BGC 2018 DRAFT QB THREAD

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I enjoy reading your articles because of the way you articulate and give in-depth analysis on the prospects: This is one time when I had a VERY minor disagreement with you......We need some beer toasting emoticons on the message board!!!

Appreciate it man.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Just the facts ser .... "But he's a running QB" ... Just the facts ser ....





I'm amazed at how many draftniks & football fans are clueless about this player. The idea that he isn't a pocket passer 1st & 2nd is laughable. That he takes off after the first read or doesn't go through his progressions is just glass. 6-12 months you could argue ignorance & "I haven't watched him". Now, you just have no idea what your talking about.

 

[mgteich]

Tough question. I think Chubb is really technically sound. He would start right away and be our best edge presence since McGinest (yes, I think he's a more well rounded player than Chandler Jones). LJ, if he hits his ceiling, would be scintillating here. I'd probably prefer Jackson and Lewis to Chubb and White, when you phrase it like that.

We've come a long way from a team that appreciates defense. We've been look for another McGinist since, well since McGinist left. I think that Chubb is clearly worth our 2 low first rounders.

 

[manxman2601]

Kyle Lauletta scouting report from Optimum Scouting. Has won me over a little.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Kyle Lauletta scouting report from Optimum Scouting. Has won me over a little.

They do a great job. I don't read reports or mocks until late (eariler for mocks this year) April for obvious reasons. I read one the other day on Lamar Jackson that offered 0 insight into the player. It was pretty bad. Honestly no insight just ramblings lol.


I feel like Lauletta is a guy that's an easy eval & breakdown. Athletic, quick release, accuracy & velocity to work from line - 25. He can def hit those calculated shots downfield. I thought I captured him pretty well somewhere in this thread lol.


I like comp's too. I see more Alex Smith than anyone & a little Pennington. Two guys i actually like a lot. Pre surgery Chad was gem to watch. Awhhh man anyone that hasn't check out Chad & Randy late 90's. Beautiful.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Asked Marcus about these & he said it was the "average velocity". I'm assuming out of the combine/pro day throws & not the actual "fastest" a player can throw.
Makes sense since Mahomes & Allen both specifically showed off their cannons for precisely that reason.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

Fascinating look at Rosen. I share many of his concerns:

 

[manxman2601]

Fascinating look at Rosen. I share many of his concerns:

To be fair, he did have Kolton Miller protecting his blindside

Those numbers are concerning. The more I consider it, the more I’m in on Lauletta and Falk. The lower cost means that Even ifthey amount to nothing more than backups for the next four years the pick would almost be worth it and they can keep searching for the Brady replacement.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

To be fair, he did have Kolton Miller protecting his blindside

Those numbers are concerning. The more I consider it, the more I’m in on Lauletta and Falk. The lower cost means that Even ifthey amount to nothing more than backups for the next four years the pick would almost be worth it and they can keep searching for the Brady replacement.

Har har.

Seriously, though, when I watch Rosen, I see pretty solid movement within the pocket -- he can slide, step up, roll out if needed -- but his accuracy when he throws off platform is horrendous. He throws a lot of passes into the dirt, or wildly out of bounds, when he's forced to move off his landmarks. Keep him clean and in the pocket, and he's a very good thrower. There's no denying that. He's probably the most "pro ready" due to his responsibilities in his scheme and his polish as a timing-based pocket passer.

Unfortunately, I just don't see a great quarterback; I heard someone recently compare him to an Andy Dalton or average Matt Ryan (before his MVP season), and I think that's pretty accurate. Put him on a good team with a strong OL and diverse weapons, and I think he'll do fine. Put him on a team that needs a great player to transcend their deficiencies, and I think he'll struggle considerably. Whichever team takes him needs a clear plan to develop him. If he sits a few years like Rodgers, he could be exceptional, but he really requires strong coaching/environment.

In other words, if he does come here, there's a lot of reason for hope down the line. Just don't expect anything soon. Cautious optimism, but with awareness of his current flaws.

 

[sircole]

To be fair, he did have Kolton Miller protecting his blindside

Those numbers are concerning. The more I consider it, the more I’m in on Lauletta and Falk. The lower cost means that Even ifthey amount to nothing more than backups for the next four years the pick would almost be worth it and they can keep searching for the Brady replacement.

Yeah, I also agree with this strategy. Although I'm higher up on Mike White rather than Lauletta or Faulk, I wouldn't have any problem with those two if we draft them.

The reason I'm so drawn to Mike White is from the rapid development he has shown at QB.

Because baseball was his first love, he only played one year of high school varsity football. But when he did start, he went 13-0 and won a state championship. Willie Taggart quickly snapped him up at USF and played him as a frosh/soph with bad results.

White was an inexperienced quarterback when he got to USF. His high school didn’t have a junior varsity football team and he only started one year of varsity ball.

Taggart – the former WKU quarterback, offensive assistant and head coach – put the 18-year-old White out on the field as a true freshman. Things didn’t go well.

White played six games in 2013 as a freshman for the Bulls, throwing three touchdowns against nine interceptions.

