Another Tom Brady "Man in the arena" trailer

[Tunescribe]

Others have brought this up, which has me curious: why is this thing being released now, in mid-season? If I was a diehard Bucs fan (like many of you here), I'd be miffed. Not only does it focus on "Brady the individual," it's Patriots-centric. Timing seems seriously wrong at the very least.

 

[Tottie]

I only saw one episode of the Last Dance but it at least seemed to paint the Bulls GM in a bad light, whereas last night's Man in the Arena was all positive Patriots stuff. You saw nothing about any tension between the players and Belichick, etc. The only villains seemed to be the Rams who were talking trash after the regular season game in 2001. It was fluffy, but Brady would not sit down and do a negative piece on either him or the Patriots.

Ya and it makes it less interesting. Doesn't have to be a 'negative' piece but they went out of their way to overly praise in order to not upset them. We'll see how the other episodes go. It wasn't bad but I really didn't like the Bledsoe stuff.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Others have brought this up, which has me curious: why is thing being released now, in mid-season? If I was a diehard Bucs fan (like many of you here), I'd be miffed. Not only does it focus on "Brady the individual," it's Patriots-centric. Timing seems seriously wrong at the very least.

There are 10 episodes, each featuring one of Brady's super bowl seasons. So the 10th one will be Bucs-centric. Of course, I'm not going to tune into that one. This is why I am interested in the 4th episode which is about SB 42. It's release is timed so that the series ends on January 18, which is going to be in the middle of the Bucs playoff run.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I personally liked the America's Game stuff. You knew the documentary was going to be pro-Brady because Chopra was doing it. Therefore, you're not going to get anything raw like you saw with "The Last Dance." The SB 36 memories were good. You'll probably get less fluffy stuff as the series progresses, like the one on SB 42 or 52 which is going to have a lot more drama and intrigue.

Tom vs Time was definitely raw, and Chopra did that one.

I’m struggling to think of one single insight, interesting add-on, etc. that this episode provided about the 2001 season that wasn’t publicly known. And beyond that, it was even worse due to the attempt to whitewash Bledsoe and retcon Tom’s “humility.”

See, you focus on the Super Bowls in your posts, and that would be great. I’d love to see the entire show dedicated to the championship game. You could get into so much more depth. But I suspect it will follow the same format. The last 5-10 minutes will jam in the Super Bowl summary, reaction, etc. and mostly it will be recap, the media’s take on it, the team’s reaction to it, and finally, the last sliver will be Brady’s own take, which will probably be obvious.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Tom vs Time was definitely raw, and Chopra did that one.

I’m struggling to think of one single insight, interesting add-on, etc. that this episode provided about the 2001 season that wasn’t publicly known. And beyond that, it was even worse due to the attempt to whitewash Bledsoe and retcon Tom’s “humility.”

See, you focus on the Super Bowls in your posts, and that would be great. I’d love to see the entire show dedicated to the championship game. You could get into so much more depth. But I suspect it will follow the same format. The last 5-10 minutes will jam in the Super Bowl summary, reaction, etc. and mostly it will be recap, the media’s take on it, the team’s reaction to it, and finally, the last sliver will be Brady’s own take, which will probably be obvious.

The Tom vs Time was filmed contemporaneously with the 2018 season, right? Meaning the camera just followed Brady around everywhere, so it appeared more real. Whereas Man in the Arena appears to be just a recollection of the super bowl years.

One insight that I gleaned was the Tuck Rule game and that Brady admitted he thought it was a fumble. Previously, Brady didn't give his take.

 

[Tunescribe]

One insight that I gleaned was the Tuck Rule game and that Brady admitted he thought it was a fumble. Previously, Brady didn't give his take.

That was a mistake on his part, it wrecks the mythology. Whether he privately believes otherwise, his take always should be "OF COURSE it was an imcomplete pass!"

 

[amfootball]

Tom vs Time was definitely raw, and Chopra did that one.

I’m struggling to think of one single insight, interesting add-on, etc. that this episode provided about the 2001 season that wasn’t publicly known. And beyond that, it was even worse due to the attempt to whitewash Bledsoe and retcon Tom’s “humility.”

See, you focus on the Super Bowls in your posts, and that would be great. I’d love to see the entire show dedicated to the championship game. You could get into so much more depth. But I suspect it will follow the same format. The last 5-10 minutes will jam in the Super Bowl summary, reaction, etc. and mostly it will be recap, the media’s take on it, the team’s reaction to it, and finally, the last sliver will be Brady’s own take, which will probably be obvious.

Tom vs Time was one of the best sports documentaries I have ever seen precisely because Chopra did it and Tom gave him full access to his life. It was raw, insightful and entertaining.

