Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by cupofjoe1962, Mar 22, 2011.
Chargers could take advantage of Patriots' desire for draft move - SignOnSanDiego.com
Duh? Why wouldn't they be doing that...
I didn't know Charlie Sheen was on the Pats fans message board.
How you doing Charlie?
Charlie Sheen tickets, dates. Official Ticketmaster site.
This forum has been dead for awhile.
Damn, pats should just go for it this year. Get Pouncey + pass rusher. Unless they are getting at least like a 2nd back. Players traders probably won't be able to be done by then I assume?
A shame those aren't the Raiders picks, then Belichik could trade the #28 to Oakland for the #18 and #50.
A San Diego newspaper is reporting this, so my guess is that the information probably came from somebody within the Chargers organization.
Speculation #1: The Pats have indeed been talking to the Chargers - and other teams - as preliminary due diligence in order to get an idea of who might be interested in trading on draft day, and what they are looking for in exchange.
Speculation #2: The Pats have indeed been talking to the Chargers, with the intent of trading the pick.
Speculation #3: The Pats have indeed been talking to the Chargers, with the intent of creating a diversion so they could figure out if they may want to trade up from their #18 spot.
Speculation #4: The Pats planted the rumors in order to see how other teams would react and to figure out who is interested in trading up, and who is interested in trading down.
It should also be noted that the Chargers are a contending conference rival whose three biggest needs are (a) a pass rushing outside linebacker, (b) a defensive end, and (c) an offensive lineman (right tackle in their case); does that sound familiar at all?
Another BS rumor that happens every year. No way do the Pats even consider trading the 28th pick until they are on the clock. Why would the Pats trade it before then? It makes no sense and rarely happens with any team.
What this report is getting is the typical chatter between organizations where they send out feelers to see who might be interested in the pick and what they might give up so on draft day the negotiations can happen quickly. That doesn't mean the Pats will trade the pick, but they have a good idea who to call if they decide that there is no one worth taking with that pick. I wouldn't bet against them talking with other teams to trade up.
The Pats have no idea who will be available at 28. So they won't trade until they are on the clock if they trade at all. For all we know, the #2 guy on their draft board could still be available with that pick (you would assume either they drafted their #1 guy on their draft board already or he was selected by someone else). Why would they trade it away. Or you could have a case like last year where the Broncos really wanted to trade up to get Tebow and the Cowboys wanted to trade up to get Dez Bryant. The Pats got more in those two trades than they would have gotten trading the pick before the draft.
Didn't BB actually say, though, that he's OK with the idea if he feels the circumstances warrant?
As a case in point: the Pats had agreed, in principle, to the trade with NO in 2008 the night before the draft.
If I recall, the Saints had that lined up with the Patriots because the Saints were looking to take Sedrick Ellis if was still available at #7. Although the trade may have been agreed to in principle, the Saints probably wouldn't have made the deal if Ellis was gone.
With all the picks... ITS OBVIOUS BB will be up and down the board. Talk is just that talk. This would merit more if it coming from an "insider" or surfacing day or two before draft. Just waiting to see how WILD these get leading upto draft.
The Pats are stacked with picks this year. If BB wasn't talking to teams now, sending out feelers he wouldn't be doing his job.
This is not the New England Bengals.
At the end of the day, The Pats Draft picks presently seem to fall into the "sweet spot" of the supposed target type players the Pats might pic. I say stand Pat unless you can use it to trade for a high quality player NFL ready and younger (i.e. Fitzgerald for a couple picks in a heart beat). The shame is the loss of FA also means that we can't make Roster Trades like a new home for Mankins, Merriweather, Kaczur or whomever BB feels can be traded for the better.
