Watch out for the NFL* shenanigans today. Footballs will be measured during today's game

[venecol]

Yes. Here's a clip from the winter meetings as Goodell selects Blandino the wise as his VP of refs.

Lol, that looks like the Pats fans during the game day thread.

 

[ChessToCheckers]

The Pats should have been doing this under video surveillance throughout the season with "test balls" (painted bright red) on the sidelines in plain sight for all the world to see. Several balls with calibrated pressure gauges attached (cal certificates traceable to the National Bureau of Standards) in plastic under each gauge. During home games the surveillance feed should be in the corner of the jumbo-tron throughout the game.

Again, an experiment similar to the above, performed by the NFL*, at EVERY GAME for a couple of seasons, would not only clear the Pats of wrong doing, but would delight all science teachers and those who are fond of empirical data. The football masses might collectively learn some science, and the mediots and sports reporters might actually NOT use the words "weighing the ball" anymore.

I think the NFL* can absorb the expense to do this. Or, as BB suggested, we could have a bake sale to pay for it.

But, of course, I'm dreaming. We all know that it has NEVER REALLY BEEN about the PSI. Once the Clown Show was collectively surprised by the Ideal Gas Law, it has been about covering tracks.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

They want the footballs inflated to 13 psi =/- 0.5 psi. Check.

They inflate/test football pressure in a 70 deg F locker room. Check

They then use those footballs in a game which the temperature could vary from -20 F to 120 F. What???

Therefor the pressure could vary in a football originally inflated to 13 psi from 8.3 psi to 15.6 psi depending on the game time temp. Wow!!

So why did they care about air pressure?? They didn't.

Just as ANGR89 and many others have posted, this was only about creating a distraction. That's all it was.

While I agree that the NFL will never publish anything that exonerates NE, it should be pointed out that what they are doing isn't totally ridiculous.

We're all ridiculing the NFL's testing procedure because it'll fail to show the effects of the Ideal Gas Law.

But why should the NFL care about the IGL? The NFL has two reasons to not care about the IGL: (1) They only care that balls aren't tampered with after checkin, and (2) They don't want to create info that could exonerate NE.

Even if the NFL were not a bunch of NE-hating corrupt hacks, position (1) is a perfectly reasonable position to take. I see nothing wrong with saying "We don't care what the weather does to ball pressure so long as nobody screws with the balls".

Given that they're only looking for tampering then the procedure of measuring the balls indoors right after checkin and then measuring them later, indoors, after they have a chance to equilibriate, is fine. If the pressure is (within error bounds) where it was at the start -- no tampering. If it isn't, then there was likely tampering.

This is actually a nice solution, when I think about it. Back when the NFL announced they were going to crack down on ball pressure we were all wondering how they were going to deal with the balls being all sorts of different pressures depending on the on-field temp. Would they have to publish conversion charts, etc.? What they came up with is actually rather elegant. Don't worry about any of that -- just let the balls equilibriate in the same environment they were initially measured in and test them again and see if they are at their original pressures. It's a nice way to check for tampering.

That gives the NFL all the information it really needs to know. That it also will not generate any NE-exonerating info is a nice bonus for the corrupt hacks.

 

[IllegalContact]

Not to be pedantic but weighed is incorrect. The mass/weight of the air does not change.
They measure the pressure in pounds per square inch.

wrong..............my oxygen tank for welding is heavier when it is full

 

[QuantumMechanic]

wrong..............my oxygen tank for welding is heavier when it is full

That's because it has more molecules of oxygen in it when it is full then when it is empty.

The AFCCG footballs had the same number of air molecules in them when they were at 12.5 PSI as they did when they were at 11 PSI. However, when the footballs got cold the molecules moved more slowly, dropping the pressure.

The IGL is: PV = nRT

In both cases V and R are constant (R is always constant since it is a...constant ).

In your case, T is the same before and after but n decreases.

