The FA, "sign the beast" thread

[TomNGisele]

And I would like a Fast! hard hitting *****hole istead of the overrated McCourty. I hope we don't make the mistake of extending McCourty who to me is Steve Gregory Pt.II Safeties who make NO PLAYS yeah I said it.

I tend to agree about McCourty honestly lol but enough people who's opinions I respect tell me I'm wrong so I do not voice my opinion on that matter

 

[JackBauer]

And I would like a Fast! hard hitting *****hole istead of the overrated McCourty. I hope we don't make the mistake of extending McCourty who to me is Steve Gregory Pt.II Safeties who make NO PLAYS yeah I said it.

Good lord, just when I thought your posts couldn't get any worse.

 

[Sciz]

Sometimes you have to hit "View Post" to be reminded why you had somebody on ignore in the first place.

People don't dislike Gregory because he didn't make plays. They disliked him because he made a lot of mistakes. McCourty is among the best safeties in the NFL at avoiding mistakes. There's no comparison at all to be made there.

 

[Kontradiction]

The Patriots defense allowed just 5 TD's on throws 20 yards or more all season. How people think that McCourty didn't have something to do with that is beyond me.

 

[Deus Irae]

And I would like a Fast! hard hitting *****hole istead of the overrated McCourty. I hope we don't make the mistake of extending McCourty who to me is Steve Gregory Pt.II Safeties who make NO PLAYS yeah I said it.

This sort of post is why I can't take you seriously.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

I tend to agree about McCourty honestly lol but enough people who's opinions I respect tell me I'm wrong so I do not voice my opinion on that matter

never would have guessed you think mccourty sucks

 

[50-yard-line]

Sometimes you have to hit "View Post" to be reminded why you had somebody on ignore in the first place.

People don't dislike Gregory because he didn't make plays. They disliked him because he made a lot of mistakes. McCourty is among the best safeties in the NFL at avoiding mistakes. There's no comparison at all to be made there.

Often seems like some folks just watch the highlight films of players on other teams and think those few plays are indicative of the full body of work, eh?

 

[TomNGisele]

never would have guessed you think mccourty sucks

Meh, I pretty clearly said that I know that feeling is wrong. I do think he's a tad overrated tho

 

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Meh, I pretty clearly said that I know that feeling is wrong. I do think he's a tad overrated tho

Safety is a difficult position to play in the NFL. McCourty is pretty properly rated. He is not a Hall of Famer, but he's a very good player. To paraphrase Kontra, he covers up a lot of mistakes and prevents a lot of big plays.

 

[Marqui]

The more I think about it, I'm all in on Jared Allen. Perfect fit in this defense.

 

[doesntmatter1]

The more I think of it the more I see Malcom Jenkins being the under the radar free agent pick up by the Pats.

He is versatile and young as well as respected leader.

I have always liked him, but I have a strong feeling we wouldn't outbid the saints, let alone any of the other desperate teams out there.

 

[patfanken]

Back to the OP:

Disclaimer - Miguel gave us a very credible scenario where the Pats could create $30MM in cap space for this coming season. If you want to get even more conservative I am going to assume that in the end we will wind up with $25MM. If you take $4MM of that for reserve, and $4MM to sign the draft picks, that leaves $15MM to spend on FA's

1. Our own:

a. Sign Talib - I think a Grimes type of contract should do it, only with with only a third guaranteed, rather than half. Any deal that's done will probably have with a $4-5MM cap number for the first 2 years.

b. Sign Svitek - Getting Svitek back as a swing tackle allows Cannon to move to RG. THAT allows the Pats to either cut Connolly, or release him and bring him back only pay him for being a valued back up at C/G $1.5MM

c. Sign Fletcher - ace special teamer, decent back up LB at around $1MM

d. Sign Wendell - Now that Mack is off the market, I think you have to sign him or be VERY sure that there is a C out there in the 3rd or 4th rounds who can come in here and start. $2MM

e. Sign Blount if $2MM or under. I'd love to keep the band together, but not for more than that. Blount is a luxury not a need. A RB corps of Ridley, Boldin, and Vareen is better than 70% of the league. Blount makes it better, but not if overpriced.

f. Sign Hooman. - He'd be the best 4th TE in the league. A decent blocker and a better receiver than you think $1MM

g. Let Edelman walk - You don't know how much it hurts me to say that, but its about the head not the heart. You can't have DA and Edelman on the same team, assuming Thomkins, Dobson, and Boyce are all healthy.

