting that this current 53 man roster is constructed in a way that will make this a great or even a good team Ivan? Or are you disagree with my pointing out that it is not because you’re a diehard Patriots fan and as a diehard Patriots fan when the roster is poorly constructed we are all supposed to ignore the actualities and make no mention of it?

Well Wilfork to the I.R. last week,
Tommy Kelly down today with 2 DT UDFA's replacing them,
Can I get a Armond Armstead...halleluiah,
Chandler Jones becoming invisible,
Awesome defensive effort blown by offense,
Brady playing like he's pouting,
Receivers still not getting it(but trying),
Football Gods putting a medieval injury curse on the players,
Amendola running around at times like someone gave him a "ball-tap" in a mosh pit,
Connoly-Wendell-Mankins doing there part to imitate a sieve
and GRONK Watch persists coming to a stadium near you(check times and listings)............

But hey its all good I saved 15% on my car insurance today switching to Geico......

Seriously though we're 4-1 and considering the aforementioned I'll damn well take it

Re: The current state of the 53 man roster…

Brady6 said:

No that not what I am doing actually, I’m talking about the current state of the 53 man roster which is as I said not constructed well, now we are in agreement that the current state of the roster at least partially because of injuries but that does not change the fact that the current roster is not well constructed – my post was not to discuss the circumstances or methodology of how we arrived at an outcome that does not change the outcome which is as I said a poorly constructed roster.

Are you disagreeing and suggesting that this current 53 man roster is constructed in a way that will make this a great or even a good team Ivan? Or are you disagree with my pointing out that it is not because you’re a diehard Patriots fan and as a diehard Patriots fan when the roster is poorly constructed we are all supposed to ignore the actualities and make no mention of it?

Click to expand...

Actually i disagree completely and do think this is going to be a really good team once they get healthy. Adding Ridley and Vereen to their backfield with a healthy Gronkowski and Amendola will make this much much better offense, and the defense has already shown that they are one of the best units in football, despite losing their best player. They have somehow managed to get off to a 4-1 start despite the worst run of injuries they have endured in years, and they always get better as the season goes on, and i see the critiques here as way way way over the top. no team has prro bowlers in their 3rd and 4th string positions and acting as if every player is supposed to be all world is patently absurd. you are welcome to believe that this is a bad team that isn't going anywhere but imo this team is going to win its division and make a real run in the play-offs. And a year from now all of the changes Belichick has been implementing are really going to take shape and pay off for them for the rest of Brady's career, whioch despite the bleatings of the miserable isn't over.

Deus Irae said:

This crap was gone over last week, and the "go for it" crowd was completely wrong. Without taking context into account, it's useless.

Click to expand...

In other words, you're conceding the argument because you're too ignorant, lazy, muddleheaded, or some combination of all three to even attempt to think about it and so issue flat declarations supported by nothing. Duly noted.

What else can be said fortunately is was not a division loss but the offense was terrible including the play calling with those short passes with 1 timeout left I just want to forget this game and focus on New Orleans..

I do like what I see on the defense and maybe the team can build on that.

rlcarr said:

In other words, you're conceding the argument because you're too ignorant, lazy, muddleheaded, or some combination of all three to even attempt to think about it and so issue flat declarations supported by nothing. Duly noted.

Click to expand...

No....

I'm pointing out that the same argument took place last week, and the "go for it" people made the same mistake last week that they're making this week by ignoring context.

Re: The current state of the 53 man roster…

Ivan said:

Actually i disagree completely and do think this is going to be a really good team once they get healthy. Adding Ridley and Vereen to their backfield with a healthy Gronkowski and Amendola will make this much much better offense, and the defense has already shown that they are one of the best units in football, despite losing their best player. They have somehow managed to get off to a 4-1 start despite the worst run of injuries they have endured in years, and they always get better as the season goes on, and i see the critiques here as way way way over the top. no team has prro bowlers in their 3rd and 4th string positions and acting as if every player is supposed to be all world is patently absurd. you are welcome to believe that this is a bad team that isn't going anywhere but imo this team is going to win its division and make a real run in the play-offs. And a year from now all of the changes Belichick has been implementing are really going to take shape and pay off for them for the rest of Brady's career, whioch despite the bleatings of the miserable isn't over.

