Lets rank the AFC East Team's Offenses and Defenses for 2009

NewYorkJets1993 · Jun 7, 2009

Rob0729 said:
I still don't know how the Jets defense is loaded. Other than Revis and Jenkins, I wouldn't say any of the Jets players are close to elite status. Pace and Thomas are decent as a pare, Pace is good and Thomas is decent. The DEs are mediocre with Ellis being good and the other DE a question mark. Rhodes and Harris have regressed and they both only played under Magini and Sutton (well Rhodes played under Edwards, but didn't get good until Mangini came to town). Sheppard has had a wildly inconsistent career and has always struggled against big WRs and the AFC East got some big ones. Scott is good, but not great and there are questions on whether he was part of a system or not.

I think the Jets' talent gets overrated because they got some of the more marquee free agents over the last two free agent classes that were both considered poor in terms of talent. Calvin Pace was sought after last offseason because the options were slim. If Terrell Suggs, Julis Peppers, and Karlos Dansby weren't franchised last year, Pace would have been an afterthough. Bart Scott was the Ravens third choice of their free agent LBs to try to keep eventhough Ray-Ray only has a couple years left. In fact, word was that Scott was Ryan's second choice after Ray-Ray.

The defense is loaded with GOOD players and a few GREAT players. Throw in Rex's system, this will be an ELITE Defense.

Deus Irae · Jun 7, 2009

NewYorkJets1993 said:
The defense is loaded with GOOD players and a few GREAT players. Throw in Rex's system, this will be an ELITE Defense.

Rex' system seems to be "Put in the game's best safety, the games best MLB and an excellent fat guy up front.

I don't see that implemented in New York yet, although Jenkins is very good until he gets tired.

NewYorkJets1993 · Jun 7, 2009

Deus Irae said:
Rex' system seems to be "Put in the game's best safety, the games best MLB and an excellent fat guy up front.

I don't see that implemented in New York yet, although Jenkins is very good until he gets tired.

Jenkins has been better than Ngata when healthy, although he has gotten worn down in the past two years. I read in an article somewhere that Rex plans to have Jenkins fresh for the whole year. The problem with Jenkins last year, is that he was the complete focal point of the offense the whole year, the D lived and died with the performance of Jenkins. Mangini put ALL the load on #77. Sure enough, he got tired, but really, who wouldn't? That & Favre's picks were the reason for the collapse. Ryan will use Jenkins much more efficiently this year. Kerry Rhodes should be much improved this year, because he won't be 30 yards from the LOS every play. Mangini and Sutton again. :violent:

Deus Irae · Jun 7, 2009

NewYorkJets1993 said:
Jenkins has been better than Ngata when healthy, although he has gotten worn down in the past two years. I read in an article somewhere that Rex plans to have Jenkins fresh for the whole year. The problem with Jenkins last year, is that he was the complete focal point of the offense the whole year, the D lived and died with the performance of Jenkins. Mangini put ALL the load on #77. Sure enough, he got tired, but really, who wouldn't? That & Favre's picks were the reason for the collapse. Ryan will use Jenkins much more efficiently this year. Kerry Rhodes should be much improved this year, because he won't be 30 yards from the LOS every play. Mangini and Sutton again. :violent:

Look, it's one thing to drink the koolaid. It's another to swim in it.

NewYorkJets1993 · Jun 7, 2009

Deus Irae said:
Look, it's one thing to drink the koolaid. It's another to swim in it.

We'll see on the field this year.

Deus Irae · Jun 7, 2009

NewYorkJets1993 said:
We'll see on the field this year.

Will we? How nice. Whether we do or not has nothing to do with my point about the koolaid, though.

patsfan13 · Jun 7, 2009

Well last year as posted out in this thread the Pats stastically had the best O & D in terms of pts & yds.

The O should be better with Gaffney being replaced by Galloway, Jordan being replaced with Taylor and Cassel being replaced by Brady.

On the D, The DL should be about the same. I is a question at LB, While TB is clearly declining, Mayo, Guyton, Crable, Redd & Woods should improve. The could be slightly worse, or much better depending on the development of the young LB's. The Backfield will be much better IMO, especially at CB.

The may be the best roster top to bottom since BB has been here.

The Pats will be the best on both sides of the ball once again.

tanked_as_usual · Jun 7, 2009

the jets LB's are totally inept at covering..........and scott is no better than barton in this respect..........

sheppard does not pose an improvement over lowery

I like the pats prospects of a pass rush more than jets prospects of pass coverage

and it all flows downhill from there since the jets offense will likely be one of the lowest scoring ones in the NFL

BradyFTW! · Jun 7, 2009

NewYorkJets1993 said:
Throw in Rex's system, this will be an ELITE Defense.

Reminds me of Bengals fans for the first 3-4 years of the Marvin Lewis regime. When are you geniuses going to realize that the Baltimore defense has always been about superior talent across the board?

