So regardless of the outcome with Berman, this needs to get bigger than just the Pats

[BradyFTW!]

I think Kraft finally had his come-to-jesus moment when Goodell issued his appeal ruling. You can say 'too little too late', and that's fine. But I'd hope that in any closed-door conversations he'd be totally honest with other owners that he backed the wrong horse and played politics rather than looked at facts the past decade. He was wrong to back him originally, wrong to support him during Rice and Bountygate, wrong to give in during Deflategate.

Goodell won't be ousted any time soon, but hopefully Kraft is no longer in his corner, and the reasonable owners are starting to realize that the NFL is a cash cow with or without him, but with him the league's turned into a litigious, scandal-driven nightmare.

Even if he did have his own personal come-to-jesus moment (which, to be frank, I still doubt), I think his Bountygate sentiments reflect how the majority of the owners feel. It's possible that Goodell's repeated mismanagement of issues and central participation in scandals has changed some of their views, but I think most of these owners don't really know/care until they're in the crosshairs. And when they are in the crosshairs, they find that it's them against the rest. Kraft is as guilty of that as anyone; more than anyone else, he's gone out of his way to be the voice of the owners in support of Goodell over the years.

 

[TommyD4207]

I still think that as the heat turns up on Goodell - if that's re-directed at the owners, they'll realize that Goodell no longer serves his purpose as an attack dog and buffer

I don't buy into the "Goodell made us a lot of money" - Football is more popular than ever before, largely in spite of Roger - not because of him. And he's clearly shown himself to personally be incompetent on several levels. Just think of how much a COMPETENT Commissioner might have been able to do?

It wouldn't shock me to see the owners make him a sacrificial lamb and perhaps even get someone competent in the job.

Tagliabue made them a lot of money too.

This crap didn't happen when he was there.

 

[Froob]

Even if he did have his own personal come-to-jesus moment (which, to be frank, I still doubt), I think his Bountygate sentiments reflect how the majority of the owners feel. It's possible that Goodell's repeated mismanagement of issues and central participation in scandals has changed some of their views, but I think most of these owners don't really know/care until they're in the crosshairs. And when they are in the crosshairs, they find that it's them against the rest. Kraft is as guilty of that as anyone; more than anyone else, he's gone out of his way to be the voice of the owners in support of Goodell over the years.

That's why I don't think you can fault Jerry much for not having his back. Kraft probably told him to suck it up more probable than not. Spanos should shut his trap after he appealed towelgate tho....who knows what sticky substance was in those towels they were using....

 

[BradyFTW!]

I know everyone sick of Katrina, we are to, but we have to live with it. Submerge Boston in 40 feet of water an see how log it takes them to come back with little help, its 25-75 years sorry. Then cover their shores in oil, its not easy and we are doing the best we can without complaining to much. Then send in a real jerk to destroy the one thing that keeps use together because we are always losers and cant win anything.. really hurts
hope your doing well betterthanthealternative, nice to hear from you. You always have pretty cool post

I just went to New Orleans for the first time this past year. Watched the AFCCG after a day of drinking in the French Quarter, and after the thorough destruction of the Colts I celebrated with probably a few too many hurricanes and hand grenades. The first I heard of deflategate was waking up the next morning with a raging hangover and seeing the headlines pop up on my phone. It was not a good day.

Not really sure how that's relevant, just wanted to say that New Orleans is awesome and I can't wait to go back.

 

[BradyFTW!]

That's why I don't think you can fault Jerry much for not having his back. Kraft probably told him to suck it up more probable than not. Spanos should shut his trap after he appealed towelgate tho....who knows what sticky substance was in those towels they were using....

Yeah, I would even go a step further and bet that Jones' enthusiastic support of Goodell here is retribution for Kraft's failing to have his back during the uncapped year sanctions. And with good reason, if the Patriots had been screwed the way the Cowboys/Redskins were, I would've been absolutely livid.

