with the 3rd pick in the NBA Draft...

[borg]

Watching Cleveland defend last night against the Warriors snipers is such a stark contrast to how Cleveland defends the Celtics.

Verses the C's, Cleveland packs it in the paint with their extreme height/rebounding advantage daring the C's to launch 3's knowing the law of Celtic shooting averages favors the Cavs, especially when Cleveland will OWN the boards…..and I can't say OWN loud enough. The C's don't even attempt offensive rebounds with Cleveland's fast break in the back of their minds. A hot shooting Celtics team has a chance, but the stars must be aligned. Over a seven game series, you become what you are. For the C's, a poor shooting/ inept rebounding team …..with a lot of heart/fight

On the other hand, the sniper accuracy of GS pulls the Cavs' defense out of the paint which allows Curry and company to find slashing open men for layups. That's RESPECT for GS's strength……and Cleveland has yet to solve this enigma.

Which gets us back to building a Celtics s Championship roster. Lots of assets to hopefully secure====> big men and shooters /shooters and big men…...build a roster to win both ways. (sound so easy ). Or should Ainge just scour the planet attempting to secure every sniper not nailed down to a contract and go for full frontal Rick Pitino/Knicks "launch party" just chucking bombs till it rains trophies? Three is a bigger number than two… ..in this new NBA. Looking at the NBA finalists big men….is my worry about finding rebounding unwarranted?

 

[captain stone]

It's not unwarranted, and I've been saying the same thing all season.

That's why releasing David Lee made little sense;

That's why not drafting Gorgui Dieng (never mind the Greek Freak) in favor of an old, soft, slow, jump-shooting "big man" made Very little sense.

That's why not drafting Bobby Portis in favor of the non-distributing, non-shooting, 2nd-round talent midget made abso-feckin-lutely ZERO sense.

And don't even get me started on not drafting DeAndre Jordan in favor of a LATE-2nd-round talent with MASSIVE character "issues" who didn't even make it in the league through his rookie contract.

 

[IcyPatriot]

I don't want to start a new thread so I'll stick this here.
The more I analyze the draft the more I see this as a great draft for Ainge.

1: Pick #3 - Jamal Murray ... this kid is going to be a star and I really like what I saw from Rozier
...... A back court of Thomas/Bradley with subs Rozier/Murray will be very potent.

2: Pick #8 - Jakob Poeltl .. Celtics trade Marcus Smart to the Pelicans who instantly become a strong team with the trade.
..... Celtics get a rim protector who is improving offensively and has upside in that area ... Jakob could be here 8-12 years.

3: Pick #15 Marquesse Chriss ... Celtics trade #16 and #23 and Olynyk if need be if Chriss is still on the board - Chriss and Mickey as PF's will be good.
.... Celtics get a power forward who already can help the team more than Sullinger ... by Jared don't let the door hit u in the ass.

2nd round ... swing for the fence with every pick ... speculate away and bury these players elsewhere pick mostly small forwards as an eye towards the future.

I know many here like Smart ... but he's nothing more than a defender ... watch him shoot the ball - it's ugly and I'd rather keep Bradley as he can play PG/SG and defend.

Many think Wyc wants star players now ... and I think he does ...
But this talent will keep fans in the seats for a long time with just a bit more patience from the fans.

 

[captain stone]

Interesting stuff.

Jamal Murray may indeed be the 3rd-best player in the draft, but he only makes sense for the Cs if, as you proposed, at least one of Smart/Rozier/Bradley is traded.

Smart to NO would make the Pelicans' defense one of the best in the league, and Poeltl should be available at 12. The question for me becomes: Would I rather Murray & Poeltl, or Okafor/Noel & Buddy Hield (at 8)?

Olynyk +16 + 23 for 15 seems a bit of an overpay, but that opinion might be moot anyway: Marquese Chriss is now Chad Ford's #6(!) prospect on espn.com.
Deyonta Davis or Domantas Sabonis might not be bad consolation prizes at 16 if Chriss is unavailable at 15.

I agree that the 2nd-rounders should be mostly draft-and-stash, especially if one of the Croatian Centers, Zizic or Zubac, is available.