Baltimore's defensive line is significantly better than the Jets'. Even Jenkins, the closest thing to an elite D-Lineman that the Jets have, is no Haloti Ngata even before he wears down.

ILB? Ravens have the Jets beat. OLB? Ravens have the Jets beat. S? Ravens have the Jets beat. Literally the only place where the Jets are more talented than the Ravens of 2008 is cornerback. That's it.

BradyFTW! · Jun 7, 2009

NewYorkJets1993 said:
I read in an article somewhere that Rex plans to have Jenkins fresh for the whole year.

Well there you go, then! Why didn't Mangini think of that? All he had to do was just tell Jenkins not to get tired. Jenkins is an out-of-shape nose tackle with (most importantly) bad knees. There's no planning around that; the simple fact is that Jenkins either a) won't be in a ton, and b) when he's not in the defense will be easy to run on. End of story.

BTW, Haloti Ngata is a physical freak. If you think that Jenkins is some huge upgrade over him, then you haven't seen the Ravens play much.

The problem with Jenkins last year, is that he was the complete focal point of the offense the whole year, the D lived and died with the performance of Jenkins. Mangini put ALL the load on #77.

That's called being a nose tackle. You're double-teamed on every play. It's the job description. Saying that anything else should be the case is as asinine as saying that ALL the load is put on QBs because they take almost every snap.

And besides, NTs are two-down players. Hard to argue that someone has ALL of the load on them when they're on the field for maybe 70% of the team's defensive snaps.

Sure enough, he got tired, but really, who wouldn't?

Vince Wilfork, Haloti Ngata, Casey Hampton, Jamal Williams... you know, nose tackles. It's what they do.

Ryan will use Jenkins much more efficiently this year.

How? How will they compensate when he isn't playing? That's a nice sentiment, but they don't exactly have any real alternatives to using Jenkins.

JSn · Jun 7, 2009

I wonder if resting Jenkins will come in the form of a 4-3 formation, giving Gholston something to do?

Rob0729 · Jun 7, 2009

NewYorkJets1993 said:
The defense is loaded with GOOD players and a few GREAT players. Throw in Rex's system, this will be an ELITE Defense.

If you mean elite like above average, there is a chance of that. Going from an average at best defense in 2008 to elite is unlikely. Rex Ryan is not some kind of god. Ryan inherited a great defense from Marvin Lewis. The chances of him recreating it in NY in his first year is unlikely.

Pick_6_Brady · Jun 7, 2009

Delusional Homerism by 80% of you.

I didn't expect anything differently.

It's idiotic to expect anything different than the Pasterisks having the best defense in the league next year.

I mean, even without scrambling the oppositions headsets, stealing signal calls, taping walk throughs, they are still the greatest team to ever play the game

Why would we expect anything different even though this team has the worst LB core in the division...

lol, It's a miracle you guys can actually tolerate each other...

Win a Superbowl without cheating and maybe the rest of the league will respect you...

Until then you're coming off a sub par season, with an aging #1 receiver, a RB who couldn't even keep his job in Jacksonville, an injury prone bust as your backup... Should I continue? Okay...

Your QB just had MAJOR knee surgery and if we've learned anything from the past, it's that he will NEVER be the same again... But keep the delusional optimism up, I love these Homers...

Keep going? Okay, you were trying to sign Jason Taylor for christsake... If that doesn't tell you how bad BB thinks your LB corp is, I don't know what will...

You patched up your secondary with a steroid taking, injury prone, very old Springs... And think a rookie (Chung) can take that group to the next level?

The hypocrisy is mind numbing... If the Jets, Dolphins or Bills were putting this unit on the field, you'd all be laughing... I know we are...

Cheer up guys, you may be challenging your 'lesser' division opponents for off-season championships in the near future...

Someone had to say it...

jmt57 · Jun 7, 2009

Pick_6_Brady said:
Someone had to say it...

I don't know if this thread is 80% homerish; a bit of an exaggeration perhaps? And as opposed to your team's site that is what, 98% homerish?

Okay troll, you've given plenty of opinions on why the Pats won't win the division. Let's hear who you think will win the division - and why - before you get banned.

It's easy to say something negative about anyone of the 32 teams in the NFL. Now I challenge you to get involved in an intelligent and objective discussion about football, and tell us all who you predict will win the division and why.

But if you're just going to spew out false allegations then I think you'll feel a whole lot more comfortable back at your favorite team's site, or join in the unintelligible conversations going on in the comment sections at espn and foxsports.

jmt57 · Jun 7, 2009

Aah, the real reason for returning to this thread: we had heard from a Jets fan but no Dolphins or Bills; Here's an article from NFP about Miami's chances. And no, it isn't slanted in favor of the Pats.

Dolphins Playoffs Chances

Miami won last year because of its attention to detail and its ability to play well in the red zone on defense, making it very hard for the opponent to score touchdowns. Forgot all the defensive yard stats; pay close attention to who plays great defense in the red zone – that’s where you’ll find a team in every game. Miami ranked ninth in points allowed last year because of its red zone performance.

