what's up with the late flags?

[IllegalContact]

I watched 3 games and all 3 had the announcers mention the late flags

seemed to be primarily with pass interference

It seemed for the most part that they got those calls right, but it gives the appearance that those players with the flagging hand motion will be justified in their gestures and will expect to begin seeing that on every incompletion

 

[Advil]

I don't see why it's a problem. Better late and correct than quick and wrong.

 

[Fball]

There was one in the Green Bay game that was ridiculous; the crowd reacted to the play, and official clearly threw the flag because of that reaction. It was incredibly late & obvious.

In general, the replacements have been good w/ basic calls like illegal motion & offsides, but are lost w/ calls like holding & pass interference, and let those go more often than not.

It's going to really hurt the season if the regular refs don't make it back soon.

 

[LiveShot]

I think the officials did a credible job. Seemed like a lot less flags.

 

[IllegalContact]

I don't see why it's a problem. Better late and correct than quick and wrong.

how do you know a few of them weren't because of the player's reaction?

I understand getting it right, but late calls in any sport are a problem

 

[fxkane]

I watched 3 games and all 3 had the announcers mention the late flags

seemed to be primarily with pass interference

It seemed for the most part that they got those calls right, but it gives the appearance that those players with the flagging hand motion will be justified in their gestures and will expect to begin seeing that on every incompletion

You make a good point. They need to be quicker to beat player gestures and crowd noise... and to show competent decisiveness. This said, I was really impressed by a couple of the crew leaders in yesterday's games. They did not seemed swayed by home fans or coaches or players.

 

[signbabybrady]

Personally I think those were more the cases of incompetant announcers. As a ref is running down the field he needs to keep his eye on the field as he reaches for his flag the speed can vary very much depending on the ref and what is going on in the play. I saw no problems with the plays I saw where an announcer said it and at one instance I actually thought it was the announcer being an idiot as the flag came out reasonable but I dont think he noticed it and was talking about the play as if there was no penalty then noticed the flag and used the Ref as the scape goat.

I saw a few plays yesterday that were questionable but flag speed was not one. Now the key is that though there were some questionable calls I dont think it was anything more than a normal week.

One play that comes to mind is the play that Locker got on hurt on if originally called incomplete would not have resulted in injury and I know if it was a more established QB there would be more talk of that. Its also evidence of why a play should be called honestly and not in a certain way because we know replay can fix it.

 

[Patsrock]

I saw a few plays yesterday that were questionable but flag speed was not one. Now the key is that though there were some questionable calls I dont think it was anything more than a normal week.

One play that comes to mind is the play that Locker got on hurt on if originally called incomplete would not have resulted in injury and I know if it was a more established QB there would be more talk of that. Its also evidence of why a play should be called honestly and not in a certain way because we know replay can fix it.

The locked out officials also would have let that play, play out. In real time it was not clear if it was a fumble or incomplete pass. That was the correct call by the officials on the field. And be honest you would have been pissed off if the call on the field was incomplete and turned out to be wrong and could not be challenged. I would rather see that play happen the way it did yesterday.

 

[signbabybrady]

The locked out officials also would have let that play, play out. In real time it was not clear if it was a fumble or incomplete pass. That was the correct call by the officials on the field. And be honest you would have been pissed off if the call on the field was incomplete and turned out to be wrong and could not be challenged. I would rather see that play happen the way it did yesterday.

I dont agree with that and I tried to cover some of that with my OP. A player got hurt on a play that should have been blown dead, how is that the right way to handle a close play? The ref should be calling the play as he see it and not using replay a crutch. Obviously if he blew it dead and it was in turn a fumble I would be pissed but I would be pissed he called it wrong not pissed that he didnt let it play out in case he was wrong. Plus if clear posession is shown you still can replay it you just lose the yardage from the return.

