The 2 Negatives of being red-shirted

[Miguel]

1.) By my count 14 rookies (Hines, Moe, Tuinei, Fisher, Ford, Mattes, Haggerty, Patterson, Chris McDonald, Grissom, Zusevics, Kamar Aiken, Anthony Rashad White, Schwab) were placed on IR before the start of the 2013 regular season. Only Mattes is on the Patriots roster now.

2.) Games on IR do not count in the credited season calculations. The number of credited season a player has determines their minimum salary for that season. By going on IR his rookie season a player is in effect lowering their salary for their first 4 seasons of the NFL career. Most rookies will have split contract which lowers the salary from 420K to 303K. The total difference over the 4 years is 342,000.

I share this information because every offseason we hear the suggestion that the Patriots should/will a red-shirt a player, especially a low round draft pick or UDFA.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Those stats are brutal for the red shirts' careers.
The only thing worse is what happened to the guys with the red shirts on old Star Trek episodes.

 

[Sicilian]

Unless I'm misinterpreting, you're saying the negatives are for the player, not so much for the team though, correct?

 

[Ring 6]

1.) By my count 14 rookies (Hines, Moe, Tuinei, Fisher, Ford, Mattes, Haggerty, Patterson, Chris McDonald, Grissom, Zusevics, Kamar Aiken, Anthony Rashad White, Schwab) were placed on IR before the start of the 2013 regular season. Only Mattes is on the Patriots roster now.

2.) Games on IR do not count in the credited season calculations. The number of credited season a player has determines their minimum salary for that season. By going on IR his rookie season a player is in effect lowering their salary for their first 4 seasons of the NFL career. Most rookies will have split contract which lowers the salary from 420K to 303K. The total difference over the 4 years is 342,000.

I share this information because every offseason we hear the suggestion that the Patriots should/will a red-shirt a player, especially a low round draft pick or UDFA.

On the other hand, at least they get paid.

It seems like getting that 1 year of pay is better for just about all of them because they never really lose the other end of it, as they don't actually end up having a career.

 

[mgteich]

Unless I'm misinterpreting, you're saying the negatives are for the player, not so much for the team though, correct?

For the team, the "negative" is the cost, part of the cost of doing business. I would think that the cost of 14 players on IR is significant enough to think about. Obviously, the team would have been better off if the players had been waived.

 

[patchick]

Miguel, maybe it would help if you didn't call it "red-shirting"? Those players were simply placed on injured reserve as required by the CBA, not "red-shirted" or "stashed."

(I presume that's part of your point, but I'm afraid that your post will be read as "this is why the Patriots should stop their well-established practice of red-shirting," rather than "this is more evidence that it would be totally counterproductive to force healthy rookies off the practice field...so they don't.")

 

[jmt57]

Is it possible that some of these players din't reach an injury settlement with the team, and therefore ended up going on IR. I don't recall the CBA rules for injury settlements and how/if they differ for rookies as opposed to veterans. I know rookies go on waivers and revert to IR if unclaimed if they were designated as waived/injured. Are they more likely to remain on IR rather than leave with an injury settlement the way Jermaine Cunningham and Justin Francis did?

 

[Miguel]

Unless I'm misinterpreting, you're saying the negatives are for the player, not so much for the team though, correct?

Yes, I am talking about the players.

 

[Miguel]

Miguel, maybe it would help if you didn't call it "red-shirting"? Those players were simply placed on injured reserve as required by the CBA, not "red-shirted" or "stashed."

I am using the same terminology of those who suggest placing the players on IR.

 

[Miguel]

Is it possible that some of these players din't reach an injury settlement with the team, and therefore ended up going on IR. I don't recall the CBA rules for injury settlements and how/if they differ for rookies as opposed to veterans. I know rookies go on waivers and revert to IR if unclaimed if they were designated as waived/injured. Are they more likely to remain on IR rather than leave with an injury settlement the way Jermaine Cunningham and Justin Francis did?

Some of the 14 did reach injury settlements with the Patriots. They are still not on the team now which is my main point.

 

[Miguel]

Rather than continuing the hijacking of the Depth at Linebacker is pretty good thread with the discussion of red-shirting decided to bump up this thread.

 

[Miguel]

http://atp.patsfans.com/2012/11/03/2012-new-england-patriots-transaction-tracker/

lists all of the 2012 Patriots roster transactions. I do not see a 2012 rookie who was placed on IR then on the Patriots roster now.

 

[BTTA]

http://atp.patsfans.com/2012/11/03/2012-new-england-patriots-transaction-tracker/

lists all of the 2012 Patriots roster transactions. I do not see a 2012 rookie who was placed on IR then on the Patriots roster now.

Do you, or does anyone here, have insight as to whether this is the norm in the league?

 

[Miguel]

Do you, or does anyone here, have insight as to whether this is the norm in the league?

I do not but I wish that those who suggest that the Patriots stash a rookie on IR would name such a player who then had a successful career.

 

[Brady6]

1.) By my count 14 rookies (Hines, Moe, Tuinei, Fisher, Ford, Mattes, Haggerty, Patterson, Chris McDonald, Grissom, Zusevics, Kamar Aiken, Anthony Rashad White, Schwab) were placed on IR before the start of the 2013 regular season. Only Mattes is on the Patriots roster now.

None of those players were draft picks, they were all practice squad level players. Several of them reached injury settlements and did not spend the year with the Patriots.

 

[Miguel]

None of those players were draft picks, they were all practice squad level players. Several of them reached injury settlements and did not spend the year with the Patriots.

Please review my original post. I said "I share this information because every offseason we hear the suggestion that the Patriots should/will a red-shirt a player, especially a low round draft pick or UDFA." Later in the thread I pointed out "Some of the 14 did reach injury settlements with the Patriots."

Do we hear on this board very offseason the suggestion that the Patriots should/will a red-shirt a player, especially a low round draft pick or UDFA? Yes, we do.

I do not recall of a rookie in the BB era who was IR'd before the start of the regular season who then went on and play several seasons in the NFL. Do you?

 

[mgteich]

None of those players were draft picks, they were all practice squad level players. Several of them reached injury settlements and did not spend the year with the Patriots.

Yes, draft picks sometimes are on the team for another year or two (Dowling and Crable).

The question before the house is whether any patriot rookie missed his rookie year on IR and then had a successful career.

 

[Brady6]

I do not recall of a rookie in the BB era who was IR'd before the start of the regular season who then went on and play several seasons in the NFL. Do you?

I do not think we have had to many players that fit that criteria or at least not players that were viewed as likely to make the 53 man roster either way.

I am not disputing the facts of your post, it is accurate, I am just making the point that even if those players were healthy they'd have been unlikely to make the roster.

 

[AzPatsFan]

I do not but I wish that those who suggest that the Patriots stash a rookie on IR would name such a player who then had a successful career.

How about Marcus Cannon, Hmmn?

 

[Miguel]

How about Marcus Cannon, Hmmn?

Marcus Cannon was placed on NFI in the 2011 preseason and played in the 2011 regular season.