Trade ? for 2 #1's in 07...

[RayClay]

FWIW. I'd trade Graham and Watson for Boldin. There are many tight ends out there with the skill level of Graham/Watson. We haven't had a wr like
Boldin since I.Fryar. And Fryar was a head case. A big wide-out who is
an excellent receiver and blocks like a te is nothing to sneeze at. Boldin blocks nearly as well as H.Ward and has caught 100 balls 2x in 3 years.

Our lines are pretty set. We haven't drafted a good lb yet in BB's
tenure. He doesn't want to teach someone how to play and then lose
them to free agency when they become productive. He looks for
the vets who fit his system. We haven't exactly drafted any great
db's either. E.Wilson,A.Samuel and Hobbs are ok. But, nothing great. If
there's a FA out there like a young Rodney or Rod Woodson.
Why not trade for him? We won't find anyone that good in the draft at
those possitions.

Please tell me you are not in the Pioli family and have no access to the Pats front office. Pleeeeeeeze!!!!!!

 

[RayClay]

PatsFaninPa, thanks for bringing up an interesting topic. FWIW, this thead is not stupid, IMO.

I agree, it's an idea the F.O. would explore for the right franchised player. Not real likely they'd trade 2 #1's, but possible.

As far as Graham and Watson for Boldin, I believe I restrained myself from using the "s" word.

 

[RayClay]

Ok. Since we are just throwing out ideas.

How about this deal?

Daniel Graham and one of our first round picks for Brian Urlacher?

Don't shoot me, its just a question......

Actually, I doubt we could get a deal like that. I'd take it if the money was right.

 

[14thDragon]

Ok. Since we are just throwing out ideas.

How about this deal?

Daniel Graham and one of our first round picks for Brian Urlacher?

Don't shoot me, its just a question......

I think it is a splendid idea. Now which one of us is going to get the entire bears front office drunk enough to agree to it?

 

[BradyManny]

Man, this board is getting outright hostile.

The Pats have traded away draft picks for
Dillon
Starks
Ted Washington
Gabriel
Andre Davis

and IIRC, have made RFA offers to two players that were matched by the player's team..

Yeah, but none of those involved 2 first round picks.

 

[patchick]

I'm shocked that someone would post a legit question/topic on this board only to have a bunch of people call him an idiot. :eyeroll:

I think the orig. poster is talking about offering a high-level RFA tender, which IMO is a great idea is someone the caliber of Boldin is available.

Actually, the original poster was very clearly not talking about that. He's saying forfeit two #1's for signing another team's franchise player, not one #1 for an RFA.

But...I don't get why everybody thinks it's so stupid either. Imagine for a moment that the Patriots defeat the Seahawks in the SB. Then you're sitting with #31 & 32, the cheapest possible two #1s to pay. Quick--would you trade both for a top-3 pick in the draft? Of course you would, it would be an absolute steal. So why wouldn't you trade them for a guy who has already proven himself to be an elite, all-pro caliber player?

Or to put it another way, imagine the Patriots slapped a franchise tag on Tom Brady. You think a dozen other teams wouldn't be tempted to give up 2 #1's to sign him? And wouldn't it be well worth it?

I certainly don't think it's likely that the Patriots would do this -- there would have to be a rare talent available at a position of need. But the question didn't deserve the abuse it's getting, IMO. And an RFA is intriguing too, except you'd have to outbid the current team. Sound likely?

 

[QuiGon]

I know this is un-Patriot like. But, would you trade both picks for a
player another team franchised. Would have to be a young proven
veteran. Who is unquestionably a premier player. Orlando Pace and
Walter Jones would be two examples of the types of players I'm talking
about. I would consider Anquon Boldin or a stud-db. Don't see many
lb's out there who would be great in our system.

If any team franchises any player than NE would never want that player because they would never want to pay that player the type of money he would command. You can even forget about the picks - are the Pats going to want to pay $5, $6, $7 million per year for Orlando Pace...?

 

[BradyManny]

The Pats dynasty has been built upon getting the most out of cheap young talent and cheap veteran talent. We've made exceptions - Brady, Seymour, Colvin and you can argue Dillon - to that rule, but I don't see us handing over two draft picks on top of having to pay a salary that will take up a big chunk of the payroll. That's like giving up btwn 2-4 players for one (the 2 draft picks + not being able to sign other players with money used on more expensive one) and that's not how the Pats do it.

Brady and Seymour are our franchise players. The more draft picks the better - it extends our chance of being perenial contenders.

 

[patchick]

Brady and Seymour are our franchise players. The more draft picks the better - it extends our chance of being perenial contenders.

Of course, Seymour and Warren were both taken in the top half of the first round -- a place we (happily) haven't visited since. Looking ahead, the team could certainly use a young, impact talent somewhere behind the DL. The team has enough high-caliber youth at most positions that they could well be thinking quality over quantity next year.

 

[BradyManny]

Of course, Seymour and Warren were both taken in the top half of the first round -- a place we (happily) haven't visited since. Looking ahead, the team could certainly use a young, impact talent somewhere behind the DL. The team has enough high-caliber youth at most positions that they could well be thinking quality over quantity next year.

