Welcome to PatsFans.com

Surpises Before The Draft

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by mgteich, Mar 7, 2009.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    19,975
    Likes Received:
    24
    Ratings:
    +28 / 1 / -0

    My Jersey:

    The only surprises I expect before the draft are possible trades. Trades are no a surprise during Draft Weekend.
  2. KY Pats Fan

    KY Pats Fan Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    184
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Seymour for a 1st round pick.
  3. robertweathers

    robertweathers Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2006
    Messages:
    7,628
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    I agree that trades are not a suprise but it's the type of trade that can be suprising. For example, I don't think anyone expected the Moss trade 2 years ago. Suspected maybe. Expected no.

    I don't expect it but if Peppers and Suggs are to be acquired, I'm pretty sure it would be on draft day as the Pats and their trading partner to wait until the 11th hour.
  4. Jimke

    Jimke Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2006
    Messages:
    3,677
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    You're probably going to be ridiculed by most of the forum on

    this one but the idea is not as nutty as it may appear. There

    is no way Seymour will re-sign with the Patriots unless he is given

    15 million per year with the same guaranteed money as Haynesworth.

    If he is franchised, he will simply hold out. One factor would be whether

    the pick is early first round.
  5. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    19,975
    Likes Received:
    24
    Ratings:
    +28 / 1 / -0

    My Jersey:

    I don't that think that this is a nutty idea at all. We could then sign Jason Taylor, and use our new first on a DE and still draft a linebacker at 23, and an additional top 100 pick DT. I think that I would like to have a tentative extensioin of Jarvis Green in place (I think that this could be cap neutral).

    DL: Warren, Wilfork, Green, 1st rounder or Seymour, Smith, Hood (3rd rounder)
    LB: Taylor, Thomas, Mayo, 1st rounder, Guyton, Bruschi, Woods, TBC, Crable

    The advantage of the frst rounder instead of Seymour is that the new player would have a 5 year contract and a cap hit in the $2.5M range as Mayo does.

  6. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    May 1, 2008
    Messages:
    12,376
    Likes Received:
    6
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    I've always liked that idea, if someone would give us a 1st rounder. There's no doubt Seymour is one of the best 3-4 DE's around, but between age, injuries and contract demands I think the Pats would be open to the right deal. I've always felt that Wilfork and Mankins would resign for reasonable deals but that Seymour was more of a Samuel-like "money first" kind of guy, and might end up being the hardest to resign, with a likely gap between what he thought he was worth and what the FO valued him at.

    My question is, if GB or Denver were to offer their #2 for him, would you still bite? How much would it take? We could probably get Jarron Gilbert with that pick and groom him to be Seymour's replacement. What about a 2010 #1?
  7. TealSox

    TealSox Guest

    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Nah, I don't bite on it.

    Having Seymour in a contract year and getting a compensation pick for him after he signs elsewhere is better than getting a second round pick. Hopefully he would play, like most do in their last years of their contract, all out and be the beast we know he can be. After that, he can get his money from the Broncos, Browns, Dolphins, Jets, etc and the Pats can plug the hole with either a 2009 rookie like Jarron Gilbert or draft a guy in 2010 (like the guy from Nebraska).

    Hate to see him go to a rival, but if he is asking for Haynesworth money, than his contract will be the poison pill that restricts that team from making other moves in the future.
  8. Sleeping King

    Sleeping King Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2009
    Messages:
    106
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    No one is trading a 1st Round pick for Seymour. A lot of people on this board are bat s... crazy. Any team that traded for him would have the same problem the Pats will have next offseason in regards to trying to meet his insane contract demands.
  9. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    19,975
    Likes Received:
    24
    Ratings:
    +28 / 1 / -0

    My Jersey:

    A 2010 is the same to me as a 2009 2nd. The 2011 comp pick is the same as a 2009 5th. So, yes, I would consider a 2009 2nd, if I liked some of the DE's.

  10. javajunky

    javajunky Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2005
    Messages:
    69
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Why trade him this year when we can fanchise and trade him next year? It seems waiting year is like having your cake and getting to eat it too.
  11. fair catch fryar

    fair catch fryar Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2007
    Messages:
    3,106
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Because they may need to franchise someone like Wilfork.
  12. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    19,975
    Likes Received:
    24
    Ratings:
    +28 / 1 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Or Mankins or Gost if we have a new CBA.

  13. JackBauer

    JackBauer Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2005
    Messages:
    15,157
    Likes Received:
    14
    Ratings:
    +17 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Who in this draft could step right in as a 3-4 DE and play effectively? Seems awfully risky to me.
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2009
  14. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    19,975
    Likes Received:
    24
    Ratings:
    +28 / 1 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Jarvis Green with LeKevin Smith as the backup

  15. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2008
    Messages:
    13,277
    Likes Received:
    21
    Ratings:
    +33 / 1 / -0

    My Jersey:

