Your thoughts on Patriots cornerback strategy in the draft...

[ATippett56]

The New England Patriots coaching staff visited or worked out a number of cornerbacks prior to the 2015 NFL Draft.

http://www.nepatriotsdraft.com/2015/02/2015-patriots-draft-contacts.html

The Patriots have had Pre-Draft Contact with the following 2015 NFL Draft Prospects:

PW – Private Workout
PDW – Pro Day Workout
OV – Official Visit
CI – Combine Interview
U – Unconfirmed Contact (Interview, Workout, Etc…)

Cornerbacks
Justin Coleman, CB, Tennessee (PW)
Chris Dunkley, CB, USF (OV)
Kevin Johnson, CB, Wake Forest (PW)
Jacoby Glenn, CB, UCF (PW)
Bobby McCain, CB, Memphis (PW)
Davion Orphey, CB, Utah (PW)
Marcus Peters, CB, Washington (CI)
Cody Riggs, CB, Notre Dame (PW)
Curtis Riley, CB, Fresno State (PW)
Darryl Roberts, CB, Marshall (PW)
Eric Rowe, CB, Utah (PW)
JaCorey Shepherd, CB, Kansas (PW)
Cam Thomas, CB, Western Kentucky (PW)
Tray Walker, CB, Texas Southern (PW)
Julian Wilson, CB, Oklahoma (PW)

 

[Danger Zone]

http://media.weei.com/a/104671094/n...eaking-down-the-pats-draft-hour-2-5-3-15.htm#

Tom E Curran called into the Greg ****erson and Chris Price show a little after 37:45 on the above link.

Theyre fairly convinced from what I understand that Bradley Fletcher was a victim of scheme more than being a bad football player in Philadelphia. You know he was put out in an island and he didn't get a lot of help. He's out there covering Dez Bryant and other guys like that you can find the clips, Bradley FLetcher Phildelphia burned and you'll have a a ton of Google hits on that. And it will show him one on one with guys that are 6'3" 220lbs jumping over him and making him look bad on the outside. The Patriots generally think they can fix that by giving him more help over the top and playing him in a different style. So, as a result, the Bradley Fletcher who was run out of town on a rail in Philadelphia, they don't think they are necessarily getting. They are getting one who will be used differently and be more beneficial to them.

 

[Brady6]

People act like the secondary was so ridiculously good last year and it really wasn't the case at all. Doug Baldwin beat Revis for a TD in the SB, Aaron Rodgers shredded us, including Revis. I loved having Revis here but he wasn't the Revis from 2011 and frankly I don't think it is possible to be that type of CB anymore with all the rule changes. Realistically with all the rule changes and likely continued increasing of the enforcements of them using a zone coverage scheme probably makes a lot more sense.

If Belichick really felt Revis was worth the money he would have just picked up the option and worked things out in terms of cap space.

 

[SteveGrogan]

The secondary was incredible because of the statistic that doesn't exist - how long the opposing QB was allowed to hold the ball and check down receivers.

There was just about no pass rush to speak of, I'd expect next year to be slightly worse against the run, but with a whole lot more pressure. Last year our secondary was asked to cover routes for what seemed like an eternity. Next year with any luck they just need to cover for a few seconds.

Hey, it worked for the Giants. Twice. Get TB12 to hand off and the offense to run the ball more and that pass rush won't be exhausted by halftime.

 

[mgteich]

replacement for chung? they just extended his contract. what am i missing?

Chung's extension was a good idea. He will get paid $1.6M for his 2016 play ,or he will be replaced.

He will get $2.9M for this year if he earns his incentives.

In any case, both Wilson and Ebner are in their contract years.

Personally, I expect both Richards and Chung to be on the 2016 squad.

 

[Brady2Moss]

People act like the secondary was so ridiculously good last year and it really wasn't the case at all. Doug Baldwin beat Revis for a TD in the SB, Aaron Rodgers shredded us, including Revis. I loved having Revis here but he wasn't the Revis from 2011 and frankly I don't think it is possible to be that type of CB anymore with all the rule changes. Realistically with all the rule changes and likely continued increasing of the enforcements of them using a zone coverage scheme probably makes a lot more sense.

If Belichick really felt Revis was worth the money he would have just picked up the option and worked things out in terms of cap space.

I have to disagree, the secondary was ridiculously good given the straight up man to man they played with usually only a single high safety. That ridiculous 4th quarter points stat wasn't because of our inept pass rush thats for sure.