2. Theirs

a. Sign Scott Chandler - We need to redo our TE situation looking to have 4 on the final roster with varying skills. Chandler is a proven receiver who offers a big target, can line up in several positions, is a decent blocker, and will come at a reasonable price. A TE corps of Gronk, Chandler, Hooman, and a top 3 draft pick would be a big upgrade over what he had last season. $2.5MM

b. Sign a FA DE - There are a number of choices out there. But the fact is we CANNOT have Ninko and Jones playing 98% of the DE snaps next season. We need at least 2 legit rushing DE threats to share snaps with those 2. One of them has to be a FA, and I'd be willing to invest up to $5MM in cap space to find him

c. Sign a FA DT - again lots of names like Melton and Joseph. My hope is that there is a starting quality DT in the first round. My binky is RHageman, but Tuitt or Nix would be OK as well. As to how much I want to spend on a DT depends on the health and outlook of Armstead and Kelly. If only one of them is likely to get back to full form than I'd go as go as high as $4MM for a DT who can push the pocket.

d. Sign Browner - He's exactly what we need. From what I've been told he's an above average press corner who is going to struggle with small quick receivers. Even so, at 6'4 he's the kind of match up guy who can take the opponents receiving TE or biggest WR out of the game. Since the Pats will want to do more in the week to week defenses, Browner would be great guy to play with in creating favorable match ups.

Also a rotation of Browner, Dennard, and Talib would mean we wouldn't have to see Arrington out wide again. Now add the fact Browner could also be used in situations as the big SS everyone is craving makes him even more valuable. Plus with all his baggage his cost for next year is going to be lower than his athletic value. NE is a good place for players to go when the need to get their reputations back in good graces. Think about it. A CB corps of Browner, Talib, Dennard, and Ryan would be the best in Pats history. Its something I'd pay up to $3MM in cap space to see.

Now if we sign all of them at my prices we'd be at $20MM, so we'd have to lose $5MM either by pushing cap costs into the future, or just not signing so many.

Draft - In my ideal world we'd do the following

1st. DT - RHageman - best push the pocket upside of any DT in the draft. This is what every team is looking for so I really think he'll be gone by 29, to the point where I hope he slugs a cop before the draft.

2nd . TE Troy Nickalus - One of the consensus top 4 TE's and best chance to still be there at 62. Acknowledged as the best blocker of the top 4. decent speed, athletic, and ran a lot of seam patterns at ND. Great depth behind Gronk as an inline TE

3rd - C Weston Richburg - Someone who potentially by the middle of the season will become the starting C

4th - Jordon Tripp - Speed OLB - We need a developmental coverage LB for depth. He'll excel at ST's and be ready to replace Mayo in a couple of years. A big favorite of Mayoclinic

5th Phillip Gaines - 4.3 speed, 4.6 3cone, 6' tall, great speed quickness, and length. Issues are with strength (only 195) and ball skills. He breaks up a lot of pass plays, but few picks. But in the 5th I think he's worth the risk

Disclaimer: Mayoclinic would probably draft Antone Exum here as a CB/S hybrid, but I'm too enamored with Gaine's speed and quickness

After that and UDFA's I don't care just as long as they are high risk/reward picks,

 

[Joker]

3rd - C Weston Richburg - Someone who by the middle of the season will become the starting C

OK...but you want to also give Wendell 2 million/year..for what?..to backup after 7 games in?

I suggest, if you find the time, that you go back and look at that Denver playoff loss and get yourself a stopwatch to time the collapse of the pocket stopping Brady from stepping up. Add to that the absolute beating the interior O line took on running plays...Ridley 17 yards on 5 carries..Blount 6 yards on 5 carries..Brady had a higher YPC than Blount for krissakes. Our Pats got BLASTED across the interior O line. Unacceptable. I pored over the replay of this game for a week and play after play it was clear we had punching bags across the middle of our O line.

Now that I'm immersed in the draft and the prospects, I do not expect Richburg to last to the 3rd round.In fact I think he, Swanson and of course Martin, will be gone before the start of the third round. I do NOT want to see Tyler Larsen anywhere NEAR our team basically because I have a bias against Utah centers...period. If they draft this guy in the 4th or 5th, Brady will play his remaining years taking snaps from Trevor Matich redux...forget it.

I remain adamant...THIS draft the Pats need to pick difference makers on the interior of both lines with their higher picks.