Honestly, I had zero expectations for an ESPN production and somewhat surprised Brady decided to have them do it. Perhaps it was an olive branch by them given how they treated him during DG or they just realized that Brady is an unbelievable meal ticket given his historic career. Probably a little of both I would imagine. I also wonder if Gisele urged Brady to do it given she is the most successful super model ever and understands what he needs to do now to set himself up post-career.

One thing that is extremely interesting to me is Brady has completely made over his image publicly since leaving us. Even before he won last year's SB, he became a different animal with the media, spoke his mind, became much more honest and it endeared him to the fans. If you go on rival websites now it is amazing how they all talk about him. When he won the SB in the fashion he did, his status elevated even higher as folks liked the fact that he won without Bill and kind of "stuck it to the Pats."

Really almost all of the hostility toward Brady his entire career has been because of Bill's cactus like relationship with the media and the league. Brady really, really paid for that and I don't think that is something that gets analyzed nearly enough. Even Florio was defending him the other day when Arians backpaddled on blaming both picks on Tom. Kellerman speaks of him now with divine reverence and adulation. Nick Wright appears to be voting for him to win league MVP. It is pretty amazing when you kind of tie it all together. But honestly, as much as it pains me to type this as I wanted the guy so badly to retire a Patriot, the best thing he ever did on both a professional level and perception level was leave us and win with Tampa.

 

[tom444]

.....................................snip....................................

Really almost all of the hostility toward Brady his entire career has been because of Bill's cactus like relationship with the media and the league. Brady really, really paid for that and I don't think that is something that gets analyzed nearly enough. Even Florio was defending him the other day when Arians backpaddled on blaming both picks on Tom. Kellerman speaks of him now with divine reverence and adulation. Nick Wright appears to be voting for him to win league MVP. It is pretty amazing when you kind of tie it all together. But honestly, as much as it pains me to type this as I wanted the guy so badly to retire a Patriot, the best thing he ever did on both a professional level and perception level was leave us and win with Tampa.

Well, not all the dislike of the Patriots during their 9 SB run was due to BB. Some of it certainly was the automatic dislike for teams that win that much. Brady paid heavily for that also.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Tom vs Time was one of the best sports documentaries I have ever seen precisely because Chopra did it and Tom gave him full access to his life. It was raw, insightful and entertaining.

Honestly, I had zero expectations for an ESPN production and somewhat surprised Brady decided to have them do it. Perhaps it was an olive branch by them given how they treated him during DG or they just realized that Brady is an unbelievable meal ticket given his historic career. Probably a little of both I would imagine. I also wonder if Gisele urged Brady to do it given she is the most successful super model ever and understands what he needs to do now to set himself up post-career.

One thing that is extremely interesting to me is Brady has completely made over his image publicly since leaving us. Even before he won last year's SB, he became a different animal with the media, spoke his mind, became much more honest and it endeared him to the fans. If you go on rival websites now it is amazing how they all talk about him. When he won the SB in the fashion he did, his status elevated even higher as folks liked the fact that he won without Bill and kind of "stuck it to the Pats."

Really almost all of the hostility toward Brady his entire career has been because of Bill's cactus like relationship with the media and the league. Brady really, really paid for that and I don't think that is something that gets analyzed nearly enough. Even Florio was defending him the other day when Arians backpaddled on blaming both picks on Tom. Kellerman speaks of him now with divine reverence and adulation. Nick Wright appears to be voting for him to win league MVP. It is pretty amazing when you kind of tie it all together. But honestly, as much as it pains me to type this as I wanted the guy so badly to retire a Patriot, the best thing he ever did on both a professional level and perception level was leave us and win with Tampa.

I think the hate was more NE than anything. Almost immediately after Brady left people started "liking" him, which in reality it means they've always liked him and not the team he played for. If Tampa wins 6 super bowls, they are going to get as much hate.

 

[amfootball]

Well, not all the dislike of the Patriots during their 9 SB run was due to BB. Some of it certainly was the automatic dislike for teams that win that much. Brady paid heavily for that also.

That's true. But I think what made the Pats really dislikeable is that our winning was portrayed by Kraft and Bill as a culture and a system that separated us from the other good teams. Both of them were always very eager, especially Kraft to say we do things a different way, the right way, the Patriot Way. I think that really rubbed fanbases the wrong way as well as our own players who never really got enough credit for the winning from a perception stand point. The cheating accusations didn't help either.

 

[amfootball]

I think the hate was more NE than anything. Almost immediately after Brady left people started "liking" him, which in reality it means they've always liked him and not the team he played for. If Tampa wins 6 super bowls, they are going to get as much hate.

If you read other fanbases websites, that is not what they say at all. They say they like Brady now specifically because he left the Pats. He was easily the most hated man in football for over a decade and then poof, he leaves, wins in Tampa, changes his persona 180 because he is out from under Bill's thumb and he is likeable, even revered.