Click to expand...

Ivan I am not talking about the “when” I am talking about the now, Vereen is not on the 53 man roster and those players you mentioned are not healthy, the fact is I could just as easily say “when” player X blows out his knee we’re going to be an even worse team, unless you have a crystal ball there is no way to determine how this team will look when the “when” happens. Think of all the posts in the weeks before the Falcons which suggested the defense being this or that “when” Armstead returns then Wilfork goes out an blows his Achilles tendon out and those “when” no longer exist.

Re: The current state of the 53 man roster…

Brady6 said:

Are you disagreeing and suggesting that this current 53 man roster is constructed in a way that will make this a great or even a good team Ivan? Or are you disagree with my pointing out that it is not because you’re a diehard Patriots fan and as a diehard Patriots fan when the roster is poorly constructed we are all supposed to ignore the actualities and make no mention of it?

Click to expand...

I am a diehard Patriots fan, but I'm also a realist and I criticize them when I think they deserve it, and after todays game I think the OL, Brady, the receivers, and MacDaniels all deserve criticism for their performances, but extrapolating that to say Belichick sucks at team building, Brady is done, and they aren't going anywhere is nothing short of hysteria based upon abject negativity. Although i didn't agree with all of belichick's decisons over the offseason i do understand what he is trying to do, which imo is to reset the offense for the remainder of Brady's career by revamping his receiver corps. I hated the decison to let Welker go and still believe it was a mistake, however i do think he believed that he had Gronkowski and Hernadez at TE, Vereen and Ridley at RB, and Amendola to replace Welker, so he thought he had a cushion to bring in the rookies for the future, and unfortunately everything that could go wrong at receiver and the offensive skill positions went wrong, and now they are having to ad lib and manage things to get through the run of injuries, which they are doing with flying colors imo as they are 4-1 and on the cusp of getting Gronkowski back.


Look Brady6, you are entitled to be as negative as you want about this team, but when you try to criticize how they are built you still have to deal with the facts, and the facts are that they are 4-1 despite being riddled with key injuries, so you can see 4-1 as glass half full but i see it as a great spot to be in given everything that has happened to them.

Re: The current state of the 53 man roster…

Ivan said:

Actually i disagree completely and do think this is going to be a really good team once they get healthy. Adding Ridley and Vereen to their backfield with a healthy Gronkowski and Amendola will make this much much better offense, and the defense has already shown that they are one of the best units in football, despite losing their best player. They have somehow managed to get off to a 4-1 start despite the worst run of injuries they have endured in years, and they always get better as the season goes on, and i see the critiques here as way way way over the top. no team has prro bowlers in their 3rd and 4th string positions and acting as if every player is supposed to be all world is patently absurd. you are welcome to believe that this is a bad team that isn't going anywhere but imo this team is going to win its division and make a real run in the play-offs. And a year from now all of the changes Belichick has been implementing are really going to take shape and pay off for them for the rest of Brady's career, whioch despite the bleatings of the miserable isn't over.

Click to expand...

Ivan honestly I love my wife but if she goes to the mall and blows $500 at Bebe on clothes she won’t wear more than once I am going to be disappointed in her and if someone asked me if she made a good decision buying those clothes I am going to say no. You appear to be the type of person who ignores his significant others missteps out of fear or insecurity that pointing out an actuality could be perceived as you not loving the person. For that reason you and I will likely never see eye to eye on something like this, when I post I am referring to a behavior, event or situation and not the entire person or entity as a whole.

My point in short is when I say the current state of the 53 man roster is not prime for success I am not saying I hate the organization or displeased with their 4-1 record – I am secure enough in myself as a fan that I can articulate my concerns or disappointments without having it be a reflection of my overall position as a fan – your omission is the belief that pretending everything is all roses and sunshine makes you a superior fan to those who post frustration with actualities, that my friend fundamentally is no different than thinking he is a better boyfriend for ignoring his girlfriend cheating on him then the guy who broke up with his girlfriend for cheating.

