Someone explain to me what PI really is

Discussion in ' - Patriots Fan Forum' started by BradyManny, Nov 26, 2006.

  1. BradyManny

    BradyManny Pro Bowl Player

    The most frustrating thing of all as I see it is that the Pats, who have been F'd over by these PI calls more than anybody, can't get a PI call to go there way.

    I doubt they have stats for these, but I'm willing to bet we are amongst the highest in the league in PI calls against and amongst the lowest in the league in PI calls for us.

    And maybe I'm just a conspiracy theorist, but I think the fact that the "Ty Law rule" is called the "Ty Law rule" and that the league associates PI with the Patriots vs. Colts leads us to be on the losing end of many a PI call. The Patriots are associated with pass interference rules and this is engrained in the ref's mind. At this point, I feel that if there is any kind of deep jump ball pass against us, all a wideout need do is to throw his arms up incredulously and bank on the ref's penchant for succumbing to peer pressure.
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2006
  2. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi Supporter

    #12 Jersey

    I can't explain it. I hate blaming the refs, it makes me feel like such a pitiful, whiney loser. But, wow, I just didn't see those calls against us today. Thankfully they didn't come back to haunt us but those were as bad as the one against Asante in the playoffs vs. Denver last year.

  3. BradyManny

    BradyManny Pro Bowl Player

    I love blaming refs. I had a penchant for getting Ts on the basketball floor and I make Tommy Heinsohn sound sane.

    That said, if I'm looking at it objectively I'm seeing two things: a) NFL officiating continuing to get worse b) the Pats & their style of play being on the losing end of rule changes & rule emphasis.
  4. PatsFaninAZ

    PatsFaninAZ In the Starting Line-Up

    If you don't look back for the ball and you make contact, and the ball lands within 5 yards of the receiver, you're really in no position to gripe when the flag comes out. I thought the PI call on Hobbs -- the one at the 18 yard line that led to the Bears' field goal -- was blatent and an easy call. I thought the one on the touchdown drive by Hawkins was iffy and not consistent with a few calls that did not go the patriots' way. When in doubt, the rule is to presume that the contact was incidental. I thought they did a good job of calling it that way both ways throughout the game until that call, and it was a game changing call. I thought the hold on Hobbs in the end zone was close, and they only showed one replay. If they meant illegal contact and instead said "hold," I guess that's a legitimate call. It was awful close to 5 yards though probably beyond. Couldn't tell if he got jersey or not. If he did, you have to call it a hold, since the pass was to his man and it would have likely been a touchdown but for the contact.

    Bottom line for me was that one of the calls was a bad call, and the other two kind of seemed bad only because they followed the bad call. Anyway, here's the rule:

    4. It is pass interference by either team when any player movement beyond the offensive line significantly hinders the progress of an eligible player or such player's opportunity to catch the ball during a legal forward pass. When players are competing for position to make a play on the ball, any contact by hands, arms, or body shall be considered incidental unless prohibited. Prohibited conduct shall be when a player physically restricts or impedes the opponent in such a manner that is visually evident and materially affects the opponent's opportunity to gain position or retain his position to catch the ball. If a player has gained position, he shall not be considered to have impeded or restricted his opponent in a prohibited manner if all of his actions are a bona fide effort to go to and catch the ball. Provided an eligible player is not interfered with in such a manner, the following exceptions to pass interference will prevail: (a) If neither player is looking for the ball and there is incidental contact in the act of moving to the ball that does not materially affect the route of an eligible player, there is no interference. If there is any question whether the incidental contact materially affects the route, the ruling shall be no interference.
    Note: Inadvertent tripping is not a foul in this situation.
    (b) Any eligible player looking for and intent on playing the ball who initiates contact, however severe, while attempting to move to the spot of comple tion or interception will not be called for interference.
    (c) Any eligible player who makes contact, however severe, with one or more eligible players while looking for and making a genuine attempt to catch or bat a reachable ball, will not be called for interference.
    (d) It must be remembered that defensive players have as much right to the ball as offensive eligible receivers.
    (e) Pass interference by the defense is not to be called when the forward pass is clearly uncatchable.
    (f) Note: There is no defensive pass interference behind the line.
  5. BradyManny

    BradyManny Pro Bowl Player

    Interesting post PatsFaninAz. Where does one find these rule defintions?

    The part that sticks out to me is:
    "If a player has gained position, he shall not be considered to have impeded or restricted his opponent in a prohibited manner if all of his actions are a bona fide effort to go to and catch the ball."