I could see this scenario: At pick #10 the Redskins are between a rock and a hard place. Very few picks. No guarantees of filling roster holes with the FA period perhaps after the Draft (If I am a NFL player, I want the new CBA now if I am a FA or tendered FA because the Draft might fill roster slots instead of the spend on them). Anyway, The Skins need a QB. At #10 Newton and Gabbard should be gone already (Carolina and Buffalo or Cincinnati for sure and maybe AZ). I think Mallett could be the Marino of the century but he is not a top #10 guy at this time. The Skins have no picks to move up. It is buyer beware on the Draft in 2012 if the Players win there will be no Draft so Shanny can't trade into 2012. It has been said they need picks desperately and would trade. They do not have a third round pick or a fourth.
At #10 goes to the Pats for #33, #60 and #92. #10 is worth 1.300 and all of the Pats picks are worth 1,012. It has been said this year because of circumstance, this trade value chart is remote. With our #33 this might even be too high for Mallett but it gets it done (perhaps Locker because Shanny loves mobile QBs and he thought McNabb was that guy, but not so much it seems). Plus now Shanny can pick and choose some more help at #60 and #92. BB won't spring for more picks. I think Shanny pulls the trigger because #33 is like a first rounder and more value to trade than even #32, plus #10 will be higher slotted salary.
O.K. next move. Now that BB has #10 and #17 and #28, he trades #28 (660 pts) to the Chargers for #50 (400 pts) and #61 (292 pts) in the 2nd (BB wins by 32pts).
So the new Pats picks would be:
(Plus 4th, 5th and 6th rounds)
So the new Pats picks will gain up +18 in the first round and -18 in the second between the picks in actuality. At #10 you have a shot at Quinn or whomever. Two solid Blue Chippers at #10 and #17!
Interesting. No question Shanny does the three picks for one without a third or fourth in 2011, and BB can be the beneficiary.
#10 Quinn OLB
#17 Watt DE
#50 Cannon OT/OG
#61 Dowling as a FS
#74 Romeus DE/OLB
4th Murray RB
5th Moffitt C/OG
6th Andre Holmes WR
Comp:? Keo? McElroy? Shorts?
i'd laugh if we traded the jets 2nd round pick to the pats
they'd LOVE that
Proving my point.
First of all, the trade wasn't executed until the Patriots were on the clock. Why? Because they were open to other offers and they might have been willing to keep the pick if someone who were drafted in the first six picks actually dropped to them.
Second, that a top 10 pick. There is always more predraft discussion for trades the higher the pick is in the first round. You can far more safely predict if a player you are targetting will be available at #7 than #28. Typically, people know who will be drafted in the top 3-4 picks and many times know who are being picked in the top 10. The Saints probably knew based on who was being drafted, that Ellis would be available at #7 and likely be selected in the next few picks. So they were more likely more agressive in trading with the Pats before the draft.
Third, do you really think that the Pats weren't calling other teams potentially looking to draft Ellis telling them they were going to trade their pick away to a team that was going to leapfrog them to get Ellis all the way up to when they submitted the trade to the league?
A lot of draft trades are negotiated prior to the draft. Many more draft trades that are agreed to in principle before the draft are never executed. When teams go on the clock, they have 5 minutes to either pick or trade it away. A lot of the ground work of who you might trade to and what you might get must be done before hand. It doesn't mean a trade will ever happen. The Pats have these discussions every year with teams. Sometimes they do actually trade. Other times, they don't.
This is a young team that's two or three impact players away from being a force to be reckoned with for the next 3, 4 years. Why would Bill trade a first round pick to acquire more depth? This is the first time that I'd be pissed off if they traded down. There's no excuse for it.
I don't know if I would. It all depends on the situation. People blasted the Pats for trading down twice in the first round this past draft and the end result was DROY runner up Devin McCourty. He was an immediate impact player who the Pats traded down for. Same can be said for Jerod Mayo in 2008.
Staying in a draft spot and reaching for a player that you can trade down and get a few spots back isn't good drafting. If the Pats don't love anyone at #28, I have no problem with them trading the pick. Gronkowski, Hernandez, and Spikes were all impact players and more than just depth and all were drafted outside the first round last year.