Revis WAS that good last year. He might not have been 2011 Revis but then again we can't accurately assess that because he wasn't usually tasked with the #1 receiver each week like he was in Rex's scheme. For example, when he was on AJ Green for the entire game he destroyed the guy, one of his few catches ended in a fumble. Revis went out for 2 plays and he immediately gets 40 yard TD over Logan Ryan.

They need to go to more zone and pressure based 100% BECAUSE the secondary was that good last year and it is nowhere NEAR as good now. Obviously both strategies can work, but for us to have that type of pressure Jones, Easley, Brown all need to play like first rounders AND lower depth chart guys need to get good pass rush on top of it. That's a lot of things that need to go right, I'm not convinced that we're going to have a top 5 pass rush now just because of the names added to the defensive front 7.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

Daryl Roberts from Marshall. Honor student by the way. If he puts in the work, I think he can contribute. If his pro day numbers are accurate, he's got the tools.

The draft is fun, but it's best not to get too excited about it. Few of these guys are anywhere near ready to contribute. We'll see.

Just because a kid can run a fast 40 does not mean he can cover. It is a good place to start, but...

 

[mgteich]

Might I suggest that Belichick is fine with Fletcher/Butler/Arrington with Dennard, McClain, Ryan, Roberts, Chekwa and Green battling for the backup spots.

Yes, the from seven will need to play better. I would expect that it will.

 

[hwc]

Might I suggest that Belichick is fine with Fletcher/Butler/Arrington with Dennard, McClain, Ryan, Roberts, Chekwa and Green battling for the backup spots.

Yep. That's pretty much how I see the pencilled-in pre-camp version of the depth chart.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

I don't understand why you have to take everything to a ridiculous extreme. Yes, cornerbacks are important. Say that and it's an accurate thing. I'd agree with it. But no, you have to always take it to the extreme edge one way or another. To say they're more coveted or more difficult to fill than QBs is just ridiculous. If you honestly believe that, you're the only person in the world who does..

I stand by what I said. How many top-tier QBs are there? 6-10 I would say. How many top-tier, shutdown CBs are there? Revis and maybe a couple of other guys. CBs are hard to find; most of the top athletes in that size range go for the glamor positions such as WR. It takes a unique talent and mindset to be a top CB.

The Patriots, alas, seems to undervalue them, letting Gay and Assante go and more recently Revis and Browner....but heck they are the professionals and I am but a wee amateur so I guess it works for them but the whole defense gets a lot easier when you have at least one good corner.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

The New England Patriots coaching staff visited or worked out a number of cornerbacks prior to the 2015 NFL Draft.

http://www.nepatriotsdraft.com/2015/02/2015-patriots-draft-contacts.html

Interesting that PJ Williams or Darby were not on that list. Character concerns?

 

[ATippett56]

Interesting that PJ Williams or Darby were not on that list. Character concerns?

Quite possibly especially after the Aaron Hernandez murder trial.

 

[ATippett56]

My hope is Alfonzo Dennard reverts back to his first season/second season form, which would make Bradley "burnt toast" Fletcher expendable.

http://www.nj.com/eagles/index.ssf/...r_being_worst_football_player_in_the_nfl.html

 

[convertedpatsfan]

I stand by what I said. How many top-tier QBs are there? 6-10 I would say. How many top-tier, shutdown CBs are there? Revis and maybe a couple of other guys. CBs are hard to find; most of the top athletes in that size range go for the glamor positions such as WR. It takes a unique talent and mindset to be a top CB.

The Patriots, alas, seems to undervalue them, letting Gay and Assante go and more recently Revis and Browner....but heck they are the professionals and I am but a wee amateur so I guess it works for them but the whole defense gets a lot easier when you have at least one good corner.

I think those numbers are a bit off, but I'm not really interested in debating who is elite and who isn't with someone who thinks corners matter more than QBs. But let me try to explain this in really simple terms for you:

Scarcity does not equal importance.

There are very few blacksmiths in the world, but that doesn't make them more important than IT professionals. (Or maybe they are, depending on the quality of your IT Department.)

So how many elite kickers are there? I'm not talking good, I mean elite, guys who get a HOF vote or two. Maybe 2 or 3 max? Definitely fewer than potential HOF QBs right now. So by your logic, we should value an elite kicker over an elite QB and elite corner too.

Here's how important the QB position is in the pass-happy NFL today: a washed-up former Pro Bowler like Carson Palmer has more of an impact on winning games than an elite cornerback like Patrick Peterson.

