Win or lose?

[cmasspatsfan]

Tell that to Belichick. I think the guy has a lifetime hard on for beating the Jets. I think they are going on win 16 or 17 in a row and not sure he has it in him.

No matter who they play the last game they're going to try and win.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

Disagree with this. There’s nothing stopping them from bringing in the best competition possible every year, and having the best QB room in the leave, while giving your team depth and trade bait. The fact of the matter is that if your QB doesn’t play really well then you aren’t going to win anything. You can address any other position in free agency, and the rest of the draft every year, but QB is essential to success.

Clearly, QB is the most important position. My point was that it takes resources and a long time to find and develop the right one. Drafting a QB in the first round year after year doesn't give enough time to allow a player to grow into the position and squanders resources needed to make the QB successful.

 

[Ivan]

Clearly, QB is the most important position. My point was that it takes resources and a long time to find and develop the right one. Drafting a QB in the first round year after year doesn't give enough time to allow a player to grow into the position and squanders resources needed to make the QB successful.

Sure it does. You don’t have to wait 3-4 years to see if they pan out, you do what college programs do and bring in the best competition each year and let the best player play. At a minimum you end up with great depth and great trade bait. Philly got a #1 out of Indy after Wentz flamed out there. You aren’t going to win anything without great QB play, so make sure you have the best QB room in football . It doesn’t have to be the 1st round pick every year, there will be years where the top 1st rd. QB’s are gone before you pick, but you can still use a 2nd or 3rd etc that you really like, but you should try to get better at the position every year, because you have no idea what will happen at the position. No matter how good your starting 8 in baseball are you won’t win without really good pitching. No matter how good your first 3 lines are you won’t win if your goalie sucks. And no matter how good your team is in football you won’t win if your QB sucks. This years Patriots defense was very good, but they were much better than their numbers reflected because once again the offense was so putrid that they were in a deep hole and run ragged because the offense just kept giving the ball back to the opposing team. This not only wears a defense down, but also screws them situationally because the opposing offense is always playing with a lead , and they can literally do whatever they want because there is no urgency to try and catch up, ever.

If the last month has shown anything it’s that this team is not as far away from seriously contending as we thought they were in October/November, but they have to fix the QB room. They have other needs, no one would argue they don’t, but QB is first and foremost. The GM should sign a veteran, like Garrapolo or Tannehill, get a top #3 pick, either through position or trade up, and draft a QB, and keep Zappe to hopefully grow and serve as a backup. Jones needs to go.

Once they have fixed the QB room then go hard at fixing the Tackle positions, and WR. Re-Sign Elliot, and try to extend Stevenson, which should be doable, as he’s coming off an injury plagued season, and RB contracts are easy to meet the demands. There are other things they can do, but imo these are the most important areas to address, and they have both the $$$, and draft capital to remedy their most glaring needs. If they don’t do it this offseason then we are likely looking at an extended period of sucking, as this is clearly their best opportunity.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

Sure it does. You don’t have to wait 3-4 years to see if they pan out, you do what college programs do and bring in the best competition each year and let the best player play.

Sorry, I don't really understand the point that you are arguing. The NFL is not college. Despite the importance of the position, spending first round picks on a QB multiple years in a row is not feasible. If an NFL team does this, it means that their initial pick was an immediate flameout. The Cardinals are the only team that I know of who have done this with Rosen and Murray. The QB is the leader of the team is the leader, only one can play at a time. Having multiple #1 choices does not help the QB room or the team in general. The ideal QB room is comprised of the starter, a veteran backup who knows his role and can hold the fort for a few games and a development type with long term potential. If you have more than one QB you have no QBs.

 

[Ivan]

Sorry, I don't really understand the point that you are arguing. The NFL is not college. Despite the importance of the position, spending first round picks on a QB multiple years in a row is not feasible. If an NFL team does this, it means that their initial pick was an immediate flameout. The Cardinals are the only team that I know of who have done this with Rosen and Murray. The QB is the leader of the team is the leader, only one can play at a time. Having multiple #1 choices does not help the QB room or the team in general. The ideal QB room is comprised of the starter, a veteran backup who knows his role and can hold the fort for a few games and a development type with long term potential. If you have more than one QB you have no QBs.

And I disagree with the idea that you are wasting picks, imo what you are wasting is 3-4 years on each QB is the opportunity to succeed. And what’s really ironic is people who don’t think the higher pick is important then arguing that the first round pick is TOO important to use on the most important position frequently. If you have your franchise QB then you don’t have to prioritize it as much, but until you get that QB you need to keep pushing until you get them.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

And I disagree with the idea that you are wasting picks, imo what you are wasting is 3-4 years on each QB is the opportunity to succeed. And what’s really ironic is people who don’t think the higher pick is important then arguing that the first round pick is TOO important to use on the most important position frequently. If you have your franchise QB then you don’t have to prioritize it as much, but until you get that QB you need to keep pushing until you get them.

What's ironic is people thinking that they know what other people think. Having high picks for consecutive years is a sign that something is not right. I will just leave it that spending first round picks on QB's multiple years in a row is not what I want the team to do. Pick the right guy and give him a chance to succeed and continue to search for talent in the later rounds and FA until the QB needs to be replaced.

 

[Ivan]

What's ironic is people thinking that they know what other people think. Having high picks for consecutive years is a sign that something is not right. I will just leave it that spending first round picks on QB's multiple years in a row is not what I want the team to do. Pick the right guy and give him a chance to succeed and continue to search for talent in the later rounds and FA until the QB needs to be replaced.