“Going through the fire at 18 years old kind of makes a man out of you,” White said. “My first start as a freshman, 18 years old, was my 14th-ever football game.

“I made a lot of mistakes and learned a lot from them. I think that’s what makes me the kind of player I am today. I’ve made all the necessary mistakes you’ve got to learn from and gain experience from.”

White improved somewhat as a sophomore in 2014, finishing with 1,639 yards, eight TDs and seven INTs. Taggart changed the offense the following offseason to a system that incorporated more quarterback running.

WKU QB White took unlikely path to Hilltopper stardom

When he knew his style wasn't a fit, he took a personal reflection of himself and made a decision to attend WKU because of Petrino/Brom's offense, which is also the Erhardt-Perkins system, and willing to sit behind WKU's star QB, Brandon Doughty.

It was his meteoric jump in accuracy and overall QB skills that, to me, showed he was putting in much work and effort to become a better QB.



I actually think Jeff Brohm's leaving and Mike Sanford becoming the new head coach helped him because he proved he wasn't a system QB: just a good QB.

Now Sanford's WKU team wasn't anywhere near the quality of Brohm's, to the furor of fans on WKU's message board, but Mike persevered with no running game (or O-line) and was able to guide them to a bowl with surrounding cast he had.



Rushing Offense | FBS Football Statistics - NCAA.com

When he played against GSU in the Cure Bowl, I was surprised that he even made it through the whole game. WKU's O-line was so bad that it made our average D-line look like the resurrection of the Doomsday D.

Yet, he kept getting up and kept trying to attack our weak points. We had good corners in Chandon Sullivan and Jerome Smith, but our LBs were slow and awful in coverage and our safeties were abysmal. What sometimes appears he's holding the ball too long, he was trying to find those spots but many of his WRs, other than TE Yelder, weren't getting open, another common theme throughout WKU's season. He was a one-man offense and was keeping them competitive in the game until the final minutes.

Mike White tossed TD passes of 54 and 4 yards to Deon Yelder, finishing with 351 yards -- the senior's eighth consecutive 300-yard game passing -- for Western Kentucky (6-7). Yelder had five receptions for 112 yards for the Hilltoppers.

Western Kentucky vs. Georgia State - Game Recap - December 16, 2017 - ESPN



Yeah, he has the natural arm tools but his footwork, pocket awareness and ball security needs to get better; it's his intangibles of leadership through adversity, making teammates better (TE Deon Yelder did not even have a single catch his Jr. year and now he's an NFL prospect) and nuances for the QB position are the reasons why he's rising up the draft boards.



White shows off arm Friday at Hilltoppers' Pro Day

 

[manxman2601]

Har har.

Seriously, though, when I watch Rosen, I see pretty solid movement within the pocket -- he can slide, step up, roll out if needed -- but his accuracy when he throws off platform is horrendous. He throws a lot of passes into the dirt, or wildly out of bounds, when he's forced to move off his landmarks. Keep him clean and in the pocket, and he's a very good thrower. There's no denying that. He's probably the most "pro ready" due to his responsibilities in his scheme and his polish as a timing-based pocket passer.

Unfortunately, I just don't see a great quarterback; I heard someone recently compare him to an Andy Dalton or average Matt Ryan (before his MVP season), and I think that's pretty accurate. Put him on a good team with a strong OL and diverse weapons, and I think he'll do fine. Put him on a team that needs a great player to transcend their deficiencies, and I think he'll struggle considerably. Whichever team takes him needs a clear plan to develop him. If he sits a few years like Rodgers, he could be exceptional, but he really requires strong coaching/environment.

In other words, if he does come here, there's a lot of reason for hope down the line. Just don't expect anything soon. Cautious optimism, but with awareness of his current flaws.

I understand but I think we’re a pocket passing orientated team because of Brady so any transition wouldn’t be too difficult. Of course, it’s possible McDaniels might want to run a different offense sans Brady. But in terms of value, Lauletta in a Jimmy G draft spot makes so much sense. Yes he has a pretty severe limitation with his weaker deep ball but the Patriots survived for years like that.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

I understand but I think we’re a pocket passing orientated team because of Brady so any transition wouldn’t be too difficult. Of course, it’s possible McDaniels might want to run a different offense sans Brady. But in terms of value, Lauletta in a Jimmy G draft spot makes so much sense. Yes he has a pretty severe limitation with his weaker deep ball but the Patriots survived for years like that.

Don't disagree, but . . . Brady's brilliance is often in his ability to step up in the pocket, or evade a rusher, and still put the ball on the money. Rosen goes from competent looking to wildly inaccurate in that same scenario. It's irksome when watching him.

 

[manxman2601]

Don't disagree, but . . . Brady's brilliance is often in his ability to step up in the pocket, or evade a rusher, and still put the ball on the money. Rosen goes from competent looking to wildly inaccurate in that same scenario. It's irksome when watching him.

