Trey Hill (young CB) in; Asante Cleveland cut

[Ivan]

Few things are as useless as PFF metrics. Football is a team sport and everything depends upon the efforts of the eleven not forty times and 3 cones. That people are now using it as a credible resource pretty much ruins any discussion it's used in. Kareem Mackenzie was the best player in football, Un f.cking believable.

 

[DaBruinz]

With 1) Jones, 2) Hall, 3) Kirkpatrick and 4) Dennard (obviously another first round pick), all set at CB for the Bengals, could it have simply been a numbers game with Hill? Seems a bit odd, doesn't it?

I mean, I realize that he was suspended in 2013 for the domestic issues/incident, and that he had some character concerns, but how in the world does someone fall from a round #1 mock draft to going undrafted altogether? Did their mock draft take place 5 years ago or something? This wasn't a case of a La'El Collins or Alfonzo Dennard who ruined their draft stock by doing something (edit: or having accusations) at the last minute. This was an incident from 2013 and by all accounts, a player who had grown into a fine full-time starter? What gives?

Ask Ernest Shazor..

 

[DaBruinz]

As for Troy Hill falling in the draft, remember that PFF are grading , largely on on field production whereas most in the draft grade on projecting to the NFL. I'm not sure Hill was a first rounder for anyone else. I must admit, I never watched him so can't really comment. Only thing I would say is that the value of 5'10, 180lb CBs that run 4.5 plus and play in a non-press scheme is somewhat diminished.

Edit: Rich Hill was a big fan of his FWIW.

NFL Draft Scout's highest rating of Hill was a late 6th/early 7th. Their Final rating of him was a late 7th/UDFA..

 

[VrabelJr]

Sites like PFF need to throw out a few crazy draft projections as a gamble. If they are right then they report on it non stop. If they miss then nobody talks about it.

 

[JJDChE]

I like the move but can we please get a corner over 6'0 please.

No kidding?! How will we ever win without a CB over 6'!?

Wait..what?

 

[DaBruinz]

His combine numbers are pretty brutal. Showed zero explosiveness. Terrible vertical, terrible long jump, slow 40. Small hands and very short wingspan (short arms). Add all that and the "maturity issues" and you have your answer.

As we all know though, great combine numbers doesn't always mean a great career, poor combine numbers doesn't mean a players sucks.

Combine numbers: (HH/ET)
40 - 4.46 / 4.55
20 - 2.58 / 2.66
10 - 1.57 / 1.60

Long Jump: 10'00
Vertical 32 1/2"

3cone - 6.81
Shuttle - 4.21

Sorry, but I don't see how you can call those numbers "BRUTAL". Especially when a 10' Broad Jump is pretty damn good. As is the 6.81 of the 3 cone.

 

[scott99]

Combine numbers: (HH/ET)
40 - 4.46 / 4.55
20 - 2.58 / 2.66
10 - 1.57 / 1.60

Long Jump: 10'00
Vertical 32 1/2"

3cone - 6.81
Shuttle - 4.21

Sorry, but I don't see how you can call those numbers "BRUTAL". Especially when a 10' Broad Jump is pretty damn good. As is the 6.81 of the 3 cone.

Collins had an almost 12' broad jump and a 38" vertical, and he's a 250 pound linebacker. 32.5 vertical is horrible for a 5'10" corner. 4.55 forty is pretty slow for a corner. I doubt his maturity issues were the only reason he was ranked so low. That being said, combine numbers aren't the end all be all. Let's see what this kid can do.

 

[DaBruinz]

Collins had an almost 12' broad jump and a 38" vertical, and he's a 250 pound linebacker. 32.5 vertical is horrible for a 5'10" corner. 4.55 forty is pretty slow for a corner. I doubt his maturity issues were the only reason he was ranked so low. That being said, combine numbers aren't the end all be all. Let's see what this kid can do.

Comparing anyone to Collin's Broad jump is just ridiculous and says you can't be bothered to look at what other CBs did. If you had done ANY sort of research, you'd know that the 10' broad jump (not long jump that's different and no used by the NFL) numbers were about average with the other CBs.
The 4.55 was from the Electronic timer. Most teams go by the Hand Held.. Most sites go by the hand held. As others pointed out, 40 times don't = game speed.

Also, it's funny how you dismiss his Pro-Day numbers when it comes to Vertical, Broad jump, and 3-cone. All of which he improved on.