In the footballs' case n is the same before and after but T decreases.

Only a change in n affects the mass of the tank/ball because n is the number of molecules (i.e. actual stuff) in the tank/ball.

 

[IllegalContact]

That's because it has more molecules of oxygen in it when it is full then when it is empty.

The AFCCG footballs had the same number of air molecules in them when they were at 12.5 PSI as they did when they were at 11 PSI. However, when the footballs got cold the molecules moved more slowly, dropping the pressure.

The IGL is: PV = nRT

In both cases V and R are constant (R is always constant since it is a...constant ).

In your case, T is the same before and after but n decreases.

In the footballs' case n is the same before and after but T decreases.

Only a change in n affects the mass of the tank/ball because n is the number of molecules (i.e. actual stuff) in the tank/ball.

correct......I guess I misunderstood the original statement

 

[Nikolai]

That's because it has more molecules of oxygen in it when it is full then when it is empty.

The AFCCG footballs had the same number of air molecules in them when they were at 12.5 PSI as they did when they were at 11 PSI. However, when the footballs got cold the molecules moved more slowly, dropping the pressure.

The IGL is: PV = nRT

In both cases V and R are constant (R is always constant since it is a...constant ).

In your case, T is the same before and after but n decreases.

In the footballs' case n is the same before and after but T decreases.

Only a change in n affects the mass of the tank/ball because n is the number of molecules (i.e. actual stuff) in the tank/ball.

Exactly, the problem is that the NYJFL mistook the drop in pressure for missing molecules instead of decreased temperature.

 

[Tony2046]

While I agree that the NFL will never publish anything that exonerates NE, it should be pointed out that what they are doing isn't totally ridiculous.

We're all ridiculing the NFL's testing procedure because it'll fail to show the effects of the Ideal Gas Law.

But why should the NFL care about the IGL? The NFL has two reasons to not care about the IGL: (1) They only care that balls aren't tampered with after checkin, and (2) They don't want to create info that could exonerate NE.

Even if the NFL were not a bunch of NE-hating corrupt hacks, position (1) is a perfectly reasonable position to take. I see nothing wrong with saying "We don't care what the weather does to ball pressure so long as nobody screws with the balls".

Given that they're only looking for tampering then the procedure of measuring the balls indoors right after checkin and then measuring them later, indoors, after they have a chance to equilibriate, is fine. If the pressure is (within error bounds) where it was at the start -- no tampering. If it isn't, then there was likely tampering.

That gives the NFL all the information it really needs to know. That it also will not generate any NE-exonerating info is a nice bonus for the corrupt hacks.

I agree that #1 is their argument or premise but I think it's a facade.

We'll let the QB scuff the living crap out of a football so that he can throw it better.

We'll let them wear gloves so that they can get a better grip.

We'll let receivers wear gloves so they can catch it better.

But mess with the air pressure and your toast.


This had nothing to do with tampering. IMO They created this nefarious scheme because they desperately needed a distraction. A big one. None bigger than Tom Brady and the NE Patriots. I think they got caught off guard by the IGL but this was going to happen either way. IMO They may have searched out many angles etc....before they settled on air pressure.

Prior to deflategate Forbes reported that many big time advertisers were growing concerned with the NFL and its handling of its players. Ray Rice being one of them. I think deflategate served its purpose.

Anyways I am convinced that this was simply a scheme to get the focus off of the real NFL issues.

Might explain how they handled themselves in court.

 

[sb1]

Seems like technology could be applied to an official NFL game football to detect tampering without the need to measure air pressure and account for all the faults doing so.

Would be cool if they had something like a chemical marker on a game ball that would "stain" the football if a needle goes in and identify the ball as tampered. It would be same idea as the powder that turns stolen money blue.

 

[Ring 6]

Someone should tweet Curran, Florio, et al and ask them if they are investigating what the readings were. And if they are not releasing them, why not?
this should be a huge story, and our wonderful hometown media is more worried about who Tom Brady's friends are.