Right, but given our track record with late first round picks and the rumored depth of the draft, I say that's a way to get quality, quantity and price. Hmm. That sounds like the Bernie and Phyls ad.

 

[Brady'sButtBoy]

First of all, I applaud Miguel for noting the ridiculous hostility in this thread and others. We are fans having fun talking about our team. If there is anyone here who believes they know how BB and Pioli are going to operate the team in the future then you're delusional. Relax and try to keep it fun - that's what this whole NFL production is all about.

Patchick makes a good observation - the team is really starting to brim with youth. Bruschi and Harrison seem like the two guys who need stud replacements in the system soon. If we were to replace them in the draft then the defense would be very young and quite inexperienced in certain spots come two seasons from now. Given the value BB places on LB play and that we really need two new ILB's since Vrabel reaches full potential on the outside and Seau is purely a stop gap measure, a convincing argument to turn some high draft picks into a power stud ILB can easily be made.

 

[VJCPatriot]

FWIW. I'd trade Graham and Watson for Boldin. There are many tight ends out there with the skill level of Graham/Watson. We haven't had a wr like
Boldin since I.Fryar. And Fryar was a head case. A big wide-out who is
an excellent receiver and blocks like a te is nothing to sneeze at. Boldin blocks nearly as well as H.Ward and has caught 100 balls 2x in 3 years.

Ok your first post had me scratching my head but here is where you completely lost me.

Are you fricking SERIOUS? You'd trade a blossoming star tight end like Ben Watson for a wideout AND you throw in Graham to boot?

Sorry to tell you this but specimens like Ben Watson don't grow on trees. The Pats lucked out when they had the luxury to draft a freak like Watson right after they had drafted Graham.

The Pats system VALUES tight ends highly or they wouldn't have spent two #1 draft picks on that position. And now you want to trade the youth at that position as well as the veteran? Leaving the Pats with who to play the position?

Yes please tell me how many rings Irving Fryar and Boldin have won. I fail to see how this makes our team better. You're beginning to sound a lot like Daniel Snyder. You'll make a move just to get the "big name".

Sorry but in real football big names and fantasy numbers don't win football games. A solid team DOES.

I understand some fans are overreacting to the loss of Deion Branch but guess what the Pats already have receivers who can step up and fill a role. They just need some time. Please turn off hysteria mode, take a deep breath and enjoy watching the season. I think Mr. Jackson will soon make you forget all about Mr. Branch.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Enjoyed the thread and am looking forward to exploring these scenario's later on down the line. Imo it would have to depend on who is out there come draft time and if we think we can get them or not. Either way we can't lose,I love having draft picks because it makes it so entertaining in the offseason. Can't wait.

 

[Wotan_the_Wanderer]

I know this is un-Patriot like. But, would you trade both picks for a player another team franchised. Would have to be a young proven veteran. Who is unquestionably a premier player. Orlando Pace and
Walter Jones would be two examples of the types of players I'm talking
about. I would consider Anquon Boldin or a stud-db. Don't see many
lb's out there who would be great in our system.

If the Pats were to move Light over to RT, then I hope it's because a rookie thoroughly outplays him in camp given that carrying either Pace or Jones with Light as tackles would mean something like $12M in annual cap hit for the two tackle spots. And noway in hell I'm forking up two firsts for a receiver. That's just insane, man. So keep the firsts. Trade them to move up if you have to or trade one for a better 2008 first round pick depending on how the draft unfolds.

Lastly, Adalius Thomas would look great as an ILB for the Pats.

 

[patsfaninpa]

Thanks Miguel. I'm old enough to know that Bill Belichick didn't
invent football as some around here think. And, he's a lot more creative
than having the BB Commandments set in stone. Back in the day I think
Ted Hendricks was acquired in a trade like that. And, it was a great
trade for the Raiders. I don't want chopped liver. I want a guy who
is a star-player. Who thinks playing for a good organiation might be
better than hanging around a team like; Arizona,Houston,New Orleans,
Oakland,SF OR Green Bay. Or, a team like those.

If anyone thinks we're
getting pro-bowl production from our te's they're deluding themselves.
Antonio Gates and Shockey are pro-bowlers. Not our guys.
Graham can block like one. Can't catch worth a lick. Watson has
tremendous potential, but hasn't produced yet. I said yet for all
you guys who think he's the next Kellen Winslow. I would still take
Boldin over them. He's not a prima donna as many of you think. He's
more like Hines Ward(with more athletic ability) than Randy Moss or TO.

And, I didn't say the Pats way of doing thinks was wrong either. I said
that we've done a tremendous job of building our roster that might allow us
the opportunity to make a move like this. Reading comprehension not a strong
point with some. You guys do need to lighten up a little. It's like before the
draft when I read post after post about how we don't draft interior ol.
Voila....Logan Mankins...Skill position....put the crack pipe down..Voila II..
Maroney and C.Jackson. No problem players..Corey Dillon.. More than one
way to skin a cat. And, I'm glad our front office knows that as opposed
to some posters who don't have access to our front office.