 

[borg]

Accepting that Boston will never have truly elite NBA studs on their roster (not a FA destination of choice / unlucky lottery karma / teams don't trade studs ), the only way I can see the C's making a quantum leap north in the standings is to build a deeper team with defined roles that fit the players skills better.

1) Thomas…despite his instant offense capabilities, is not championship team point guard and would serve the C's better as their 6th man. His size is a liability and the C's cannot advance if Thomas is their go-to, crunch-time scorer. For bad teams…yes…but not a team with higher ambitions. Of course Thomas won't agree with this type of role and at some point the team will need to make hard decisions….. not yet…. but Thomas' limitations will become a bigger issue as the team improves the rest of the roster.

2) Smart, as much as I was down on him mid season, is a difference maker defensively and many of the playoff comebacks were thanks to his superhuman efforts. That kind of drive is irreplaceable and I expect his decision making to improve as he ages. Can he be the starting PG next year…not yet, but in time, possibly.

In my perfect world, Thomas and Smart would be my 6th and 7th men off the bench, scorer + defender, quality that opponents benches would have trouble matching. Of course the 2015-16 Celtics were offensively inept at times with Thomas sitting and there lies the conundrum. Can Rozier get up to speed sooner rather than later, allowing Thomas to be that unstoppable 6th man…in a perfect world…lol

3) Bradley stays in the starting lineup. IMO, he is the only legit NBA starter on the C's roster…shooter /scorer / defender…full package, team friendly contract

4) Regarding Crowder….…..experts of the "new" NBA say Crowder's multiple skill sets are perfect for today's game so who am I to argue. Personally, I hate seeing big men launching 3's because it tells me that their other skill sets are inadequate. You can guess my opinion on all the Celtics big men since none can rebound and most spend half their day launching clankers that defensive rebounders gobble up. The Celtics need balance down low….Crowder stays in the starting lineup but the rest of the big men…….

5) ….like Sullinger………grab a seat closest to the buffet, you have plenty of time now to spend with your first love….it's over.
The rest of the BIG Men (lol) Olynyk, Johnson, Jerebko, Zeller……..bench minutes only. Bad teams start players like these…JAGs. I fully expect Ainge to use his FA $$$ to upgrade PF + C.
HE HAS TO.
The team's strengths are in the back court and their achilles is their anemic front court and 19 year old draft picks will not improve the team next year. $$$$ will.

The Draft…….Bender seems logical but my prejudice toward tall skinny white guys making a difference in the NBA mosh pit prevents me from getting excited….I'll defer to Ainge and I won't rip his head off if Bender gets the nod, even if he defers a year (Bird waves hello). I still prefer Okafor.
With the 100 other picks……shooters / shooters / shooters. Awful shooting teams that rely on long range shots should aspire to acquiring better shooters….right? And of course, some Euro lottery tickets that may payoff after a year or more of overseas seasoning.

The C's are imperfect, they won't solve their roster problems in 1 year or even 2, but with so many assets, it is almost a guarantee of incremental gains while many teams lacking assets will reverse direction. And since it is unlikely they will secure an all-NBA type, this team needs to win with solid depth, and players fitted into correct roles. As of now, too many square pegs in round holes. Ainge has an incredibly complex task ahead and it is my personal preference that he build for a long sustained run. The big 3 era was fun while it lasted but that window was always limited. Let's build something sustainable. (pom poms have now been lowered)

 

[rochrist]

I don't want to start a new thread so I'll stick this here.
The more I analyze the draft the more I see this as a great draft for Ainge.

1: Pick #3 - Jamal Murray ... this kid is going to be a star and I really like what I saw from Rozier
...... A back court of Thomas/Bradley with subs Rozier/Murray will be very potent.

2: Pick #8 - Jakob Poeltl .. Celtics trade Marcus Smart to the Pelicans who instantly become a strong team with the trade.
..... Celtics get a rim protector who is improving offensively and has upside in that area ... Jakob could be here 8-12 years.

3: Pick #15 Marquesse Chriss ... Celtics trade #16 and #23 and Olynyk if need be if Chriss is still on the board - Chriss and Mickey as PF's will be good.
.... Celtics get a power forward who already can help the team more than Sullinger ... by Jared don't let the door hit u in the ass.

