Think We Need A Better D? Maybe Not...

Discussion in ' - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Brady'sButtBoy, Feb 5, 2013.

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  1. Brady'sButtBoy

    Brady'sButtBoy 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    #12 Jersey

    Check this from ESPN's TMQ column -

    "• The Ravens were awful on defense, yet won the Super Bowl. Not only did Baltimore allow the San Francisco 49ers 468 yards of offense, it was the most allowed by a Super Bowl victor: the 2009 Saints have now dropped to second, winning while allowing 432 yards. Through the postseason, the Ravens allowed an average of 428 yards per game. That's awful! It's so awful, 428 yards per game would have made Baltimore the second-worst defense in the league during the regular season. Before this postseason, no team had ever given up 375 yards or more in three consecutive playoff wins. Baltimore did this in four consecutive playoff wins. The Ravens' defense was awful!But offense rules this decade. In the postseason, Baltimore averaged 31 points and 410 offensive yards. And when everything was on the line, Baltimore's defense saved the best for last."

    It was Baltimore's big play ability on offense that made the difference for them, not hard hitting Pollard, Lewis, Reed, etc. The Raven's D managed one big stop, at the very end of the game, and that was much more about how they played it -blitzing like crazy at exactly the right time - not very much about the talent on their defense.

    Many notable facts in column including this one - 6 of last 8 SB winners didn't have a bye.

    So forget about franchising Talib, Bill, please find Brady some stud WRs like Boldin and Smith. The two SB's and this year's AFC championship were lost because the offense didn't score enough, not because the D didn't come through. 14, 17, and 13 points just won't get you anywhere these days in the big games. Look at those point totals - didn't even get to 20 in any of those games, that's just plain awful offense.
  2. randomk1

    randomk1 In the Starting Line-Up

    #12 Jersey

    They looked plenty good enough when holding us to 13 points
  3. Sicilian

    Sicilian Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    Balance wins championships. Gotta be able to score points, gotta be able to stall opponents drives. I'm hoping the Pats are going into this off-season trying to improve in both areas, not because they necessarily NEED either one desperately, but because if you're not trying to improve you're probably going to slip backwards.
  4. Brady_to_Moss

    Brady_to_Moss Butler Island is here Supporter

    #95 Jersey

    we need CBs and LBs that can cover and for the love of god we need a pass rush this year...
  5. randomk1

    randomk1 In the Starting Line-Up

    #12 Jersey

    Pass rush is overrated. Stop the run is where it's at.
  6. Rob0729

    Rob0729 Supporter Supporter

    #12 Jersey

    Baltimore's defense stepped up in the playoffs. They shut down the Colts. They stalled the Broncos (remember two of the Broncos' TDs were on special teams). They shutdown the Pats' offense in the second half. They shut down the 49ers' offense until they came out flat after an extra long halftime followed shortly after by a 35 minute break due to the blackout (this report focuses on yards and ignores the fact that the Ravens held the 49ers to 6 points in the first half).

    Yes, in the regular season the Ravens' defense was mediocre. But in the playoffs, they played pretty well for the most part.
  7. Palm Beach Pats Fan

    Palm Beach Pats Fan In the Starting Line-Up

    #12 Jersey

    Some people simply cannot stop confusing YARDS ALLOWED with DEFENSE.

    A part of defense is forcing turnovers.
    A part of defense is making drives end in field goals rather than touchdowns, and short punts rather than FGs.

    SONS_OF_BELICHICK Third String But Playing on Special Teams

    #93 Jersey

    the key is stops when you need them........we couldnt stop a nose bleed against the ravens...
  9. BradyManny

    BradyManny Pro Bowl Player

    People look to blindly at many stats, yardage is one of the worst one to look at.

    Of SB42, SB46 & the 2013AFCCG, only the last was the offense to blame. The other, the defense couldn't get off the field, the game was shrunk nearly in half, and the amount of points scored is muddled by the fact that offense didn't get that many touches (SB42 & SB46) and when it did, it's field position was atrocious (SB46).

    The 13AFCCG falls squarely on the offense. It didn't execute when it needed to. The defense played as well as it's played in years in that first half, and the offense could've and should've buried the Ravens when it had the chance. But, it didn't execute, and in hindsight, we can see it also didn't have adequate personnel on the field without its stud TE.

    Ultimately, without Gronkowski, our offense falls from elite to great, and against a great defense, its output may suffer. It's only elite part left was Brady, with Welker and Hernandez a tier below. When you have two blue chippers like Brady & Gronk, life becomes so much easier for everyone else, not just for the weapons, but the OLine. Gronk also has a huge effect on the run game.