 

[DaBruinz]

also from what i heard the other day on fsn the pats have 2 1st rounders a 2nd rounder and 3 3rd rounders we can get some serious depth and young talent next year!

The Pats have currently:

2 - 1st rounders
1 - 2nd rounder
1 - 3 rd rounder
1 - 4th rounder
0 - 5th rounder (They traded theirs to the Raiders)
1 - 6th rounder
1 - 7th rounder

Supposedly, the Pats have the Cardinals 7th rounder And this could become a 6th rounder depending on how hochstein does.

The Pats are looking at a 4th, 2-6ths and a 7th as free agency compensation for the losses of Givens, Ashworth, Vinatieri and Andre Davis.

The 4th rounder for Givens could turn into a 3rd, but Givens would have to become Marvin Harrison for the rest of the year for that to happen.

The 6th rounder for Ashworth could become a 5th rounder depending on how he plays.

I don't forsee any changes in the 6th for Vinatieri or the 7th for Davis.

The current draft picks are courtesy of Miguel's website. And the comp picks are my speculation based on AdamJT13s comp pick evaluations over the last several year.

 

[DaBruinz]

Thanks Miguel. I'm old enough to know that Bill Belichick didn't
invent football as some around here think. And, he's a lot more creative
than having the BB Commandments set in stone. Back in the day I think
Ted Hendricks was acquired in a trade like that. And, it was a great
trade for the Raiders. I don't want chopped liver. I want a guy who
is a star-player. Who thinks playing for a good organiation might be
better than hanging around a team like; Arizona,Houston,New Orleans,
Oakland,SF OR Green Bay. Or, a team like those.

If anyone thinks we're
getting pro-bowl production from our te's they're deluding themselves.
Antonio Gates and Shockey are pro-bowlers. Not our guys.
Graham can block like one. Can't catch worth a lick. Watson has
tremendous potential, but hasn't produced yet. I said yet for all
you guys who think he's the next Kellen Winslow. I would still take
Boldin over them. He's not a prima donna as many of you think. He's
more like Hines Ward(with more athletic ability) than Randy Moss or TO.

And, I didn't say the Pats way of doing thinks was wrong either. I said
that we've done a tremendous job of building our roster that might allow us
the opportunity to make a move like this. Reading comprehension not a strong
point with some. You guys do need to lighten up a little. It's like before the
draft when I read post after post about how we don't draft interior ol.
Voila....Logan Mankins...Skill position....put the crack pipe down..Voila II..
Maroney and C.Jackson. No problem players..Corey Dillon.. More than one
way to skin a cat. And, I'm glad our front office knows that as opposed
to some posters who don't have access to our front office.

Well, I hate to break this to you, but your talent evaluation leaves a TON to be desired and I don't care how long you've been following the Pats.

1) Graham can catch. Or did you bother to watch the games recently
2) Watson is basically in his 2nd year and he's blossoming into a monster
3) If you knew anything about the Patriots offense, you'd know that they spread the ball around. So, guys like Watson, Graham, et al, will never have PRO BOWL numbers. But who gives a flying f**K about that popularity contest? Being an ALL-PRO is more important. And, while I doubt they will be All-Pro status, they won't be your average Joes either.
4) Yes, there is more than one way to skin a cat. However, as Miguel pointed out, there isn't anyone with that talent that will be on the market anytime soon. And Anquan Boldin is NOT worth 2 1st round draft picks.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

The Pats have currently:

2 - 1st rounders
1 - 2nd rounder
1 - 3 rd rounder
1 - 4th rounder
0 - 5th rounder (They traded theirs to the Raiders)
1 - 6th rounder
1 - 7th rounder

Supposedly, the Pats have the Cardinals 7th rounder And this could become a 6th rounder depending on how hochstein does.

The Pats are looking at a 4th, 2-6ths and a 7th as free agency compensation for the losses of Givens, Ashworth, Vinatieri and Andre Davis.

The 4th rounder for Givens could turn into a 3rd, but Givens would have to become Marvin Harrison for the rest of the year for that to happen.

The 6th rounder for Ashworth could become a 5th rounder depending on how he plays.

I don't forsee any changes in the 6th for Vinatieri or the 7th for Davis.

The current draft picks are courtesy of Miguel's website. And the comp picks are my speculation based on AdamJT13s comp pick evaluations over the last several year.

Db, buddy you've got to try this when sober! Gorin, not Hochstein or Ashworth, earned us a 7th with his trade. If he gets enough playing time he could develop into a 6th rounder - otherwise a nice recap.

 

[flutie2phelan]

....
Supposedly, the Pats have the Cardinals 7th rounder And this could become a 6th rounder depending on how hochstein does.
....

Nice data work-up.

We know you mean GORIN, of course.

 

[patman52]

First, Boldin would not be a RFA where the most Arizona could get is a 1 and a three. God, If seattle thought Branch was worth a 1, and 6.5 a year. Imagine what they think Boldin is worth.

I am not sure but Arizona I think would still have the right to match any offer if he was tagged with the franschise designation.

I think Micheal Lewis will be a target next year, especially if Wilson continues to whiff. With LB like Antuan Peek and Fletcher targets at LB..