2nd round ... swing for the fence with every pick ... speculate away and bury these players elsewhere pick mostly small forwards as an eye towards the future.

I know many here like Smart ... but he's nothing more than a defender ... watch him shoot the ball - it's ugly and I'd rather keep Bradley as he can play PG/SG and defend.

Many think Wyc wants star players now ... and I think he does ...
But this talent will keep fans in the seats for a long time with just a bit more patience from the fans.

Chriss is a great athlete, but he doesn't have a clue how to play basketball, plus, he's an historically bad rebounder.
Murray doesn't look athletic enough to be a star to me. I think he'll have a lot more trouble getting that shot off in the NBA.

 

[scout]

Celtics will contend for the title next year. Danny will trade players, picks, and sign free agent(s). The coach is in place; buckle up.

 

[borg]

After reading the Herald's article discussing six likely targets for the #3 pick…..

Six players who might be a fit for the Celtics at pick No. 3
….I am convinced the Celts have only 2 options…..Bender or trade.
All six are blemished. Either…. too young to contribute, not athletic enough, can't defend, positional overlap, can't shoot. Bender ticks the most boxes at a position the Celts are desperate to add a legit starter. Unfortunately Bender likely wouldn't start for the C's for a few years. The article mentioned that several teams are high on Dunn and that could work for the C's. Their #3 guarantees trading partners that Dunn would be available and Boston might be able to gain some assets in a trade. Remember how many draft picks Ainge was ready to unload last year to get into the top 10. We'll see. If a team in the top six is desperate to move up to #3 offering sweeteners like a 2017 #1 and/or a legit NBA roster player….Ainge has to listen. I still like Okafor for Dunn (#3) with no sweetener necessary and maybe Ainge could leverage another pick from Philly….who knows

 

[captain stone]

That's exactly the way I see it too: Bender or trade.

 

[IcyPatriot]

After reading the Herald's article discussing six likely targets for the #3 pick…..

Six players who might be a fit for the Celtics at pick No. 3
….I am convinced the Celts have only 2 options…..Bender or trade.
All six are blemished. Either…. too young to contribute, not athletic enough, can't defend, positional overlap, can't shoot. Bender ticks the most boxes at a position the Celts are desperate to add a legit starter. Unfortunately Bender likely wouldn't start for the C's for a few years. The article mentioned that several teams are high on Dunn and that could work for the C's. Their #3 guarantees trading partners that Dunn would be available and Boston might be able to gain some assets in a trade. Remember how many draft picks Ainge was ready to unload last year to get into the top 10. We'll see. If a team in the top six is desperate to move up to #3 offering sweeteners like a 2017 #1 and/or a legit NBA roster player….Ainge has to listen. I still like Okafor for Dunn (#3) with no sweetener necessary and maybe Ainge could leverage another pick from Philly….who knows

If I'm Ainge and I can get a #1 next year with a switch of #1's this year that is still in the top 8 I do that all day long.
However the problem in this entire thread is not Ainge ... it is Wyc and IMO he's a bit to desperate.
As far as Bender ... don't like him ... I like Murray and Brown.
Pick up a PF and C with the other 2 picks and move along.

 

[realtime]

I don't want to start a new thread so I'll stick this here.
The more I analyze the draft the more I see this as a great draft for Ainge.

1: Pick #3 - Jamal Murray ... this kid is going to be a star and I really like what I saw from Rozier
...... A back court of Thomas/Bradley with subs Rozier/Murray will be very potent.

2: Pick #8 - Jakob Poeltl .. Celtics trade Marcus Smart to the Pelicans who instantly become a strong team with the trade.
..... Celtics get a rim protector who is improving offensively and has upside in that area ... Jakob could be here 8-12 years.

3: Pick #15 Marquesse Chriss ... Celtics trade #16 and #23 and Olynyk if need be if Chriss is still on the board - Chriss and Mickey as PF's will be good.
.... Celtics get a power forward who already can help the team more than Sullinger ... by Jared don't let the door hit u in the ass.

2nd round ... swing for the fence with every pick ... speculate away and bury these players elsewhere pick mostly small forwards as an eye towards the future.