Sometimes it backfires on the Pats, but I trust the Belichick/Caserio braintrust who have more hits than misses in the two drafts drafting together. I think too many teams reach for players in the first round because they are afraid to trade away the pick and miss out on the next Clay Matthews (someone who isn't thought as highly of as his draft pick in a lot of circles and turns into a stud). Most of the time, the team misses with such picks.
I agree with the other poster. There are 27 different circumstances to consider. No way this is more than a feeling out process.
Let's face it, if we have pick 28, then the Pats are probably going into the first day of the draft with 28 different options on their radar screen, anywhere from taking the pick themselves to trading up or down with every single team ahead of them or behind them. There are teams that will want to trade into that spot, but only if X player is available at that point. Other than believing there will be some movement by the Pats on draft day, it's pretty useless to try to predict how things are going to go until the Pats are actually on the clock.
I think that BB does it on purpose just to get all of us to watch the paint-drying exercise that is the draft (yes, I am being sarcastic).
One has to wonder what those circumstances would be.
And then one has to wonder if those circumstances could include things like not knowing if there will be a draft next year, not being able to trade for players, or maybe just having 3 of top 33 gives him ammo to whatever he wants and he might do it whenever he wants too.
If I rember correct he was speaking in generalities that he knows guys who would never trade the comodity before the draft as its value would be preceived at its highest on draft day. Basically he knows guys who feel you are willing to trade a week before the draft for x you might make the same deal on draft day for X plus Y. Where as BB was just saying that he could envision circumstances where he would be willing to do it. I perceived that to mean that he would do a deal like that if he felt he was truly getting a great deal why risk waiting.
I would certainly put this rumor in predraft feeling out.
But as an aside one has to wonder given the quote you provide what those circumstances could actually be enough for him to pull the trigger pre draft??
He'd have to think he (with reasonable likelihood) couldn't get as good a deal while he was on the clock.
I hope for once we don't look for value and stockpiling picks for next year. We should take take good players like McCourty even if we have to trade up. Our pass rush and running threat are bad. Yes. The law firm ran for 1000 yards. But come playoffs, no one is afraid of him. The other coach just focussed on Brady. They are not afraid that our RBs can hurt them where as we were afraid of JETS running game. We not even once touched sanchez. We need pass rush and running threat. We can address some in the draft and some in the FA. If we keep on stockpiling, we will be always close but never a dominating force.
How dissapointing will it be having 3 o the first 33 picks an then only using one of them. Very realistic. As a fan its no fun having 2 first round picks and never using both of them.
I'd rather win games that win the experts opinions on the draft.
Trading down has historically proven to be a good move.
you know we traded down to get mccourty right
Damnit I want Pouncey right there. Hope that's not true
I think trading #28 will be contingent on the interested teams seeing the player they want available there and the Pats not seeing a tremendous value drop to them at #28. But you have to kinda arrange these things ahead of time. Because you don't have that much time to think and negotiate on draft day. The Pats have a lot of options this coming draft. That's usually a good thing.
agreed. they're just laying the groundwork for draft day because they're gonna be busy with all the picks. no need to start whining yet.
Andy, Not so much. Take away the last two years and the Draft here has been mediocre at best including all of BB's maddening trades. Take away last year and when you view starters produced. 5 starters in five years plus Ghost before last year. 5 starters in five years with numerous trades up and down. I say "C-" tops. Opinion or no, it is what it is.
Yes, lets take away the last two drafts which have been home runs. And lets also take away the 5 solid drafts prior to 2006. If we only look at one specific area with blinders and ignore the rest of history, then of course it's easy to draw ridiculous conclusions.
The team had an awful period of drafting between 2006 and 2008. But you can't keep pointing to that over and over and over and over while ignoring the other 7 or 8 drafts. It's just silly.
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