That 3rd and 15 from the Bengals 2 was a killer.

3-15-CIN 2 (1:10) (Shotgun) 14-A.Dalton pass deep left to 82-M.Jones to CIN 30 for 28 yards (32-D.McCourty).

Re: The current state of the 53 man roster…

Brady6 said:

Ivan I am not talking about the “when” I am talking about the now, Vereen is not on the 53 man roster and those players you mentioned are not healthy, the fact is I could just as easily say “when” player X blows out his knee we’re going to be an even worse team, unless you have a crystal ball there is no way to determine how this team will look when the “when” happens. Think of all the posts in the weeks before the Falcons which suggested the defense being this or that “when” Armstead returns then Wilfork goes out an blows his Achilles tendon out and those “when” no longer exist.

Click to expand...

Vereen is one of the players Belichick built this team with and he will be coming back, in the meantime they have to use the subs, and they are doing pretty well getting by with them, which you ignore and substitute your beliefs for. he's 4-1 using subs and rookies, and apparently that isn't good enough for you. imo that's your problem, not Belichick's, as usual he is doing a great job.

Re: The current state of the 53 man roster…

Brady6 said:

I always love when people disagree with something yet they provide nothing in the form or content to justify it, that reflects a truly open minded poster.

There was nothing that failed about my post, the 53 man roster is not constructed well and if you feel otherwise you need to open your eyes. We lost 13 to 6 to a team that was blown out by the Cleveland Browns last week and the fact is if Tom Brady was not the QB of this team it would be hard pressed not to go winless for the season.

Click to expand...

Here's your problem:

Brady6 said:

You can give me grief for this post but let’s not kid ourselves here – this roster is not well constructed right now and any suggestion otherwise is a fail.

Click to expand...

You've already said that "I'm right, and if you argue otherwise you automatically wrong."

That's not a valid argument.

We don't have anyone with really good hands on the field right now. Thompkins likes to slap the ball before he catches it. Everyone else has too high percentage of butterfingers. Hernandez had a lot of drops, Welker had his share, but neither were as bad as everyone on this crew.

We need Gronk.

That said, this game is on our OLine more than anything.

OTOH 4-1, we have a good chance of making the playoffs. It was a game in a downpour. Brady didnt' get his record. That sucks.

As much as I wanted the pats to win I had a bad feeling. And the thing was, this 2 game stretch was like the Texan and SF stretch last year. Almost identical. We are underdogs against the falcons, and we step up and win big. Wilfork got hurt against Atlanta, talib got hurt against the texans. But talib wasn't hurt like wilfork. Then we are all of a sudden a team that can do anything. And we loose by a TD to Cincy like we did SF. It was almost like we were destined to lose like against SF. Gronk also missed both 2 game stretches. I saw to many similarities like that 2 game stretch. And the one that sealed it was when Paul perillo almost said the same thing for SF last year as Cincy this year. He thought the pats would lose to the texans last year and Atlanta this year. But we won. Then almost word for word, he said he got so much hate mail he would predict New England would win the second game of that 2 game stretch. And we ended up losing both games. So to me, this game had a bunch of bad omens.

Sorry for the random post, but it seemed like a game where New England was hurt to much and was against a better team for that game.

From what I took from the game, Dobson needs to he out there. He is a playmaker that I think can determine a game by his production. He almost turned this game around had he found the EZ on the 75yrd pass and then catch the pass on the goal line.

Re: The current state of the 53 man roster…

Brady6 said:

Ivan honestly I love my wife but if she goes to the mall and blows $500 at Bebe on clothes she won’t wear more than once I am going to be disappointed in her and if someone asked me if she made a good decision buying those clothes I am going to say no. You appear to be the type of person who ignores his significant others missteps out of fear or insecurity that pointing out an actuality could be perceived as you not loving the person. For that reason you and I will likely never see eye to eye on something like this, when I post I am referring to a behavior, event or situation and not the entire person or entity as a whole.