    The defense would've been fine with Talib. Obviously, the team needs more depth at CB, it needs to either retain or adequately replace Talib, and then add another corner of starting caliber. It was only a matter of time before Talib's loss was felt, and the offense had not built enough of a lead to endure it.

    Overall, you have to be happy with the trajectory of this defense. It is trending up - and now good enough to win a title with.
  10. Rob0729

    Rob0729 Supporter Supporter

    #12 Jersey

    Yeah, I agree. Whenever I see an analysis that judges a defensive performance exclusively or near exclusively on yards allowed, I know that analysis is nothing more superficial hogwash.
  11. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact Pro Bowl Player

    defense made plenty of stops against the ravens.....

    that said, the defense still needs work although I would try to minimize the personnel changes. this was pretty much the 3rd different defense the pats have had personnel-wise in the last 3 years.

    wilfork, mayo, ninko, mccourty are the only starters remaining from 2010

    jones, hightower, dennard, talib, gregory....all new this year....

    if there's that kindof turnover again, the defense will have the same kinds of issues.....

    at some point you have to stick with someone for awhile........
  12. jbb9s

    jbb9s In the Starting Line-Up

    I think there is some interesting data in here. A few take aways:

    1) Ravens stopped 49ers on 2 pt conversion (for a tie game) and the final drive (for the win). Huge stops when they needed them. Championship stops. In the Pats SBs and the 2007 AFFCG they didn't get those stops. Couldn't do it for their lives. And I'm not talking about the helmet catch or the Manningham grab. Those were lucky, but those drives were long and resulted in TDs.

    2) Throw the stats on the windows. So the ravens won with a defense ranked X and Y .....Pats had Z...blah blah. Ravens chances of winning the SB would have increased with a better defense. Their chances of losing would have increased with a worse defense. So a team should always be incentived to get better on D.
  13. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? Supporter

    No Jersey Selected

    As far as I see it, the defense needs to: a) Get more physical at safety, b) Get more talented at CB (particularly if Talib isn't coming back), c) Get more coverage ability at LB, and d) Pick up a DE/DT/OLB (depending on what Belichick's plan for the "base" is). Do that and add in some minor modifications with the offense, then pray for good health, and this team is back in the big dance.
  14. Brady'sButtBoy

    Brady'sButtBoy 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    #12 Jersey

    It's the lack of scoring in crunch that remains my real concern for this team. A stop or two by the D would be nice - and they made plenty in the first half of the AFCG - but it became irrelevant when the O couldn't score anymore points. They had their chances but managed 0 points in the 2nd half. To win you often need to beat a good D in the playoffs.

    Better crunch time scoring, and more big plays down the field would make more of a difference to me than LBs that can cover better. And I still think it's as much about how you play D and as who's playing it for you, especially in the redzone.
  15. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae Retired Jersey Club Supporter

    Disable Jersey

    The Ravens won 4 games this postseason. Two were won by the defense choking down an opposing offense (Colts/Patriots). Two were won by putting up points (Broncos/49ers). The 14 and 17 points games you say won't get you anywhere would have been good enough to win two of the 4 games.

    You can look for confirmation of your own pre-formed opinions, or you can look at the data and [highlight]then[/highlight] form your opinions. The latter is almost always going to be the smarter approach.
  16. Mack Herron

    Mack Herron In the Starting Line-Up

    #24 Jersey

    Ravens beat Pats. Twice. Better on offense and defense.
  17. edboc

    edboc On the Game Day Roster

    Aren't the keys to an effective defense red zone defense (making the opponent kick FGs), generating turnovers, limiting explosive plays (more than 20 yards), and defensive passer rating? Ranking teams by yards gained and given up is somewhat archaic.
  18. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? Supporter

    No Jersey Selected

    I tend to think you should take into account all of them. For instance, red zone defense is great and all and you always want to hold the opponent to field goals. But if you're overly reliant on red zone defense to get stops, it usually means that the opponent is putting together drives down the field on your defense which takes the ball out of your offense's hands. Ultimately, you want a defense that does everything well and can do everything when needed. That's what Belichick has been trying to build here since the old guard left.
  19. PatsSweFan

    PatsSweFan On the Game Day Roster

    Ravens held Manning's to 21 offensive points for +5 Qtr...
    Sure they gave up 29pts against 49ers but 14 of them was on two possession in a row started inside Ravens own 25
  20. ausbacker

    ausbacker Brady > Manning. Supporter

    #87 Jersey

    The Patriots need a better D and a healthy Gronk.
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