I know many here like Smart ... but he's nothing more than a defender ... watch him shoot the ball - it's ugly and I'd rather keep Bradley as he can play PG/SG and defend.

Many think Wyc wants star players now ... and I think he does ...
But this talent will keep fans in the seats for a long time with just a bit more patience from the fans.

I would throw up in my mouth twice if this happened -- once for trading Smart and once for using the fruits of the Smart trade to select Poeltl. I question whether Poeltl will be a better NBA player than Tyler Zeller . . . and we already have Zeller.

On the other hand, I would be ecstatic with Chriss in the teens. But I think he will be long gone by then.

 

[rochrist]

This is kind of interesting. Sport Science analysis of Bender:

 

[captain insano]

drafting bender would be a mistake. on csne tonight tim welch said from what he is hearing bender is off the celtics draft board. they said he had an awful work out when they went to see him[link below]. give me some buddy hield thank you very much. hield or trade.
Welsh: Noel, Okafor in play in possible Celtics-76ers deal

 

[borg]

drafting bender would be a mistake. on csne tonight tim welch said from what he is hearing bender is off the celtics draft board. they said he had an awful work out when they went to see him[link below]. give me some buddy hield thank you very much. hield or trade.
Welsh: Noel, Okafor in play in possible Celtics-76ers deal

Thanks.
I'm puzzled why teams would prefer Noel over Okafor….guess I haven't watched enough Philly games. Ainge and other GMs must think, coming off of knee surgery in '14, Noel still has plenty of upside still ahead. Let's not forgot Okafor had a tear in his meniscus that knocked him out late in the season. I didn't forget Okafor is a knucklehead with maturity issues. Is Okafor's D that bad that we all should ignore what a down-low offensive force he is….which happens to be the Celts biggest need. Tough calls ahead for Ainge.
Given Philly's professed love for Dunn, will Danny draft the kid and let the bidding begin? Who will blink first?
And….given that Philly spent a #3 on Okafor and a #6 on Noel, can they really expect more assets in return besides #3 this year.
Alternate scenario…..teams like Minny and/or New Orleans offer the C's this year's #1 plus next year's #1 for #3 (Dunn)……I'd do that in a second given the likelihood of the C's having two top lottery picks next year….and two remaining #1's this year. Plus…..as a peanut gallery GM, I actually enjoy these types of off seasons more than the games themselves (it's a sickness).
Go Danny go….use the leverage you have to stick it to these MFers.

 

[Real World]

Thanks.
I'm puzzled why teams would prefer Noel over Okafor….guess I haven't watched enough Philly games. Ainge and other GMs must think, coming off of knee surgery in '14, Noel still has plenty of upside still ahead. Let's not forgot Okafor had a tear in his meniscus that knocked him out late in the season. I didn't forget Okafor is a knucklehead with maturity issues. Is Okafor's D that bad that we all should ignore what a down-low offensive force he is….which happens to be the Celts biggest need. Tough calls ahead for Ainge.
Given Philly's professed love for Dunn, will Danny draft the kid and let the bidding begin? Who will blink first?
And….given that Philly spent a #3 on Okafor and a #6 on Noel, can they really expect more assets in return besides #3 this year.
Alternate scenario…..teams like Phoenix and/or New Orleans offer the C's this year's #1 plus next year's #1 for #3 (Dunn)……I'd do that in a second given the likelihood of the C's having two top lottery picks next year….and two remaining #1's this year. Plus…..as a peanut gallery GM, I actually enjoy these types of off seasons more than the games themselves (it's a sickness).
Go Danny go….use the leverage you have to stick it to these MFers.

From what I've read, and heard, Philly has had difficulty getting a top 5 or 6 pick for Okafor. Teams know it too, which has made moving him a little bitter for Philly. Personally I'd be ok with Okafor for the #3 pick, if we aren't taking Bender. If it so happens that the Celtics would get Okafor + an asset of variable worth for #3 then all the better.