Worrisome for sure. The optimum scouting guy who’s name has just escaped me (Eric Galko?) said no-one has looked at the QB position in terms of depth as much as the Patriots. And on a podcast I listened to, Ben Volin pointed out that McDaniels hasn’t been to any pro days and suggested he’s been involved in a special project to study the QBs. That makes some sense. I think whichever QB we draft, we’ll have really put the work in on them and I’d feel fairly confident. Considering the work we’ve done on QBs, this might be the one team we don’t wait for the board to come to us.

 

[manxman2601]

Greg Cossell is a fan of Rosen.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Yeah, I also agree with this strategy. Although I'm higher up on Mike White rather than Lauletta or Faulk, I wouldn't have any problem with those two if we draft them.

The reason I'm so drawn to Mike White is from the rapid development he has shown at QB.

Because baseball was his first love, he only played one year of high school varsity football. But when he did start, he went 13-0 and won a state championship. Willie Taggart quickly snapped him up at USF and played him as a frosh/soph with bad results.



WKU QB White took unlikely path to Hilltopper stardom

When he knew his style wasn't a fit, he took a personal reflection of himself and made a decision to attend WKU because of Petrino/Brom's offense, which is also the Erhardt-Perkins system, and willing to sit behind WKU's star QB, Brandon Doughty.

It was his meteoric jump in accuracy and overall QB skills that, to me, showed he was putting in much work and effort to become a better QB.

View attachment 20127

I actually think Jeff Brohm's leaving and Mike Sanford becoming the new head coach helped him because he proved he wasn't a system QB: just a good QB.

Now Sanford's WKU team wasn't anywhere near the quality of Brohm's, to the furor of fans on WKU's message board, but Mike persevered with no running game (or O-line) and was able to guide them to a bowl with surrounding cast he had.

View attachment 20128

Rushing Offense | FBS Football Statistics - NCAA.com

When he played against GSU in the Cure Bowl, I was surprised that he even made it through the whole game. WKU's O-line was so bad that it made our average D-line look like the resurrection of the Doomsday D.

Yet, he kept getting up and kept trying to attack our weak points. We had good corners in Chandon Sullivan and Jerome Smith, but our LBs were slow and awful in coverage and our safeties were abysmal. What sometimes appears he's holding the ball too long, he was trying to find those spots but many of his WRs, other than TE Yelder, weren't getting open, another common theme throughout WKU's season. He was a one-man offense and was keeping them competitive in the game until the final minutes.



Western Kentucky vs. Georgia State - Game Recap - December 16, 2017 - ESPN



Yeah, he has the natural arm tools but his footwork, pocket awareness and ball security needs to get better; it's his intangibles of leadership through adversity, making teammates better (TE Deon Yelder did not even have a single catch his Jr. year and now he's an NFL prospect) and nuances for the QB position are the reasons why he's rising up the draft boards.



White shows off arm Friday at Hilltoppers' Pro Day

This is exactly why I'm in on him as well. Excelling in different systems. Late bloomer. Legit arm talent. I went over this in this report but I like a guy that can admit he might not have it all together & recognzed he had to work harder (Visiting WKU)

Big fan. He's closest to Brady from an athletic standpoint as well.

 

[manxman2601]

Big fan. He's closest to Brady from an athletic standpoint as well.

That’s not a recommendation.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Fascinating look at Rosen. I share many of his concerns:

I like him a lot but don't love him although he graded as a 1st in my scale. He's a safe pick imo. I think Bradford is a great comp for him. You give him a pocket, time & weapons & he'll look great. Putting himself in a better position, making his teammates better & upside, I don't see that guy.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

That’s not a recommendation.

lol in terms of #'s/measurables. Not 35 yo who moves like 65 yo.

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

Har har.

Seriously, though, when I watch Rosen, I see pretty solid movement within the pocket -- he can slide, step up, roll out if needed -- but his accuracy when he throws off platform is horrendous. He throws a lot of passes into the dirt, or wildly out of bounds, when he's forced to move off his landmarks. Keep him clean and in the pocket, and he's a very good thrower. There's no denying that. He's probably the most "pro ready" due to his responsibilities in his scheme and his polish as a timing-based pocket passer.

Unfortunately, I just don't see a great quarterback; I heard someone recently compare him to an Andy Dalton or average Matt Ryan (before his MVP season), and I think that's pretty accurate. Put him on a good team with a strong OL and diverse weapons, and I think he'll do fine. Put him on a team that needs a great player to transcend their deficiencies, and I think he'll struggle considerably. Whichever team takes him needs a clear plan to develop him. If he sits a few years like Rodgers, he could be exceptional, but he really requires strong coaching/environment.

In other words, if he does come here, there's a lot of reason for hope down the line. Just don't expect anything soon. Cautious optimism, but with awareness of his current flaws.

That’s why I don’t get the Rodgers jr comparisons. Rodgers is prob the most accurate scrambling passer in the game. I think Rosen will be a good qb in this class but the comparisons to Rodgers aren’t entirely accurate.

 

[manxman2601]

That’s why I don’t get the Rodgers jr comparisons. Rodgers is prob the most accurate scrambling passer in the game. I think Rosen will be a good qb in this class but the comparisons to Rodgers aren’t entirely accurate.

Aren’t those comparisons more about him falling?