 

[ausbacker]

Wasn't it funny when the troll brigade continued to harp on that Mayo was an average Linebacker and could be easily replaced given his lack of playmaking ability. Shoot forward a few years and everyone sees that Mayo is a top 5 MLB/ILB in the NFL and is capable of making plays when allowed to roam.

It's rinse and repeat with McCourty at Safety. Once the Patriots put an above average Safety next to him, watch him flourish.

 

[TomNGisele]

Yes only trolls question players.

Zzzzz

I like Mayo tho excited to see him and Collins together

 

[Brady6]

Wasn't it funny when the troll brigade continued to harp on that Mayo was an average Linebacker and could be easily replaced given his lack of playmaking ability. Shoot forward a few years and everyone sees that Mayo is a top 5 MLB/ILB in the NFL and is capable of making plays when allowed to roam.

It's rinse and repeat with McCourty at Safety. Once the Patriots put an above average Safety next to him, watch him flourish.

I think Mayo is the third best LB in the NFL behind Willis and Luke Kuechly personally. He had averages about 9 tackles a game, is very underrated as a playmaker, he forces fumbles, makes plays in coverage and can pressure the QB when given the chance to blitz. I never understand why people speak poorly of his play, in 2012, he had 147 tackles, 3 sacks, 4 forced fumbles, 1 fumble recovery, 1 interception, 3 pass defends, and 3 run stuffs, find me another 4-3 OLB who puts up that type of production.

 

[mgteich]

I count your total wish list at $25M (not counting any savings for cutting anyone). Let us presume that you don't get your DT. The total is then a very manageable $21M. Adding a WR or SS would mean taking the money from another position.

DEFENSIVE TAÇKLE
We have Wilfork, Kelly, Armstead, Siliga, Jones plus a draft pick (plus Vellano and Grissom). I don't see spending an additional $4M unless Wilfork or Kelly goes in which case the money would be there for the replacement.

WIDE RECEIVER
You seem fine with counting on all of Amendola, Dobson, Thompkins and Boyce. I think that it is likely that we would sign a free agent or two (a midlevel plus Collie).

SAFETY
Counting on Harmon AND Wilson AND Wilson somehow seems insufficient.

THE REST
I'm fine with the wish list for those on other teams with regard to position. I suspect the names could be different.

Back to the OP:

Disclaimer - Miguel gave us a very credible scenario where the Pats could create $30MM in cap space for this coming season. If you want to get even more conservative I am going to assume that in the end we will wind up with $25MM. If you take $4MM of that for reserve, and $4MM to sign the draft picks, that leaves $15MM to spend on FA's

1. Our own:

a. Sign Talib - I think a Grimes type of contract should do it, only with with only a third guaranteed, rather than half. Any deal that's done will probably have with a $4-5MM cap number for the first 2 years.

b. Sign Svitek - Getting Svitek back as a swing tackle allows Cannon to move to RG. THAT allows the Pats to either cut Connolly, or release him and bring him back only pay him for being a valued back up at C/G $1.5MM

c. Sign Fletcher - ace special teamer, decent back up LB at around $1MM

d. Sign Wendell - Now that Mack is off the market, I think you have to sign him or be VERY sure that there is a C out there in the 3rd or 4th rounds who can come in here and start. $2MM

e. Sign Blount if $2MM or under. I'd love to keep the band together, but not for more than that. Blount is a luxury not a need. A RB corps of Ridley, Boldin, and Vareen is better than 70% of the league. Blount makes it better, but not if overpriced.

f. Sign Hooman. - He'd be the best 4th TE in the league. A decent blocker and a better receiver than you think $1MM

g. Let Edelman walk - You don't know how much it hurts me to say that, but its about the head not the heart. You can't have DA and Edelman on the same team, assuming Thomkins, Dobson, and Boyce are all healthy.

