With all the legacy talk: What would it take for Brady to overtake Montana?

[SB39]

Some might not agree with the premise but I think winning 3 SBs and losing 0 is superior to winning 3 and losing 2. It pains me to say it, it really does. Maybe you disagree.

But for the average fan will 4 wins and 2 losses be considered superior to 3-0?

Is anything but another SB enough to propel Brady past Montana?

First of all, Montana won 4. So Brady needs another just to tie.

Second of all, if Brady does win another, I think 4 Super Bowls and 6 conference championships is superior to 4 Super Bowls and 4 conference championships.

 

[super36]

Look at Terry Bradshaw, 4-0 in Super Bowls, 9 TDs & 4 INTs in Super Bowls, and 2× Super Bowl MVP, but almost never mentioned in the same breath as Montana.

Montana's greatness boils down to 4-0 in Super Bowls, 11 TDs & 0 INTs in Super Bowls, and still the only 3× Super Bowl MVP.

Brady probably has to set new Super Bowl career & game records in order for there to even be a debate again, because the Super Bowl losses and interceptions are counted against him.

-- 5 Super Bowl wins (at minimum)
-- 4 Super Bowl MVPs
-- 7 TD passes in a Super Bowl would also help

 

[SB39]

2 more trophies would leave no doubt, but as NormZauchin pointed out in another thread, Montana threw 11 td's, 0 picks and a 127.8 rating in his 4 wins. Thems some pretty gaudy #'s on the games biggest stage.

That's a B.S. stat and let me tell you why:

Back when Montana was playing, the Super Bowl was just a formality. The real championship game and 2 best teams were the ones who squared off in the NFCCG. His CCG TD/INT ratio is 10-to-6. Impressive, yes, but not gaudy as the Super Bowl stats.

I think Montana could be the greatest ever but it's hilarious how people sometimes act like he never had a bad game. The guy had his share of poor playoff performances and 1-and-done's.

 

[Fencer]

Let's change the subject slightly:

What are the greatest seasons for a QB in NFL history? (And I don't mean just regular seasons.) 2011-12 is the main one I'd expect to see on the list for Brady; after his other great regular seasons his postseason performances were dubious.

 

[robbomango]

Brady needs to win 2 more with a top offense to be placed ahead of Montana by fans outside NE. The knock on Brady is he won 3 championships due to a defense filled with great players -- and just an above average offense (maybe a really good one in 04 due to Dillon); and since 07 when he's been carrying the team he hasn't won it all.

At this point, I really don't care where Brady is ranked all-time; I'm just glad he's been our QB; and I really hope we can somehow finally have a top defense again cause that's what its going to take to win the championship.

And there's no knock on Montana for having a top O and D? 49ers 1st SB they had the #2 D in points and yards, 2nd SB there D was #1 in points. They always had a top D as well as a Hall of fame coach. TB went to those early SB's with far less than Montana did.

 

[robbomango]

Look at Terry Bradshaw, 4-0 in Super Bowls, 9 TDs & 4 INTs in Super Bowls, and 2× Super Bowl MVP, but almost never mentioned in the same breath as Montana.

Montana's greatness boils down to 4-0 in Super Bowls, 11 TDs & 0 INTs in Super Bowls, and still the only 3× Super Bowl MVP.

Brady probably has to set new Super Bowl career & game records in order for there to even be a debate again, because the Super Bowl losses and interceptions are counted against him.

-- 5 Super Bowl wins (at minimum)
-- 4 Super Bowl MVPs
-- 7 TD passes in a Super Bowl would also help

lol, Come on man..........

 

[DocHoliday]

For me he has to win another SB with stats that prove the team won BECAUSE of him.

 

[PATSNUTme]

Why is this so important? It's just talk and opinion. There is no official legacy, "GOAT", designation in Canton.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

Look at Terry Bradshaw, 4-0 in Super Bowls, 9 TDs & 4 INTs in Super Bowls, and 2× Super Bowl MVP, but almost never mentioned in the same breath as Montana.

Terry played amazingly great in the postseason, improving in every facet of his game from his very pedestrian regular season performances- 51% career completion percentage, 212-210 TD/INT ratio, 70.9% passer rating, and being carried by the #1 defense ever.

Sure it was a very different era, but even so some of the statistical differences are stunning.... if for the rest of his career, Tom Brady throws zero touchdown passes and 222 interceptions, he will match Terry in terms of career TD/INT ratio.

 

[Dagg]

I don't think he can pass Joe anymore IMO in the mind of the public.