 

[Froob]

Yeah, I would even go a step further and bet that Jones' enthusiastic support of Goodell here is retribution for Kraft's failing to have his back during the uncapped year sanctions. And with good reason, if the Patriots had been screwed the way the Cowboys/Redskins were, I would've been absolutely livid.

Is my understanding correct that they set a soft ruling on "don't spend this much" with no specific amount and the Cowboys and Redskins they determined spent too much? How can you punish somebody on a subjective limit?

 

[JoeSixPat]

Tagliabue made them a lot of money too.

This crap didn't happen when he was there.

Well, Tags would probably be the first to admit he's not necessarily the commissioner to take advantage of revenue streams dominated by quickly evolving consumer electronics

But the point is, I don't think anyone can truly give Goodell personal credit on this - with all the employees the NFL has there's several people dedicated to every consumer consumption medium to make sure the League profits. That's there with or without Goodell

 

[BradyFTW!]

Is my understanding correct that they set a soft ruling on "don't spend this much" with no specific amount and the Cowboys and Redskins they determined spent too much? How can you punish somebody on a subjective limit?

Especially when the league approved the contracts in the first place. If the league didn't like the contracts, they shouldn't have approved them when filed.

But of course the league couldn't/wouldn't do that in the pre-work stoppage climate that they were dealing with. So the league office approved the contracts, and didn't make a stink about it until after the CBA negotiations, when the NFLPA had basically no leverage. Then the league went ahead and crushed both teams for failing to properly collude against the players like they were told to.

To this day, I still find it incredible that this never became a bigger deal. In hindsight, I'd even say that the NFLPA should have gone nuclear over it. Cap space stripped away from teams is money out of the players' pockets.

At this point, the NFLPA should take the same stance that the NBA players' union takes. Even when the league approaches them with somewhat reasonable requests (smoothing the cap jumps over the next couple years), the NBA union basically tells them to go to hell because they simply don't trust the owners after the last work stoppage. The NFLPA needs to get there as well. Always assume the owners are screwing you, because they're sure as hell trying to. Don't give them an inch, ever.

 

[RayClay]

Kraft did every good thing Goodell got credit for. That's a pretty big traitorous fcking over and I don't think he could believe it until the absurd penalties came down. We'll never know if he planned to pay lip service to the party line, then get him booted when he could, because he's out in the open now.

This whole article, or any article about the current package is 100% Kraft quotes, I doubt goodell even knows what's in it.

A recent meeting between Kraft and Steve Burke, the chief executive of NBC Universal, began the process of negotiating the enhancements NBC needed to justify a far higher payment.

Burke said that Kraft told him: “ ‘Think of ways to add value to the existing package.’ So we did it until we got to a place where we were basically at break-even.” He said that the break-even calculation excluded fees from retransmission consent fees that broadcasters demand from cable systems to retransmit their signals.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/15/sports/football/nfl-cashes-in-on-its-popularity.html?_r=0

 

[TommyD4207]

Is my understanding correct that they set a soft ruling on "don't spend this much" with no specific amount and the Cowboys and Redskins they determined spent too much? How can you punish somebody on a subjective limit?

In the event the 2011 season started without a new CBA, the previous CBA said it would be an uncapped year.

Uncapped. As in no cap.

The owners colluded (which is what it was) to set an imaginary cap. The Redskins and Cowboys spent over it, which they were completely in their rights to do.

Goodell imposed fines and discipline, and it was Bob Kraft telling them, nicely, to bend over and take it "for the good of the league".

 

[raduray]

That's why I don't think you can fault Jerry much for not having his back. Kraft probably told him to suck it up more probable than not. Spanos should shut his trap after he appealed towelgate tho....who knows what sticky substance was in those towels they were using....

Jerry Jones on Deflategate. You can guess who he's talking about.