First, no one said anything about having high picks in multiple years, in fact what I said is that i f there’s no high quality QB prospect that you want there then take another position.And I also said that it’s clear that they are a better team right now than we thought in Oct/Nov, so they need to fix the glaring hole at QB, then address receiver and OT. Second you voted that you want them to win the games, giving them a lower draft pick, but are now saying the pick is too valuable to use on QB in successive drafts. And my stance is that the position is too important to wait 3-4 years any time you draft one to see if they pan out. And I absolutely want them getting the highest pick possible in this draft.

 

[Ivan]

Sorry, I don't really understand the point that you are arguing. The NFL is not college. Despite the importance of the position, spending first round picks on a QB multiple years in a row is not feasible. If an NFL team does this, it means that their initial pick was an immediate flameout. The Cardinals are the only team that I know of who have done this with Rosen and Murray. The QB is the leader of the team is the leader, only one can play at a time. Having multiple #1 choices does not help the QB room or the team in general. The ideal QB room is comprised of the starter, a veteran backup who knows his role and can hold the fort for a few games and a development type with long term potential. If you have more than one QB you have no QBs.

It’s absolutely feasible, you just don’t like the idea, but there’s nothing stopping them from doing just that.

 

[They_Hate_We]

This is such a weird topic. I totally understand both viewpoints. If Tom Brady, Michael Jordan, Wayne Gretzky, or Babe Ruth were available in this draft, I would say "Yes, let's lose to get that guy". It makes sense.

Since we don't know if any of those guys are available, Hell no! I want my favorite team to beat the frickin Jete! That is why I like sports.

 

[long distance]

Spoiler alert: Bill stays and trades down.

 

[InRodWeRust]

Spoiler alert: Bill stays and trades down.

I can totally see him doing that. If he can't get the quarterback he wants then he'll trade down to get more picks to fill the other needs and then either take a chance on a lower round quarterback or pick one up in FA and hope they are good enough to win games with the rest of the upgrades.

 

[Tunescribe]

Spoiler alert: Bill stays and trades down.

Whoever is running the show should trade down for at least two high picks. Too many needs.

 

[SlowGettingUp]

The difference between picking 2nd and picking 3rd, or between 3rd and 4th, (400 points on the standard value chart) is worth a mid second-round pick (pick 50).

 

[IcyPatriot]

How does the 2025 possible draft QB's compare to this draft ....
Also .... I highly doubt we draft in the top 10 - 12 next year.
I would think that's a great discussion ... it does not seem to be as strong as this draft ..
but I do not study it at all ... So how about it those who watch college and study future prospects?????

 

[LightSkinSmurf]

I think we should take Marvin Harrison if we end up at 3 and probably trade down if we are at 4 or worse. Assuming Maye and Caleb are gone of course.

Edit** I thought this was the tankathon thread but comment still applies here I guess.

 

[DarrylS]

The NEP have established a culture of winning since 2001, that can't be turned off and on.. even last Sunday this team did not give up after their initial 1st quarter debacle.
If they were to tank it sends a message that they don't care, when they take the field this Sunday I suspect they will have a game plan to keep their winning streak against the Jets intact.

 

[Ivan]

Spoiler alert: Bill stays and trades down.

Given the way the defense has been playing, and the difficulty in replacing him as coach I’m beginning to think this is more likely. But I hope they take away personnel if they keep
Him as coach.

 

[Ivan]

The NEP have established a culture of winning since 2001, that can't be turned off and on.. even last Sunday this team did not give up after their initial 1st quarter debacle.
If they were to tank it sends a message that they don't care, when they take the field this Sunday I suspect they will have a game plan to keep their winning streak against the Jets intact.

Why do people keep thinking that fans wanting them to get thr higher pick means coaches and players will “ tank?” Coaches and players go for the win, they don’t tank because it will cost them money and possibly a job. This thread and poll has absolutely nothing to do with how the team plays, they will always play to win, it’s about whether you want a higher pick or the win against ( Buffalo), and the Jets. or the 3rd pick in the Draft. I think they win against the Hrts, but I want the 3rd pick in the Draft:

 

[RIpats88]

Given the way the defense has been playing, and the difficulty in replacing him as coach I’m beginning to think this is more likely. But I hope they take away personnel if they keep
Him as coach.

they may keep bill as coach, take more GM duties away from him and sell it to fans that they are preparing for a "transition" "succession planning"

wouldn't be surprised if McDaniels is back next year with Obrien out. with Josh being paid by the raiders its almost a guarantee. and i wouldn't honestly hate it. McDaniels got production out of both cam newton and mac jones.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

First, no one said anything about having high picks in multiple years, in fact what I said is that i f there’s no high quality QB prospect that you want there then take another position.And I also said that it’s clear that they are a better team right now than we thought in Oct/Nov, so they need to fix the glaring hole at QB, then address receiver and OT. Second you voted that you want them to win the games, giving them a lower draft pick, but are now saying the pick is too valuable to use on QB in successive drafts. And my stance is that the position is too important to wait 3-4 years any time you draft one to see if they pan out. And I absolutely want them getting the highest pick possible in this draft.

LOL, just because I voted to win the games in a meaningless poll doesn't mean that I don't value high draft choices. The team will have a great opportunity regardless. We agree that QB is a clear need this year, I hope the team uses the top 10 pick on a QB if they like the player. I just don't think it makes sense drafting QB's in the first round multiple years in a row. In any event I will watch the game hoping that the team plays well and wins because it is the Jets.

It’s absolutely feasible, you just don’t like the idea, but there’s nothing stopping them from doing just that.

You just don't like the fact that I don't like the idea, I explained why. At this point I think that we have fully shared our respective views, no need to continue to beat a dead horse.