He had a shot and would have been GOAT if we completed the undefeated season with a SB championship. That loss hurts in so many ways on so many levels still makes me grimace.

 

[patsfan13]

I don't think he can pass Joe anymore IMO in the mind of the public.

He had a shot and would have been GOAT if we completed the undefeated season with a SB championship. That loss hurts in so many ways on so many levels still makes me grimace.

The guy who is retired with all his flaws forgotten will always fare better in the mind of the public than the guy who is playing and we see the flaws.

When Brady is in Canton and his record of winning is in proper perspective and his flaws are forgotten he will fare quite well in GOAT discussions.

Most people never take the time to look at the won loss stats, where Brady is killing it. All in due time.

 

[pheenix11]

I have never understood the logic behind how it is better to NOT make the playoffs or get knocked out in the first round than to go to the Super Bowl and lose.

That makes absolutely no sense. Somehow it's better to completely suck than to carry a team to the end and come up just short? That's ridiculous.

Brady has already played in one more Super Bowl than Montana and has 2 more playoff wins. He's already there. One more would just clinch it.

 

[OhExaulted1]

That's a B.S. stat and let me tell you why:

Back when Montana was playing, the Super Bowl was just a formality. The real championship game and 2 best teams were the ones who squared off in the NFCCG. His CCG TD/INT ratio is 10-to-6. Impressive, yes, but not gaudy as the Super Bowl stats.

I think Montana could be the greatest ever but it's hilarious how people sometimes act like he never had a bad game. The guy had his share of poor playoff performances and 1-and-done's.

True points. The AFC was like the Washington Generals for over a decade back then and Joe did have plenty of stinkers. But on the other hand he was so great he had a state named after him for chrissake. Now that's impressive!

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Big Brady fan here from the start. I do not care how anyone compares Brady to Montanner. I do care that my Patriots team wins another SB while I'm still upright.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

A fourth ring in the Cap and FA era, along with his Regular Season stats (he already has nearly 10,000 more passing yards than Joe and is 148-43 in the Regular Season vs. Joe's 114-47) and his playoff record (already seven AFCCG's, five SB's and three rings) would put him over the top, IMO. I think at that point any remaining rational debate at all could only be between naming Brady or Starr (three SB's and two additional NFL Championships) the GOAT.

The one thing I really don't get is this absurd argument that Brady's 3--2 in the SB is somehow worse than 3--0 would have been. What? Winning two more conference championships is chopped liver?

Someone made the comment after Sunday that there are a lot of QB's in the HOF, but that there is a very small room in Canton with a very small table at which a handful of QB's can debate which one of them is the GOAT. Brady has a seat at that table, along with Montana, Starr and Unitas, IMO. Peyton is probably still in the room, but after Sunday, despite his five league MVP's and regular season stats to stop the universe, his 11--12/1--2 in the postseason gives him a place in that room standing against the wall with Dan Marino, speaking when spoken-to by one of the guys at the table.

 

[festy1986]

Honestly. I think the better question is this.

Take bradys 14 seasons and superimpose them over Montana's 14 from 80-94.

Does brady win 4? Yes. Does brady win more? Personally, i think he does. For as much crap as some give Brady for winning super bowls on his defense first people forget the niners had some really good ones them self. In fact i dont think the pats best defenss compares to the niners best defense.

Its just hard for me to imagine prime brady with prime rice and to not win more than 2. He won 3 with scrubs compared to rice. Brady is STILL going too. Brady him self couldcover that eentire 17 year dynasty and given thst chance he prolly has 6 and a few appearances more.

Brady is the best ever and i don't needs stats to prove it. Just my eyes.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Now that Manning has been eliminated from that conversation, Tom needs one more ring at least! if he wants to challenge Montana for that spot. 2 more to surpass him.

 

[Ring 6]

I don't think he can pass Joe anymore IMO in the mind of the public.

He had a shot and would have been GOAT if we completed the undefeated season with a SB championship. That loss hurts in so many ways on so many levels still makes me grimace.

So the reason that Tom Brady cannot be considered the GOAT is that he came 1 minute short of QBing the greatest team in NFL history?

 

[PatsFanSince74]

I don't think he can pass Joe anymore IMO in the mind of the public.

He had a shot and would have been GOAT if we completed the undefeated season with a SB championship. That loss hurts in so many ways on so many levels still makes me grimace.

There is a small group of people, whose opinion regarding the GOAT would matter to me; that group would probably include other HOF Players and Coaches and maybe a few outside observers. "The mind of the public" is not part of that group.