2. Theirs

a. Sign Scott Chandler - We need to redo our TE situation looking to have 4 on the final roster with varying skills. Chandler is a proven receiver who offers a big target, can line up in several positions, is a decent blocker, and will come at a reasonable price. A TE corps of Gronk, Chandler, Hooman, and a top 3 draft pick would be a big upgrade over what he had last season. $2.5MM

b. Sign a FA DE - There are a number of choices out there. But the fact is we CANNOT have Ninko and Jones playing 98% of the DE snaps next season. We need at least 2 legit rushing DE threats to share snaps with those 2. One of them has to be a FA, and I'd be willing to invest up to $5MM in cap space to find him

c. Sign a FA DT - again lots of names like Melton and Joseph. My hope is that there is a starting quality DT in the first round. My binky is RHageman, but Tuitt or Nix would be OK as well. As to how much I want to spend on a DT depends on the health and outlook of Armstead and Kelly. If only one of them is likely to get back to full form than I'd go as go as high as $4MM for a DT who can push the pocket.

d. Sign Browner - He's exactly what we need. From what I've been told he's an above average press corner who is going to struggle with small quick receivers. Even so, at 6'4 he's the kind of match up guy who can take the opponents receiving TE or biggest WR out of the game. Since the Pats will want to do more in the week to week defenses, Browner would be great guy to play with in creating favorable match ups.

Also a rotation of Browner, Dennard, and Talib would mean we wouldn't have to see Arrington out wide again. Now add the fact Browner could also be used in situations as the big SS everyone is craving makes him even more valuable. Plus with all his baggage his cost for next year is going to be lower than his athletic value. NE is a good place for players to go when the need to get their reputations back in good graces. Think about it. A CB corps of Browner, Talib, Dennard, and Ryan would be the best in Pats history. Its something I'd pay up to $3MM in cap space to see.

Now if we sign all of them at my prices we'd be at $20MM, so we'd have to lose $5MM either by pushing cap costs into the future, or just not signing so many.

Draft - In my ideal world we'd do the following

1st. DT - RHageman - best push the pocket upside of any DT in the draft. This is what every team is looking for so I really think he'll be gone by 29, to the point where I hope he slugs a cop before the draft.

2nd . TE Troy Nickalus - One of the consensus top 4 TE's and best chance to still be there at 62. Acknowledged as the best blocker of the top 4. decent speed, athletic, and ran a lot of seam patterns at ND. Great depth behind Gronk as an inline TE

3rd - C Weston Richburg - Someone who potentially by the middle of the season will become the starting C

4th - Jordon Tripp - Speed OLB - We need a developmental coverage LB for depth. He'll excel at ST's and be ready to replace Mayo in a couple of years. A big favorite of Mayoclinic

5th Phillip Gaines - 4.3 speed, 4.6 3cone, 6' tall, great speed quickness, and length. Issues are with strength (only 195) and ball skills. He breaks up a lot of pass plays, but few picks. But in the 5th I think he's worth the risk

Disclaimer: Mayoclinic would probably draft Antone Exum here as a CB/S hybrid, but I'm too enamored with Gaine's speed and quickness

After that and UDFA's I don't care just as long as they are high risk/reward picks,

 

[Brady6]

The Patriots defense allowed just 5 TD's on throws 20 yards or more all season. How people think that McCourty didn't have something to do with that is beyond me.

Especially when you consider one came in the Bills game which McCourty missed. That game we allowed pass plays of 41, 37, 27, 27, and 22. McCourty is a top 5 safety in the NFL, and will probably be the top safety by the end of 2014 in my opinion.

 

[Brady6]

And I would like a Fast! hard hitting *****hole istead of the overrated McCourty. I hope we don't make the mistake of extending McCourty who to me is Steve Gregory Pt.II Safeties who make NO PLAYS yeah I said it.

I think you need to take a look at the tape from 2013. McCourty needs to do one thing and that's make the interception (he dropped a handful of potential ones) and he will be the best safety in the NFL. He is outstanding, and his presence at safety is the difference maker much more than Talib at CB despite what many like to believe. That is not a knock on Talib either.

 

[captain stone]

Back to the OP:

Disclaimer - Miguel gave us a very credible scenario where the Pats could create $30MM in cap space for this coming season. If you want to get even more conservative I am going to assume that in the end we will wind up with $25MM. If you take $4MM of that for reserve, and $4MM to sign the draft picks, that leaves $15MM to spend on FA's

1. Our own:

a. Sign Talib - I think a Grimes type of contract should do it, only with with only a third guaranteed, rather than half. Any deal that's done will probably have with a $4-5MM cap number for the first 2 years.

b. Sign Svitek - Getting Svitek back as a swing tackle allows Cannon to move to RG. THAT allows the Pats to either cut Connolly, or release him and bring him back only pay him for being a valued back up at C/G $1.5MM

c. Sign Fletcher - ace special teamer, decent back up LB at around $1MM

d. Sign Wendell -

I stopped reading after that last one.