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This isn't the worst pass defense you've seen

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by convertedpatsfan, Oct 31, 2012.

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  1. convertedpatsfan

    convertedpatsfan PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #12 Jersey

    New England Patriots could be poised for big second half - ESPN Boston

    Three-point stance: Pats at midseason - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

    A couple of interesting articles comparing the first 8 games from 2011 to 2012, and looking at some trends in the first 8 games of 2012.

    There are a few things that jump out on the defensive side.

    First, for all the complaining we do about our pass defense (and I do a lot of it in the game chat), they've actually given up 10 FEWER 20+ yard passes this season compared to 2011. But it's worth noting the percentage of those attempts has gone up

    And secondly, while we all agree Chandler Jones has been amazing, the Patriots only have 2 more sacks compared to the same point last year (17 to 15). I hate using sacks as a metric but hurry numbers are hard to find. Either way, it's not as if the pass rush has been significantly better than 2011. It's a good start, but the secondary has been left out to dry at times. As Bedard pointed out earlier, on Ninko's sack/forced fumble on Sanchez, that took almost 6 seconds and was really a coverage sack.

    Also, while Chung has struggled when we see him on the field trying to cover a receiver, it's worth noting that the yards per attempt have gone up significantly since he's been gone.

    Defensive backs as a whole usually only get noticed when a ball is sent their way, which usually means the QB thinks the WR is open (unless it's Sanchez), but there are plenty of good plays going on in the background which force a QB to not target a receiver and move on in their progression. We don't really recognize that.

    I remember re-watching the Broncos game and looking at targets, and McCourty was thrown at only 7 times out of Manning's 44 attempts, but because he was beaten on a crucial 4th down, people were posting about how he was being picked on and how that huge play was set up to target him (despite Manning progressing through 3, maybe 4 reads before throwing the ball).

    I do think the pass defense will improve. Last year's did by approximately 50 yards a game in the second half of the season. And it does seem like Chung does have some impact on the deep passing game. And I still think Gregory will be a good player for us, even though he's made some poor plays at times. It would also probably help the development of Wilson to have two vets back there who could help him out as opposed to a guy still learning the position himself in McCourty or potentially Moore.

    But no matter what you may think, this isn't the worst pass defense you've ever seen. Last year's was just as bad, if not worse, in many, many ways. We saw that group improve significantly in the second half; I'm not saying we will do it again, but that there is a bit of hope.
     
  2. robertweathers

    robertweathers Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Interesting info on Chung.

    Thought I saw a stat by Bedard or somewhere that stated that the pass rush had fewer hits and hurries per QB dropback this year compared to last year.
     
  3. Gumby

    Gumby 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    #11 Jersey

    So, I should be happy that they arent the equal of the worst NE pass D in the last 20 years. :bricks:

    Good to remain optimistic. ;)
    (Personally, I am most/just-continue-to-be frustrated by the inconsistency, when it seemed [and still does] like there was [is] enough talent there for them to be in the 8-15 ranked pass D.)

    If the problem truly is just youth-miscommunications etc; then we should see a good BB/coaching led improvement as you usually get in the second half of the season. The rest is just managing/being-lucky to keep them healthy.
     
  4. oldrover

    oldrover 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    #50 Jersey

    Defensive passer rating of 96... I mean, seriously? :bricks:
     
  5. PatsSox363804

    PatsSox363804 In the Starting Line-Up

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    Ever? They aren't even the worst pass defense in the league right now. That doesn't make them good or championship caliber which is what we're hoping for.
     
  6. PATRIOTSFANINPA

    PATRIOTSFANINPA Pro Bowl Player

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    #12 Jersey

    One thing not mentioned is the pass rush is not as good as last year at this time.....Carter and Anderson were much of the reason.
     
  7. Dragda

    Dragda Yes, it's really me... PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #93 Jersey

    I'm not that interested in monitoring modest improvement over last year. I'd like to see us fix this. We've corrected a lot of issues in the BB era, so I expected that we'd fix our secondary. Some of it is plainly scheme. We have a safety sitting in zone in an area where there are no opposing players. It's hard to help your defense when you are no where near the ball. Other teams seem to know this. When we run a one deep safety, they send two players deep is an easy example of how teams are playing us.

    Also, our DBs bite too frequently on play action and are not fast enough to recover.

    How about disguise or something? I am probably oversimplifying the problem, but we once had Earthwind Moreland and Hank Poteat helping us back there. You'd think these guys we have now would at least be capable of being as good as those guys.

    All this said, it is better without Ighedibo and Sergio Brown.
     