 

[RayClay]

Sites like PFF need to throw out a few crazy draft projections as a gamble. If they are right then they report on it non stop. If they miss then nobody talks about it.

Yup. A woman named Jeane Dixon made quite a living doing that. When they're ridiculous, you only need to hit one or two.

 

[Ivan]

Vernon Gholston is the greatest player in football history

-PFF

 

[AzPatsFan]

Cleveland technically and payroll wise did lose a spot (and that sucks for Cleveland). However, it is unlikely he has certainly lost a spot in the near future or longer term future. Any PS player on the Patriots (and probably other teams) needs to know: (a) on the PS you are probably week to week every week, and (b) if you are cut from the PS you are probably still week to week unless you catch on elsewhere or just bombed out.
Cleveland was called up and I believe he even started a game. I assume this means he showed something while on the PS. So unless he did something quite bad in the eyes of the coaches, I assume he remains on the PS possibility chart in the short term future. ((I'm guessing a successful Iosefa debut made Cleveland a step even further down the chart.))

With the constant auditioning that BB and staff do, they learn and know several important things:
1) Who NOT to invite to next season's Training Camp.
2) Who they SHOULD invite to next season's Training Camp.
3) Who they can call on in an emergency THIS season.
4) An in-depth scouting report on strength and weaknesses if the player isi picked up by an opponent.
5) Where there are team weaknseses not susceptible to FA signings, IOW where to spend Draft picks.
AND
6) Occasionally finding a future STAR amid the dedritus.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

With the constant auditioning that BB and staff do, they learn and know several important things:
1) Who NOT to invite to next season's Training Camp.
2) Who they SHOULD invite to next season's Training Camp.
3) Who they can call on in an emergency THIS season.
4) An in-depth scouting report on strength and weaknesses if the player isi picked up by an opponent.
5) Where there are team weaknseses not susceptible to FA signings, IOW where to spend Draft picks.
AND
6) Occasionally finding a future STAR amid the dedritus.

So as starter after starter went down this year I lamented our terrible fate to my 1st wife.
She always responded, "Well why can't BB just find and sign some guy to replace them?"
Long lecture from me about the scarcity of elite NFL level talent, all the decent players are scouted and signed by 31 other teams, if crappy teams don't want these guys why would they help a SB contender...etc.
Then BB & Co goes and rifles through the trash heap of rehabbed IRed players and other dumpsters and somehow finds a body or 2 that at the very least make some halfway decent contribution proving me to be a Negative Nancy fool.
I should give up following this team.

 

[Wheelman]

Probably didnt help his drsft stock: Charged with strangling his girlfriend in college. Pled out to"menacing", a misdemeanor.

I hope he received counselling for this.

 

[JJDChE]

Was it Collins who had the ridiculous broad jump? I thought there was one player who had one that people were talking about being a possible world record or something.

EDIT: it was Byron Jones that broke the world record at this year's combine. Until that happened Collins had the combine record for the broad jump.

 

[manxman2601]

Vernon Gholston is the greatest player in football history

-PFF

You've just rendered your jihad against PFF completely meaningless.

 

[manxman2601]

His combine numbers are pretty brutal. Showed zero explosiveness. Terrible vertical, terrible long jump, slow 40. Small hands and very short wingspan (short arms). Add all that and the "maturity issues" and you have your answer.

As we all know though, great combine numbers doesn't always mean a great career, poor combine numbers doesn't mean a players sucks.

He had a quicker 40, a better broad, almost the same vert, an almost identical 3 cone and marginal slower shuttle than Logan Ryan. And if you take Leonard Johnson's pro day forty into account, Troy Hill is almost the same as Johnson, just with better quickness numbers. Seems like he's 'brutal' like a fox as far as BB is concerned.

 

[meatface]

I have to assume Cleveland will be right back on the Practice squad soon

 

[captain stone]

No kidding?! How will we ever win without a CB over 6'!?
Wait..what?

Brandon Browner says Hi.

 

[Soul_Survivor88]

 

[Hammer of Thor]

Nice knowing you Troy!

I assume the hope is that he'll get the last practice squad spot if he clears waivers again. Since he didn't play last week and the Pats were #31 in the waiver order when they claimed him, I would be hard pressed to see him not clearing this time. But you never know.