 

[PatsFaninAZ]

Starting officials at camps and elsewhere are trained to take their time with calls -- to see the play, replay it in their mind, consider it, and then make the decision. This is good officiating. It's not always feasible in baseball and basketall, where the players need to react to your call on the spot -- like fair or foul -- but on play-terminating calls it's always desirable or advisable (like a play at the plate).

If you watch any good high school official, they will take their time with calls. In fact, it's a hallmark of a good ref, not a bad one.

Once you hit Division 1 or the pros, however, a premium is put on "selling" your call. When the number of fans in the arena goes from 900 to 90,000, when the camera focuses on every play, and when you have coaches who are not bound by fair-play high school policies and who are free to try to undermine officiating in the best interest of their clubs, everything changes. To get to that level, you need to be both correct and fast. You must use "hindsight in real time" and sell your call. I've long suspected that with PI in particular, there is a de facto, and unwritten policy, that if you hesitate at all, you don't throw the flag. In other words, when in doubt, or if you are slow to react, you keep the flag in your pocket, even if you actually think it was an infraction.

If you've never officiated, you have no idea how hard hindsight in real time really is. Most humans need a moment to ask themselves, "what did I just see"? These guys are replacement officials, and so there are going to be late flags, but often with a less experienced official, a late flag is a sign of correctness not the other way around.

 

[Linda_The_Pats_Fan (She was NEM)]

At this point I would like to see the NFL tell the regular officials to accept their final offer or to sit out the season.

The temps are not that far off from the calibre we get from the majority of the regulars, and with each passing week, will get even better.

 

[letekro]

What's up with people forgetting that the real officials make late calls, wrong calls, and incomprehensibly terrible calls on a game by game basis?

My take after one week: the replacements seems to make the same percentage of crappy calls as the regular guys.

 

[Patsrock]

I dont agree with that and I tried to cover some of that with my OP. A player got hurt on a play that should have been blown dead, how is that the right way to handle a close play? The ref should be calling the play as he see it and not using replay a crutch. Obviously if he blew it dead and it was in turn a fumble I would be pissed but I would be pissed he called it wrong not pissed that he didnt let it play out in case he was wrong. Plus if clear posession is shown you still can replay it you just lose the yardage from the return.

He did call it the way he saw it, he thought it was a completed pass.

 

[UK_Pat37]

I dont agree with that and I tried to cover some of that with my OP. A player got hurt on a play that should have been blown dead, how is that the right way to handle a close play? The ref should be calling the play as he see it and not using replay a crutch. Obviously if he blew it dead and it was in turn a fumble I would be pissed but I would be pissed he called it wrong not pissed that he didnt let it play out in case he was wrong. Plus if clear posession is shown you still can replay it you just lose the yardage from the return.

There was nothing wrong with the referees call. It's what we have video replay for. It looked like a fumble to a lot of people and it's not surprising he let it play o...it's what they're trained to do.

 

[ALP]

i used to mind this, but thinking about it some more its really not so bad

throwing the flag immediately and then figuring out if it was indeed a penalty or what penalty it was is stupid, if a ref thinks a couple of secs about the play, and decides that a penalty did happen, and which happened (which honestly does take a second or two) then im happy

i dont agree that it is always due to sideline/crowd reaction, the reaction is always there

 

[PatsFaninAZ]

At this point I would like to see the NFL tell the regular officials to accept their final offer or to sit out the season.

The temps are not that far off from the calibre we get from the majority of the regulars, and with each passing week, will get even better.

Disagree. The replacements aren't as good. Not by a long shot. You'll never have perfect officiating, but you need to increase the odds as much as possible.