    #24 Jersey
    Seems risky to me too. Of course I'm still holding onto that small, remote chance that we can somehow come to terms with him. He is very important in our scheme, and always demands 2 guys. I know the argument is more about what we can do with him, rather than his worth to the defense. I however, believe that we should wait and see what may happen, specifically with the CBA. Big Sey's are not a dime a dozen in this league, and I think it would be a gamble to try and replace him.
  16. matt1073

    matt1073 Guest

    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Dude I could see that happening too
  17. kurtinelson

    kurtinelson Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2004
    Messages:
    2,365
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    It makes you wonder why the Pats have not yet restructured Jarvis' $5million cap hit for 2009.
  18. billdog3484

    billdog3484 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2008
    Messages:
    2,160
    Likes Received:
    5
    Ratings:
    +5 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    i doubt this is likely. look at miguels cap page. if we trade him we gain 3.4M in cap room. what could we do with that 3.4M that is better than seymour? i doubt anything, so i doubt anything will happen. this isnt madden 2009 for playstation. this is real football. seymour will be on our team in 09
  19. Hercules Rockefeller

    Hercules Rockefeller Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2009
    Messages:
    563
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    The reason why I would not make that trade is because, while it is nice to have future first round picks to re-stock the roster, Seymour is still a dominating player, and the goal is to win the Super Bowl this year. There is no trade for a future 1st rounder that gives them as good a chance to win as Seymour does. He's still a very effective player who other teams have to account for. So while I am usually all for banking future 1sts, Richard Seymour needs to only be concentrating on getting that fourth ring this year.
  20. DisgruntledTunaFan

    DisgruntledTunaFan Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2006
    Messages:
    2,534
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    This is non-Pats related, but I think Ocho Cinco will get traded to a playoff contender either right before or on draft day.

    I think the team that pulls it off could very well do it by giving up less than a 2nd rouder.
  21. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2006
    Messages:
    7,608
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Exactly.

    True, the Pats have won a lot of games without Seymour in prior years. Still, I don't see the DL depth to plan a season without him.
  22. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    40,315
    Likes Received:
    19
    Ratings:
    +19 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    The whole trade Seymour thing does not sound viable, there are many on this board who underrate him and how important he is to this defense.. when healthy he is one of the top 5 in his position. Some are enamored by statistics, but for this D the stats of the D Line are minimized by team play.. if you get rid of #93, the production of Wilfork goes down as does Ty Warren..

    He often shoulders the blame for lack of pass rush, in reality we often do not know his assignment but we do know he often demands the attention of 2 blockers.. if we you substitute Le Kevin or another DE, then there will be two blockers on Vince..

    Do not see us trading him, and do not see us ever trading for a top 5 pick.. except for the second coming of Lawrence Taylor.. but then again thought Vrabel would retire as a Patriot..
  23. DNR

    DNR Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2008
    Messages:
    110
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    I expect they'll have Wilforks deal done way before this, and most likely Mankins too.

    I agree. Let Seymour go balls to the wall in a "contract" year, then Franchise him if they can't come to terms on a new deal. Whats the worst that could happen...we settle for the Chiefs 2nd round pick again? :D
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2009
  24. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    19,975
    Likes Received:
    24
    Ratings:
    +28 / 1 / -0

    My Jersey:

    We don't have the cap money to extend Wilfork and Mankins. One MAY be doable, but either one would cost cap money.

    Extensions that might add cap money are Faulk, Light and Green.

  25. crowell33

    crowell33 Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2007
    Messages:
    2,535
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    I mentioned on another thread that I don't believe Mankins deal ever gets done. Dockery, Dielman, Leonard Davis and Steinbach all got deals for $7 million per. Faneca got $8 million per with $23 million in guarantees. I just can't see BB going $7million to $8 million per year for a guard.
  26. KY Pats Fan

    KY Pats Fan Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    184
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Another thing to look at is the 53 man roster. How many draft picks will survive? Better to trade around or stock picks in next years draft, than to draft just because you can and have to cut them before the season. Remember Garrett Mills? If BB can trade Sey and/or Hobbs for another player and/or picks next year, he will pull the trigger. May not be a 1st rounder but maybe a 2 and 4?
  27. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2008
    Messages:
    13,277
    Likes Received:
    21
    Ratings:
    +33 / 1 / -0

    My Jersey:

    #24 Jersey
    While I agree with your assessment that it is getting harder and harder to make the roster, I am not sure where Garrett Mills comes in to play.(?)

    He was a hybrid FB/TE/ST who Belichick was quite high on--and planned on keeping on our practice squad when he went through waivers. Brad Childress pretty much ticked Bill off by nabbing him up, and has not used him correctly or to his potential yet.

    But I can certainly see your point about making the 53 man roster. All I can hope is that it will promote higher competition, trickling down to the practice squad. It will probably lead to some unexpected cuts, maybe even more than usual--but the bottom line is that our team will certainly improve in many areas. (we all know that we'll end up trading a couple for next year too i'm sure)

    However I'm not sure about trading Hobbs or Big Sey--that idea could be product of some of that KY blue grass down there
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2009
  28. Lloyd_Christmas

    Lloyd_Christmas I can delete my own crap! PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2004
    Messages:
    1,420
    Likes Received:
    5
    Ratings:
    +5 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    We want to win the SB this year. Trading Seymour in a contract year is not a good idea.

    IMO, the move can't be justified based on the low 1st/high 2nd we might be able to net for him in a trade compared to the 3rd we will undoubtedly get for him as a comp pick (worst case scenario) or the pick that we could get for him if we franchise him next year and trade him.

    In the two latter scenarios, we get one more solid year out of him which helps us make a push for a SB win this year. That is more important to me than the difference between (at worst) a 3rd round pick next year compared to a low 1st round pick this year.

    I don't see this happening and I'm not sure it would help the team even if it did happen.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page