Conversely, when the Dolphins moved the ball into the red zone, they scored touchdowns; they ranked seventh in this area. So they’re good at keeping opponents from scoring along with being very good at finishing drives. This is what makes a team effective.

Rob0729 · Jun 7, 2009

Pick_6_Brady said:
Delusional Homerism by 80% of you.

I didn't expect anything differently.

It's idiotic to expect anything different than the Pasterisks having the best defense in the league next year.

I mean, even without scrambling the oppositions headsets, stealing signal calls, taping walk throughs, they are still the greatest team to ever play the game

Why would we expect anything different even though this team has the worst LB core in the division...

lol, It's a miracle you guys can actually tolerate each other...

Win a Superbowl without cheating and maybe the rest of the league will respect you...

Until then you're coming off a sub par season, with an aging #1 receiver, a RB who couldn't even keep his job in Jacksonville, an injury prone bust as your backup... Should I continue? Okay...

Your QB just had MAJOR knee surgery and if we've learned anything from the past, it's that he will NEVER be the same again... But keep the delusional optimism up, I love these Homers...

Keep going? Okay, you were trying to sign Jason Taylor for christsake... If that doesn't tell you how bad BB thinks your LB corp is, I don't know what will...

You patched up your secondary with a steroid taking, injury prone, very old Springs... And think a rookie (Chung) can take that group to the next level?

The hypocrisy is mind numbing... If the Jets, Dolphins or Bills were putting this unit on the field, you'd all be laughing... I know we are...

Cheer up guys, you may be challenging your 'lesser' division opponents for off-season championships in the near future...

Someone had to say it...

Ofcourse Brady will never be the same again. Look at Carson Palmer. He returns from a worse injury than Brady and throws for a measily 4035 yards and a paltry 28 TDs and is shamed into going to the Pro Bowl. Philip Rivers returns from a similiar ACL tear this past season and only throws for 4,009 yards and 34 TDs. Clearly neither QB were the same. In Rivers' case you can argue he is better. You may need to go back to school and get a better history lesson because history has shown that unless you are a scrambling QB that Brady's injury does not preclude him from coming back as good as ever.

Wost LB corp in the league? Really?!? I admit two of the positions are a bit of a question mark, but they are far from the worst LB corp in the league.

You are definitely an expert on dilusional homer optimism though since you do have to look at yourself in the mirror every day.

BTW, who cares if morons like you respect us or the Pats? Hard to want to earn respect from people too stupid, bitter, and jealous to be taken seriously. But then again, what do you expect from a Jets fan who talks about the Jets winning the division and competiting for a Super Bowl in June and talking about whether they will get a top 15 or a top 10 draft pick in December.

Shouldn't the Jets actually make a serious threat for the division before you trash talk.

jmt57 · Jun 8, 2009

Pick_6_Brady said:
Delusional Homerism by 80% of you.

Delusional Homers or Objective Fans?
Let's take a look at the scorecard so far - and I won't even count the Jet fan. Here is how people here rank/predict the Pats in 2009:

Offense: Pats 1st (7), 2nd (0), 3rd (0), 4th (0)
Defense: Pats 1st (2), 2nd (2), 3rd (3), 4th (0)

Five out of seven people did not rank the Pats 1st in both offense and defense. If ranking the team first in both categories is the definition of being a homer (even if they may very well be correct), that's 29%; that would leave 71% being objective and not 'delusional homers.'

So PatsFans.com is guilty of being about 30% delusional homers. If that number is too high for you, please let us know of another fan forum with a lower number where I can converse. If for some reason you should choose to return, that is about what you can expect. From what I have seen elsewhere, the people here are more objective than on most other sites. And based on the number of fans from other teams that post here, I would also say that fans of other teams feel the same way.

PATSYLICIOUS · Jun 8, 2009

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HEY BRO! WHAT UP? · Jun 8, 2009

Rob0729 said:
If you mean elite like above average, there is a chance of that. Going from an average at best defense in 2008 to elite is unlikely. Rex Ryan is not some kind of god. Ryan inherited a great defense from Marvin Lewis. The chances of him recreating it in NY in his first year is unlikely.

It was actually Mike Nolan's defense who inherited it from Marvin Lewis. But yes, I know what you mean. Jet's fans are delusional when it comes to "talent" on their team. Granted, they have good players at each level of the defense but they don't have "game changing" pass rushers like Terrell Suggs. In fact, take Suggs away from the Ravens and they become an average defense. It all starts up front for guys like Ed Reed to play like Ed Reed.

Grizzafted · Jun 8, 2009

The Dolphins were not just a one hit wonder. They have a good team, and JT coming back makes them AFC contenders, provided he has a little left in the tank. I expect the Pats to win both over the Jets and split with Miami. I think it'll come down to the wire with the two teams, again, and it wouldn't shock me to see the AFCE send two teams to the playoffs.

Lets rank the AFC East Team's Offenses and Defenses for 2009

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