There were some real issues yesterday. Nothing that was game changing, but only because they got lucky. One of the worst I saw was in the Cardinals/Seahawks game. First and ten, Cardinals sack the Seahawks QB for about an 8 yard loss. Offsetting personal fouls are called. They put the ball back at the original line of scrimmage and call it 2d and 10. Both coaches are confused. Either they are deadball foul, which means it's 2d and 18, or the fouls occurred during the play, meaning they offset, no play, and it's first and 10. Pete Carroll objects to it being second down, officals say it was a deadball foul. Whizenhut then says it should be 2d and 18, and even tries to challenge the spot, which they deny. Later in the game, they charged the Seahawks with their third time out for a late injury, but it was on a clock stopping play. Time out is announced, scoreboard goes to zero. Later, the Seahawks call a time out, which is granted. Originally, the officials think it's a 4th time out situation and there's a 10 minute delay, when an NFL official needs to come on the field and tell them to reinstate the prior time out.

This basic rules stuff is no good. It's unlikely that they can go much longer without it being a game changer. Yes, the regular guys can make mistakes too, but the odds are lower.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

how do you know a few of them weren't because of the player's reaction?

I understand getting it right, but late calls in any sport are a problem

Happens just as often if not more often with the regular crews. I believe because some of them really develop pre existing bias about certain players and teams over time.

 

[Patsrock]

. Later in the game, they charged the Seahawks with their third time out for a late injury, but it was on a clock stopping play. Time out is announced, scoreboard goes to zero. Later, the Seahawks call a time out, which is granted. Originally, the officials think it's a 4th time out situation and there's a 10 minute delay, when an NFL official needs to come on the field and tell them to reinstate the prior time out.

This basic rules stuff is no good. It's unlikely that they can go much longer without it being a game changer. Yes, the regular guys can make mistakes too, but the odds are lower.

Before you think it is only a replacement official problem it happen in 2009 Browns vs Ravens

Oops, Browns get 4th timeout in 2nd half | Football Zebras.comFootball Zebras.com

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Disagree. The replacements aren't as good. Not by a long shot. You'll never have perfect officiating, but you need to increase the odds as much as possible.

There were some real issues yesterday. Nothing that was game changing, but only because they got lucky. One of the worst I saw was in the Cardinals/Seahawks game. First and ten, Cardinals sack the Seahawks QB for about an 8 yard loss. Offsetting personal fouls are called. They put the ball back at the original line of scrimmage and call it 2d and 10. Both coaches are confused. Either they are deadball foul, which means it's 2d and 18, or the fouls occurred during the play, meaning they offset, no play, and it's first and 10. Pete Carroll objects to it being second down, officals say it was a deadball foul. Whizenhut then says it should be 2d and 18, and even tries to challenge the spot, which they deny. Later in the game, they charged the Seahawks with their third time out for a late injury, but it was on a clock stopping play. Time out is announced, scoreboard goes to zero. Later, the Seahawks call a time out, which is granted. Originally, the officials think it's a 4th time out situation and there's a 10 minute delay, when an NFL official needs to come on the field and tell them to reinstate the prior time out.

This basic rules stuff is no good. It's unlikely that they can go much longer without it being a game changer. Yes, the regular guys can make mistakes too, but the odds are lower.

You must have missed a couple of superbowls in the not so distant past. Or the Hoculi debaucle. And those are just ones even the media focused on. Generally no one but disgruntled fans have until now.

 

[PatsFaninAZ]

Before you think it is only a replacement official problem it happen in 2009 Browns vs Ravens

Oops, Browns get 4th timeout in 2nd half | Football Zebras.comFootball Zebras.com

Different situation. This is a bad mistake by the R, who is in charge of keeping time outs, regardless of what it says in the stadium. Clearly in this situation, whatever caused the R to think only 2 not 3 time outs had been called was something that nobody caught -- the Ravens actually thought there was a third time out, because they ran a play instead of kneeling on the ball. It seems pretty clear there was some confusion in the stadium on that day.

Yesterday was a pretty fundamental case of poor rules execution, with not one member of the 7 member crew knowing the rule, which made for it to be corrected 2 minutes later. This is much different. They actually announced in the stadium that the third time out had been charged -- for all we know, the Cardinals played accordingly (playing pass defense because they know it's too risky for the Seahawks to run with no time outs).