WelshPat
Third String But Playing on Special Teams
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What's missing from this offense is Tom Brady. Brady has not played a complete game this year. Now we're seeing a disturbing trend where he's not ready to play when the game starts. O-line has been good this year yet Brady has been wildly inconsistent with this throws. Too many balls at guys feet, on their hips etc. Too many 3 and outs because Brady can't connect with an open receiver. Don't know what Tom's "issues" are with his lack of readiness to play/his bad throwing mechanics but he needs to start answering for it with the media. The kids are making their mistakes but so is Brady. He has not been the same player for 2 years running....
the hurry up offense worked the best , not the traditional set up offense..
I disagree, but we only have four games each with and without him which is not a great sample size. I think the Pats have played well on offense when facing a less than great defense and crappy when they faced a good one. The Pats have just faced better defenses without him for the most part.
As for the offense being consistently mediocre, they put 23 on Baltimore which is more than the Pats put on with Moss vs. the Jets or Dolphins. They put up 28 vs. the Vikes.
LMAO... I love how you guys are so happy and that our offense is great without Moss. Then we lose a game and all of the sudden we need him back.:bricks:
Brandon Tate reminds me of Bethel Johnson, the number five receiver on the 2003-2004 New England Patriots.Tate is useful simply because he's such a threat in the return game and can alter field position. But as a wideout, to quote an old BB line the most important thing is for them to get open and catch the football.
Tate does neither well.
Pats are 0-4 without Moss this year, and never won a thing until we got him. Brady stinks unless he has Moss. He is a system QB and needs Moss for the system to work. We had our chance and blew it by trading him. We are doomed to another decade of losing seasons, not to mention being tied the worst record in the NFL. You should hang yourself to end the misery. I'd hang myself, too, but I'm already hung (or so I've been told.)Sorry but Moss stretched the defense i dont want to hear about Brandon Tate... when you cant move the ball against the Cleveland browns.. sorry this team will have trouble the next 4 weeks .. Pitt is a loss, indy is a toss up because its home.. if detrot does not beat its self then we might squeeze one out there but the jets will stop us... then its a fight for a wild card.. embarrsing loss today..
By George, I think he's got it!Ok, the Pats lost the Jets game because the Pats had Moss? So we need to get Moss, but only games where he doesn't have to be a focal point of the offense. In those games, the Pats ned to deactivate Moss.
I'm not exactly sure what basis you have to disagree. All of the facts show that the offense was better in the 4 games with Moss than the 4 without. The only potential argument would be that the defenses in the latter 4 games were significantly more difficult. It's possible but the disparity in Brady's numbers and the offense are pretty damn large from first 4 games to last 4 games.
First of all they put up 23 in 4+ quarters in 13 drives against baltimore, and how much did they put up against Cleveland? Anyway I've already done the breakdown of how many more drives/chances the Patriots have had in the games after Moss (i.e. the defensive improvement has given the offense more chance). Every single offensive number you can think of has taken a medium to large dive from the first 4 games to the last 4 games.
Brady went from 69.7%, 7.5 YPA, 9 TD 2 INT to 58.3%, 6.6 YPA 5 TD 2 INT. If you want to blame that all on the opposing defenses, well I just don't buy it.
All the facts? Which imaginary facts showed the Pats offense played better in the Jets or Dolphins games than some of the games without Moss. But you might buy into the philosophy since Brady was trying to force the ball into Moss against the Jets that it doesn't count. Two of Brady's four INTs came with Moss on the team.
First, the Pats offense put up the same amount of points today as the Pats offense put against the Jets and the Dolphins both with Moss. Other than today, the game vs. the Jets Brady had his lowest completion percentage, most INTs, and most strip sacks. Brady has his fewest passing yards vs. the Dolphins.
Again, take out the Cincy and Bills game and see how they did. Against, good defenses, this offense sputtered even with Moss.
I am not saying the Pats offense is better without Moss. I am saying it wasn't particularly very good with Moss. Against good defenses, the Pats have struggled on offense with or without Moss and there is no way to spin it. If the Pats could play Buffalo every week, this offense would be great.
Imaginary facts? Every single objective measurement you can think of has taken a hit from the first 4 games to the last 4 games. If you want to go searching for times when they played bad in the first 4 games of course you'll find it. The jets game was bad, but I never argued that every single game in the first 4 was better than every single game in the last 4.
Seriously how are you even making sense right now? 2 of Brady's INTs came with Moss (in one game) and 2 came without Moss (in one game). What on EARTH is the point of that? Just look at every single measurable statistic there is. Well ok fine his INT rate went down a little bit as a product of the higher attempts but his TD rate has gone WAY down.
TOP has gone down, yards per drive, points per drive, completion %, yards per attempt, etc... etc....
Again you still can't argue my point, you rather nitpick down to something that fits your argument. First 4 games total > last 4 games total is a FACT.
Yeah let's just keep ripping crap out until it fits with your argument, that's great. I've acknowledged the only possible argument you have is opposing defenses as the CAUSE of the drop in production but to argue the offense has been better is absurd.
What's funny is that in the 4 games with Moss there was exactly 1 bad game. Yet you keep saying how it wasn't good with him. You realize Brady's completion % in FOUR games was 70% right? That's INCLUDING that bad game against the Jets. How the hell is that "not particularly good". You only use stats to help your case, you aren't looking at anything objectively. For example you use YARDAGE to claim he wasn't that good in Miami and that was one of his "bad" games when he threw for almost 80% completion, we won 41-14 and they scored on 4 of their 7 drives that weren't end-of-half.
It's surely possible that the opposing defenses were the biggest cause of the large loss in production, but you don't really have much in the way to prove that. The Jets are a top 2 defense in the league, and we played a terrible game so yeah the offense was not perfect with Moss here, they weren't perfect in 2007 either.
For the LAST time, Moss' value went BEYOND his personal production.