 

[tom444]

That's true. But I think what made the Pats really dislikeable is that our winning was portrayed by Kraft and Bill as a culture and a system that separated us from the other good teams. Both of them were always very eager, especially Kraft to say we do things a different way, the right way, the Patriot Way. I think that really rubbed fanbases the wrong way as well as our own players who never really got enough credit for the winning from a perception stand point. The cheating accusations didn't help either.

I'll have to think about that. You're right IMO that there was a perceived, and actual probably, separation between the Patriots and the other teams in the league. I would say there still is. We are still known for having a winning culture.

 

[amfootball]

I'll have to think about that. You're right that there was a perceived, and actual probably, separation between the Patriots and the other teams in the league. I would say there still is. We are still known as having a winning culture.

If you think about the "why" behind both Spygate and DG, it is pretty obvious that the other owners were getting pretty PO'd at the hubris of Kraft/Bill. On top, Bill has a terrible relationship with the league and media which really, really hurt us in both fiascos IMO. In reading the excerpts from Wickersham's book, it is pretty much universally agreed by everyone, including Kraft himself that Bill is a royal A-hole. We read that and chuckle and say but he's our A-hole and he wins but that perception plays much differently with the other owners and the media and that has cost us and Brady too.

We rail against Felger and Mazz for rooting for Bill to fail and other media nitwits but do you blame them? Never has there been a coach with more hubris "I won't even bother to answer your question because your dumb" then Bill. So much of the animosity toward the guy has been created by him. I have often said this to friends but the last 20 years should have been the biggest joy ride of our lives as fans but Bill was always up there dour and serious "on to the next game", "on to the next season" that it took so much fun out of it. Watching Tampa and its fans and coaches and mgmt really celebrate the heck out of their championship and seeing Tom get drunk on his boat and playfully toss the Lombardi to his TE, made me wonder why we could not enjoy our success more and that was really due to Bill and this culture.

I mean there is no question that what Bill is doing is successful but it has big costs too.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

If you read other fanbases websites, that is not what they say at all. They say they like Brady now specifically because he left the Pats. He was easily the most hated man in football for over a decade and then poof, he leaves, wins in Tampa, changes his persona 180 because he is out from under Bill's thumb and he is likeable, even revered.

Exactly. I think Bill was a part of it, but the bigger reason was him being associated with a team that won so much.

 

[tom444]

If you think about the "why" behind both Spygate and DG, it is pretty obvious that the other owners were getting pretty PO'd at the hubris of Kraft/Bill. On top, Bill has a terrible relationship with the league and media which really, really hurt us in both fiascos IMO. In reading the excerpts from Wickersham's book, it is pretty much universally agreed by everyone, including Kraft himself that Bill is a royal A-hole. We read that and chuckle and say but he's our A-hole and he wins but that perception plays much differently with the other owners and the media and that has cost us and Brady too.

We rail against Felger and Mazz for rooting for Bill to fail and other media nitwits but do you blame them? Never has there been a coach with more hubris "I won't even bother to answer your question because your dumb" then Bill. So much of the animosity toward the guy has been created by him. I have often said this to friends but the last 20 years should have been the biggest joy ride of our lives as fans but Bill was always up there dour and serious "on to the next game", "on to the next season" that it took so much fun out of it. Watching Tampa and its fans and coaches and mgmt really celebrate the heck out of their championship and seeing Tom get drunk on his boat and playfully toss the Lombardi to his TE, made me wonder why we could not enjoy our success more and that was really due to Bill and this culture.

I mean there is no question that what Bill is doing is successful but it has big costs too.

Well, I refuse to hold anything against Bill. He's too good. Is he odd/pain in the ass, sure, but he's so good at what he does I just can't hold it against him.

 

[amfootball]

Well, I refuse to hold anything against Bill. He's too good. Is he odd/pain in the ass, sure, but he's so good at what he does I just can't hold it against him.

I understand that. I love the guy too for all the winning. I was more just adding context to Brady discussion on his perception post-Patriots and this doc series on ESPN.

 

[Pats1971]

Exactly. I think Bill was a part of it, but the bigger reason was him being associated with a team that won so much.

A lot of the people that didnt like him still dont, because he wins too much.

 

[Guts]

I like the doc so far. The only thing I didn't know or don't remember was that Brady admitted being intimidated in the AFCCG vs Pitt

 

[1960Pats]

Some people just stay too long at the party.

Tom, time to go home.

Tom is still bringing the best music to the party and can dance circles around everyone else. I think you had too much to drink at the party and maybe it's time for you to go home instead.

 

[sb1]

The Tom vs Time was filmed contemporaneously with the 2018 season, right? Meaning the camera just followed Brady around everywhere, so it appeared more real. Whereas Man in the Arena appears to be just a recollection of the super bowl years.

One insight that I gleaned was the Tuck Rule game and that Brady admitted he thought it was a fumble. Previously, Brady didn't give his take.

He's admitted it before. To be fair he did fumble so it would be silly to pretend otherwise when we all saw it.