My point in short is when I say the current state of the 53 man roster is not prime for success I am not saying I hate the organization or displeased with their 4-1 record – I am secure enough in myself as a fan that I can articulate my concerns or disappointments without having it be a reflection of my overall position as a fan – your omission is the belief that pretending everything is all roses and sunshine makes you a superior fan to those who post frustration with actualities, that my friend fundamentally is no different than thinking he is a better boyfriend for ignoring his girlfriend cheating on him then the guy who broke up with his girlfriend for cheating.

Click to expand...

lmao-holy sh.t do you ever have a high opinion of yourself.

Time for the ignore list.

The person who started this thread, whose "mood" now says 'breezy' (ahem), should be banned:
http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...uld-tie-brees-record-td-streak-vs-saints.html

Remember when it was started the thread title was not 'could', it was 'will', until a mod changed it.

No way a real pats fan started that thread.

I put full karmic blame on that thread, and hope we kill the Saints next week, and that the person who started that cursed thread bet a great deal of money on the game.

I am okay with this loss. The play on Offense was uninspired. Defensive play was inspirational. I do think we have a defense that can win a championship. I haven't seen this spate of injuries to Playmakers in recent years. I will be okay with a loss next week too. What I would like to see though is the defense contain the Saints to under 21 points. I am looking forward to the coming week for some personnel moves and trade for a heavyweight on the defensive line.

Re: The current state of the 53 man roster…

Ivan said:

Vereen is one of the players Belichick built this team with and he will be coming back, in the meantime they have to use the subs, and they are doing pretty well getting by with them, which you ignore and substitute your beliefs for. he's 4-1 using subs and rookies, and apparently that isn't good enough for you. imo that's your problem, not Belichick's, as usual he is doing a great job.

Click to expand...

The thing is Shane Vereen is not on the 53 man roster so he is irrelevant to this discussion; I am talking about the here and now. Talking about week 10 when Vereen returns is putting the kart way before the wagon at this point, between now and then we could suffer a catastrophic injury that would devastate this team , we could acquire Calvin Johnson Jr. and become the most dominate offense in the game again, a conspiracy theory could be uncovered that Aaron Hernandez was framed resulting in his release from jail followed immediately by Belichick and Kraft issuing a public apology for cutting him and announcing signing him to a lifetime contract worth $200 million, or Brady could get sick of yelling at receivers on the field and retire in season, my exaggerating aside the point is over the next 2+ months there are so many things could happen that could sway the state of this roster for better or worse.

I never said it was Belichick, Kraft or anyone else and I also said it was not good enough for me. What I said is the current 53 man roster is poor, I am not blaming anyone there were a ton of circumstance that led to the current state of the roster but it does not mean we ignore the fact that we’re at that state and we do not need to blame someone for us being in this state but we do have to recognize it or at least we should recognize it. Honestly the blame game is extremely immature and childish outlook to have on life in my opinion, things happen and you can’t just ignore them because you don’t have someone to blame.

Re: The current state of the 53 man roster…

The Bengals beat us with the brand of football we would love to play. We had chances to help ourselves (3rd and longs on defense, 3rd down conversions on offense) and we didn't. Hats off to the Bengals for doing it. I haven't seen our offense get handled like that in the regular season in a while.

Re: The current state of the 53 man roster…

Ivan said:

lmao-holy sh.t do you ever have a high opinion of yourself.

Time for the ignore list.

Click to expand...

It is not a high opinion of myself it is a difference in perspective I am not saying mine is better than yours, maybe my view is overconfident which is not better than insecure, I am simply saying you and I are not going to agree on this type of discussion because we are outlook is dramatically different. Like I said though I am not saying I am right and you’re wrong, so please do not take what I wrote to perceive I think I am superior to you or my positions are superior to yours because I do not, I just am recognizing that they are different in this type of context.