  8. Danger Zone

    Danger Zone 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    I thought it worth noting that while this thread is about the pass defense, these guys have the top ranked rush defense, only allowing 3.49 yards per carry.

    It still rips at my stomach to watch teams pass at will on us, but I feel like we plugged in some key players this year.

    Our defensive problems seem very manageable to me. Strong focus on DBs, shore up safety and a nod to the pass rush.
     
  9. doesntmatter1

    doesntmatter1 Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    I have seen many horrible secondaries but too my eyes the 04 maybe 05 colts take the cake. Jason David and the rest were just garbage. They were so lucky that they had freeney, raheim brock, mathis, etc to give them a ridiculous pass rush. And they couldn't stop the run either. Only the rams(pre fisher) in recent times have been as bad on the run d as those colt teams.
     
  10. Patriots Nation NY

    Patriots Nation NY Banned

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    can someone direct me to the"rationalization" thread? Oh wait .. :cool:
     
  11. Danger Zone

    Danger Zone 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Can someone direct me to a I'm-Going-to-*****-Every-Time-the-Pats-Aren't-Perfect fan?

    Oh wait..
     
  12. Patriots Nation NY

    Patriots Nation NY Banned

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    complete opposite of that my student .. eyeball test with me, not pretty cool stats n rankings .. Danger Guy ..
     
  13. ATippett56

    ATippett56 Pro Bowl Player

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    The New England Patriots defense is ranked 28th in passing yards allowed per game:

    NFL Football Stats - NFL Team Opponent Passing Yards per Game on TeamRankings.com

    The New England Patriots defense is ranked 28th in passing yards per attempt:

    NFL Football Stats - NFL Team Opponent Yards per Pass Attempt on TeamRankings.com

    The New England Patriots defense is ranked 27th in opponent average team passer rating:

    NFL Football Stats - NFL Team Opponent Average Team Passer Rating on TeamRankings.com

    The New England Patriots defense is ranked 25th in opponent third down conversion percentage:

    NFL Football Stats - NFL Team Opponent Third Down Conversion Percentage on TeamRankings.com
     
  14. Danger Zone

    Danger Zone 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    In that case I apologize. I read your reply as trying to rain on a post making a positive observation about the defense.
     
  15. convertedpatsfan

    convertedpatsfan PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #12 Jersey

    The defense can obviously do better, but things can get better pretty quickly.

    And despite how terrible the defense was after 8 games last season, it's worth noting they improved by a significant margin, and gave up the 4th-lowest passer rating and 5th-fewest passing yards per game in the play-offs.

    So there is hope that things are going to get better as the season progresses.
     
  16. ATippett56

    ATippett56 Pro Bowl Player

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    Two words:

    Tim Tebow
     
  17. nekromantique

    nekromantique On the Game Day Roster

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    anderson wasnt a huge factor in the first half of the season last year. and the pass rush got alot better in the second half of the season last year.
     
  18. ATippett56

    ATippett56 Pro Bowl Player

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    Mark Anderson - Mister Garbage Time Sack?
     
  19. convertedpatsfan

    convertedpatsfan PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #12 Jersey

    Yeah, Tebow plays a part in that no doubt. Then again, Tebow torched the #1 pass defense Pittsburgh for 316 yards the week before...

    The Ravens game was pretty rough. The Giants played well, but I wouldn't say we lost that game because of our secondary. Eli had beaten much better defenses than ours on the way to the Super Bowl and put up more passing yards and TDs in doing so.

    I also think people overvalue the good ol' days and tend to forget that despite some great defenses during the dynasty years, we still gave up 365 yards to Kurt Warner (understandable), 323 yards and 3 TDs to Jake Delhomme (WHAT???), and 357 yards and 3 TDs (3 INTs) to a vomiting Donovan McNabb. And that was back when it was much easier to cover a receiver and be physical.

    In that context, 296 yards and 1 TD for Eli is hardly a brutal showing by our secondary against a hot QB. It wasn't great either, but I think people are losing perspective about the D. I get that we're not the 1985 Bears or the 2000 Ravens. But it's nowhere near as bad as many think, and has a chance to turn out to be pretty decent.
     
  20. ATippett56

    ATippett56 Pro Bowl Player

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    Compare the quarterback ratings of Tom Brady to Eli Manning in the Super Bowl and Tom Brady to Joe Flacco in the AFC Championship Game.

    The New England Patriots will most likely face two of the following quarterbacks in the AFC Playoffs this season:

    Schaub
    Flacco
    Manning
    Roethlisberger
     
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