I too can't understand the Noel > Okafor buzz that's out there. Sure Noel is more active from a defensive standpoint and can block shots, but he is a ZERO offensively, is extremely thin, and is an RFA next summer I think. That means investing $15-20 million per to retain him. Would you pay that? I wouldn't. Why not spend on Biyombo or Whiteside and keep #3 if you want a defense only big man. I get that people say the NBA is a small ball, shoot the 3 league, but it's cyclical. When no one has low post capability, then having it should be seen as an asset and not a liability. I think Okafor should be the choice over Noel for contractual reasons, and cuz he's the better player imo. Let's not forget he would be finished with his sophomore season right now.

As for picking #3, my choice is Bender. Highest upside of the lot after 1 and 2. C's have time to develop him. They won 48 games last year and should do similarly well this year with their developing talent. Draft the best player long term, and hope for the best. Jaylan Brown is an athlete with no BB IQ. Murray is a shooter with no first step. Same for Heild. Chriss is a project who's rebounding is atrocious. Dunn is a PG with bad shoulders who turns it over and can't really shoot. Plus we are guard heavy as is. I think you take the most talented player with the best long term outlook. To me that's Bender.

 

[realtime]

Thanks.
I'm puzzled why teams would prefer Noel over Okafor….guess I haven't watched enough Philly games. Ainge and other GMs must think, coming off of knee surgery in '14, Noel still has plenty of upside still ahead. Let's not forgot Okafor had a tear in his meniscus that knocked him out late in the season. I didn't forget Okafor is a knucklehead with maturity issues. Is Okafor's D that bad that we all should ignore what a down-low offensive force he is….which happens to be the Celts biggest need. Tough calls ahead for Ainge.
Given Philly's professed love for Dunn, will Danny draft the kid and let the bidding begin? Who will blink first?
And….given that Philly spent a #3 on Okafor and a #6 on Noel, can they really expect more assets in return besides #3 this year.
Alternate scenario…..teams like Minny and/or New Orleans offer the C's this year's #1 plus next year's #1 for #3 (Dunn)……I'd do that in a second given the likelihood of the C's having two top lottery picks next year….and two remaining #1's this year. Plus…..as a peanut gallery GM, I actually enjoy these types of off seasons more than the games themselves (it's a sickness).
Go Danny go….use the leverage you have to stick it to these MFers.

Noel is a really nice player. Athletic, runs the floor, has good defensive potential. Compared to Okafor, it's no contest who I'd rather have -- Noel. Okafor would be great to have in the 1970's or 80's. In the current NBA, he is almost a dinosaur -- slow, unathletic, lazy rebounder and defender. Pass.

Edit: Real World's point about Noel's impending RFA status is well-taken. Okafor definitely has a much better contract situation. But I still wouldn't touch the guy with a 10 foot pole.

 

[borg]

The Bucks Khris Middleton is the latest player rumor connected to the Celts #3. On first glance, everything the team wants…6'8" SG/SF …..shooter, 2 way player, athletic, positive growth curve, experienced, locked in for 4 yrs @$14 mill per.
But why would the Bucks unload this guy for a #3 question mark?

 

[captain insano]

The Bucks Khris Middleton is the latest player rumor connected to the Celts #3. On first glance, everything the team wants…6'8" SG/SF …..shooter, 2 way player, athletic, positive growth curve, experienced, locked in for 4 yrs @$14 mill per.
But why would the Bucks unload this guy for a #3 question mark?

they probably won't. just the Celtics kicking the tires to see if there is any interest by the bucks. the celtics are going to end up picking at three. the 3 pick just isn't worth that much to other teams. this years draft is a weak one imo.

 

[Boston Boxer]

if we could somehow trade Smart, then i would take Dunn. other than that, if we make the pick, then i would take Murray.

 

[rochrist]

if we could somehow trade Smart, then i would take Dunn. other than that, if we make the pick, then i would take Murray.

Dunn seems like Rondo 2.0 to me. Another no shot great passing guard. Only he's more turnover prone. And Murray doesn't seem athletic enough to succeed at the same level he did in college. Okafor is Al Jefferson 2.0. So I'm left with Brown, Bender, Hield, Noel or Middleton. Middleton would be pretty nice. Young and signed through (I think) 2020. I'd be ok with Bender as well. I think Brad could find really creative ways to use him.