 

[Tuck]

While I agree that the NFL will never publish anything that exonerates NE, it should be pointed out that what they are doing isn't totally ridiculous.

We're all ridiculing the NFL's testing procedure because it'll fail to show the effects of the Ideal Gas Law.

But why should the NFL care about the IGL? The NFL has two reasons to not care about the IGL: (1) They only care that balls aren't tampered with after checkin, and (2) They don't want to create info that could exonerate NE.

Even if the NFL were not a bunch of NE-hating corrupt hacks, position (1) is a perfectly reasonable position to take. I see nothing wrong with saying "We don't care what the weather does to ball pressure so long as nobody screws with the balls".

Given that they're only looking for tampering then the procedure of measuring the balls indoors right after checkin and then measuring them later, indoors, after they have a chance to equilibriate, is fine. If the pressure is (within error bounds) where it was at the start -- no tampering. If it isn't, then there was likely tampering.

This is actually a nice solution, when I think about it. Back when the NFL announced they were going to crack down on ball pressure we were all wondering how they were going to deal with the balls being all sorts of different pressures depending on the on-field temp. Would they have to publish conversion charts, etc.? What they came up with is actually rather elegant. Don't worry about any of that -- just let the balls equilibriate in the same environment they were initially measured in and test them again and see if they are at their original pressures. It's a nice way to check for tampering.

That gives the NFL all the information it really needs to know. That it also will not generate any NE-exonerating info is a nice bonus for the corrupt hacks.

Thats exactly right. The NFL has always maintained the purpose of the testing procedure is to make sure nobody is circumventing the pregame procedures. It is not to look back and confirm or deny the supposed facts of Deflate gate. Now we would all like it be so and if the league was truly interested in integrity it would but thats not the case here.

 

[Angelpats]

Exactly, the problem is that the NYJFL mistook the drop in pressure for missing molecules instead of decreased temperature.

You are giving them too much credit. They don't know anything about molecules or temperature. The only thing the nyjfl knows is that if a ball is 12.5psi it should remain 12.5psi regardless if it's 100below freezing or dropped in a lava flow.

 

[Nikolai]

You are giving them too much credit. They don't know anything about molecules or temperature. The only thing the nyjfl knows is that if a ball is 12.5psi it should remain 12.5psi regardless if it's 100below freezing or dropped in a lava flow.

True enough...as long as it weighs more than a duck.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

Since about 1702 we have thought that the pressure of a gas is directly proportional to the Temperature (Kelvin), at a constant V and n.

After 313 years, we are finally putting this silly notion to a test.

And those tricksy NFL wizards just leave us HANGING, waiting for their results.

Next week they will see if a duck can turn lead into gold.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

wrong..............my oxygen tank for welding is heavier when it is full

So what? You added O2 to it
More molecules equals more weight/mass. The psi in footballs is with constant air inside...unless that bastid Brady let some out

 

[Ivan]

Bruschi nailed it yesterday when asked about The "testing," he simply said to remember the source, the NFL, and that they cannot be trusted.

 

[eom]

"Weighed"!? I'm gobsmacked that at this date, after all the discussion and debate, people are -still- this completely ignorant.

well, it's probably been mentioned in the other 6 pages of this thread, but as bruce allen sharply pointed out on twitter 'weighed' is kensil vocabulary -- he's the source.

 

[eom]

wrong..............my oxygen tank for welding is heavier when it is full

wat

 

[eom]

Since about 1702 we have thought that the pressure of a gas is directly proportional to the Temperature (Kelvin), at a constant V and n.

Finally, after 313 years, we are finally putting this silly notion to a test.

And those tricksy NFL wizards just leave us HANGING, waiting for their results.

Next week they will see if a duck can turn lead into gold.

it's a fair cop

 

[eom]

I believe kensil was quoted as "WE WILL USE MY LARGEST SCALES!!"