    The Hobbs call may have been correct, but the Hawkins call was unjust, he was simply a defender making a play for the ball.
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2006
  6. Willie55

    Willie55 In the Starting Line-Up

    Two crappy calls. It seemed that the refs were trying to keep the NFL's "marquee matchup" of the week interesting instead of it being a blowout. Every week those types of plays go uncalled in other games.
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2006
  7. PatsSteve1

    PatsSteve1 In the Starting Line-Up

    Explain what PI is? It's whatever the ref says it is -:)
  8. STFarmy

    STFarmy In the Starting Line-Up

    It would be fine if PI was called consistently, but it's not. Aikman was right; it should be a penalty that is subject to review. Or, if you're not a fan of review, you could go by Zolak's opinion that it should be a 15 yard penalty, not spotted at the instance of the foul.
  9. Kdo5

    Kdo5 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    #26 Jersey

    Was it Artrells PI that the damn reciever pushed Artrells hand away? Plus he was playing the ball.
  10. mtbykr

    mtbykr Supporter Supporter

    #37 Jersey

    It's the ref's keeping the bears in the game---period.!

    What's funny is about 3 minutes (real time not clock time) before the garbage hawkins call....i looked at my dad (who was visiting for turkey day) and said "i'm glad these guys are doing the game, they are letting the players decide the game...because up until this point you forgot the refs were there"

    I should have just kept my mouth shut:bricks:
  11. onegameatatime

    onegameatatime Third String But Playing on Special Teams

    If there is a big flaw in the great game of football, the arbitrary nature of PI calls is it. These can be freakin' 45-yard penalties, not reviewable, and often quite arbitrary.

    The Pats got really jobbed twice -- the call on Hawkins and the no-call on the play against Chad Jackson. Some said there were bad calls the other way, but I'm not sure what they had in mind.

    The league really should do something, whether it's allowing replay and/or changing it to a 15 yard penalty and accepting that there will be some take-downs.
  12. BradfordPatsFan

    BradfordPatsFan In the Starting Line-Up

    #11 Jersey

    I've posted before that I officiate several sports and one of the first things you are taught is "common sense officiating". That is, sometimes you need to trust your eyes, not the rule book.

    Yes, to the letter of the law, Hobbs may have committed PI on one or two occasions today. However, if you let the play unfold and watch the result, in other words, see the whole play, then you see that there probably wasn't PI. The Hawkins play was just pathetic. No intention of "interfering", he made a good play.

    As for the "holding" call, you also should look at it this way, Hobbs has a cast on his wrist. Can he hold anyone with that hand? Important question to answer since that is the hand he supposedly "held" with. I agree that "illegal contact" was probably the better call, and while that may be semantics to some, it is important because I do not believe he was yet 5 yards down field. The Bears had 1st and goal inside the 5 and the contact came at the goal line. In fact, my first reaction was, "They cannot be calling illegal contact on this play." Sure enough they didn't but if you know the players and the situation, you should have known that a "hold" was very unlikely also.
  13. Michael

    Michael Moderator Staff Member Supporter

    #12 Jersey

    Very reminiscent of the the call on Samuel going into the half in the Denver playoff game. Complete b.s. 10 points awarded to Chitcago for nothing. :p But, they won despite the incompetent *cough* corrupt *cough* officials.
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2006
  14. poppabear721

    poppabear721 Rookie

    You know.. I will freely admit that I am a Pats " homer" . If we get the better end of a call, so be it. Been a Pats fan for 20 + years, and suffered through some horrible seasons. BUT... I will also admit when we should have gotten a flag. I dont want to see a game decided by a flag. The refs should never decide a game. That being said, the Pats have been targeted all season, starting with " excessive celebration" and " taunting". Hell, the Pats have been targeted for a few seasons going back to the playoffs at the Razor with Indy. The PI flags today were a complete load of crap. Lately, I have grown tired of MLB because of the disparity among the teams. But.. with the NFL, we are supposed to believe that any team can beat any other team on any given sunday, right? How the hell are we supposed to believe that when there is obvious collusion among the NFL to flag " Patriot " football?? There seems to be a mutual decision to make sure the Colts are in the playoffs every year. But seriously, ever take a look at their schedule? Media whore Manning has to be seen in the playoffs every year, and then choke as soon as the Colts play a real team. Good thing I dont believe in conspiracy theories.. Id think the fix is in...........
  15. shakadave

    shakadave In the Starting Line-Up

    Hard to make any sarcasm bite hard enough here....

    Yes, you're right. The PI on Hawkins was the worst PI call I've ever seen. I don't claim to be a rules expert in any way, shape, or form, but on that play even I could see that Hawkins did nothing wrong. He got position. He never touched the receiver --- the receiver touched his arms. He looked back.

    I checked the rule book, and Rule 118. A. III. clearly states: "If an offensive team, that team in possession of the ball, chucks up a bomb against the Patriots and said team's receiver fails to catch it or in any way gain possession of it, then it shall be deemed pass interference against the Patriots."

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