If you're building a circus of rare talents, you can try to make the argument that an elite corner is worth more than an elite QB. But in terms of actually winning games, no.

You know that, so please stop this. It's beyond ridiculous.

 

[JoeSixPat]

People act like the secondary was so ridiculously good last year and it really wasn't the case at all. Doug Baldwin beat Revis for a TD in the SB, Aaron Rodgers shredded us, including Revis. I loved having Revis here but he wasn't the Revis from 2011 and frankly I don't think it is possible to be that type of CB anymore with all the rule changes. Realistically with all the rule changes and likely continued increasing of the enforcements of them using a zone coverage scheme probably makes a lot more sense.

If Belichick really felt Revis was worth the money he would have just picked up the option and worked things out in terms of cap space.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels that way. Don't get me wrong. Revis is a player who needed to be respected and for the most part he was - and his biggest impact was in NOT having the ball thrown his way - which in fact put more pressure on the other DBs but obviously overall it's a help when you can quiet one side of the field

Revis, IMO, was brought in to be a difference maker in the playoffs against some strong arms - but as you note he wasn't perfect - and in the end the Pats never had to face Manning, for whom I think that secondary was assembled

Belichick is constantly re-inventing himself and his D and that truly confounds opposing offenses - so as much as people think Belichick has a specific D style he really is very adaptable and he's investing in his front 7 now that the market on CB has skyrocketed (thanks in part to the Pats own success)

The cost benefit analysis was simply not there for Revis at $15-$20 million a season and I don't second guess Belichick on this one (other moves, I question - but not Revis at that pricetag)

 

[farn]

I think the secondary last year was great. We forget how crazy for offencse the NFL is now. There will be a drop off. The secondary won't be as good as it was unless there are changes to the current roster.

Maybe Fletcher is the victim of an Eagles system. Maybe Dennard returns to better form. Maybe Butler continues to trend upwards. But I think the only way this team goes far is if the front seven plays lights out. It is a possibility as I am very excited about the DL and LBs. But we're kidding ourselves if we think losing Revis is a good step.

 

[RobertWeathers]

The secondary was incredible because of the statistic that doesn't exist - how long the opposing QB was allowed to hold the ball and check down receivers.

There was just about no pass rush to speak of, I'd expect next year to be slightly worse against the run, but with a whole lot more pressure. Last year our secondary was asked to cover routes for what seemed like an eternity. Next year with any luck they just need to cover for a few seconds.

Hey, it worked for the Giants. Twice. Get TB12 to hand off and the offense to run the ball more and that pass rush won't be exhausted by halftime.

Why do you think the run D will be worse?

 

[RobertWeathers]

Might I suggest that Belichick is fine with Fletcher/Butler/Arrington with Dennard, McClain, Ryan, Roberts, Chekwa and Green battling for the backup spots.

Yes, the from seven will need to play better. I would expect that it will.

I think hes fine with it as a starting point but by no means is he sold on it as neither Butler and Fletcher have a long and lengthy track record of outstanding CB play.

Just gotta see..

 

[RobertWeathers]

The Patriots, alas, seems to undervalue them, letting Gay and Assante go and more recently Revis and Browner....

Did they really undervalue these players?

 

[JoeSixPat]

I stand by what I said. How many top-tier QBs are there? 6-10 I would say. How many top-tier, shutdown CBs are there? Revis and maybe a couple of other guys. CBs are hard to find; most of the top athletes in that size range go for the glamor positions such as WR. It takes a unique talent and mindset to be a top CB.

The Patriots, alas, seems to undervalue them, letting Gay and Assante go and more recently Revis and Browner....but heck they are the professionals and I am but a wee amateur so I guess it works for them but the whole defense gets a lot easier when you have at least one good corner.

Clearly Belichick also undervalued CB in 2004 when Troy Brown was playing CB for half a season - and that season ended OK as I recall - not only without a top tier CB but with a WR playing CB

In comparing QB to CB I think we'd all agree they'd not have won without Brady - but they have already proven they can win the Super Bowl without even having a CB playing CB

Honestly I'm not arguing the point though. Even you as a Revis proponent likely accept that his price tag was too high. But honestly I'm still a bit confused as to why Browner would be let go as I felt he was worth his salary. (Though I think there's more to the Browner story than we likely know)

I'm all for bringing in as many CB bodies in camp as they can get their hands on. If Belichick tries out enough guys he usually finds the diamonds in the rough