"I can speak to that because on a personal basis as well as for my franchise and our Dallas Cowboys franchise, we've had that happen to us. I'm sitting there living with the result of the commissioner's decision still today that I didn't agree with when it happened. And so some of the very people sometimes that have the biggest complaints, they're the ones who give you a phone call and say, 'Hey let's be a team player now and let's all get in here and realize that this happens to everybody and let's go on and compete. We've got a great league and a great game.'"

http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/jerry-jones-backs-roger-goodell-standoff-robert-kraft/story?id=32767879

 

[RayClay]

I still think that as the heat turns up on Goodell - if that's re-directed at the owners, they'll realize that Goodell no longer serves his purpose as an attack dog and buffer

I don't buy into the "Goodell made us a lot of money" - Football is more popular than ever before, largely in spite of Roger - not because of him. And he's clearly shown himself to personally be incompetent on several levels. Just think of how much a COMPETENT Commissioner might have been able to do?

It wouldn't shock me to see the owners make him a sacrificial lamb and perhaps even get someone competent in the job.

Yeah, the majority will turn, they don't need this.

I don't buy into the "Goodell made us a lot of money" - Football is more popular than ever before, largely in spite of Roger - not because of him. And he's clearly shown himself to personally be incompetent on several levels.

See my posts above. CBA contract, all media deals, Reebock and probably every other product endorsement - all Kraft. This is a backstabbing of Greek tragedy proportions, I still don't think Kraft can believe it even though he's basically said the league is corrupt [I see no other interpretation of "can't place faith in"].

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

You can add Incognito and the O-Line coach (whose name escapes me) for the Dolphins to that list too. While people don't want to admit it because Incognito's a scumbag he got railroaded too, and the O-line coach just filed a defamation suit.

You're right, this is bigger than the Pats, bigger than the Pats and Saints. This is an NFL issue that took off when Goodell took over, he drastically expanded the power of the Commish office (and the NFLPA took money over control of these situations, so shame on them too); cameraplacementgate was the first glimpse into the kind of operation Goodell runs, and in that one you could at least say a rule (or at least a memo guideline) was clearly broken. In this case and in the others there was no clear violation of anything, just a story the league allowed to get out of control, then the railroading of anyone in the way. What an absolute joke, Goodell needs to be fired and shamed for what he's done to such an amazing sport and league.

Well said.
A lot of people sometimes don't get it. I'm not putting them down, I am guilty of it too sometimes.
But it is a fact: when an unpopular person is allowed to be railroaded then we all but guarantee others get railroaded. And those others will be less and less the "unpopular" types. Eventually those railroaded will be the good people who just happen to disagree (and sometimes rightly and importantly disagree).
This is a direct result of the masses/media making sure their is only one acceptable opinion and if someone holds a differing opinion they too will be railroaded (railroaded in the small, everyday ways).

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

Jerry Jones on Deflategate. You can guess who he's talking about.

Yea, there is some truth to that, no doubt. However, a little bit of comparative thinking is needed. Jones got a slap on the wrist compared to Kraft. The Patriots name was majorly dragged through the mud, they had a #1 and a #4 taken, they had their hugely main cog(Brady) taken from them for 25% of the season, along with taking a bunch of money.
Even then Kraft did suck it up and he sucked up FAR FAR more than Jones. Anyone believe Jones would be saying this if commissioner A-Hole had done all that to the Cowboys unjustly? Jones would have told Kraft to take a flying F'n leap then drove his Lamborghini at break neck speeds to his Harvard trained lawyers office. Jones would not have accepted this -- so he can shut his piehole. Side note to Jerry: you don't think this much more damaging train will be pulling into your station one day?? Wise up...

Now if Jones had said "hey, Kraft(other owners) called me and told me to suck it up and just play football even though the Cowboys were wronged. And I told him(them) it would get worse, maybe a lot worse, if we don't draw the line somewhere with the commissioner. And Kraft(they) said they will suck it up too whatever the punishment" -- if Jones had said that then he is elevated to awesome status for his underlying (ahem) code of ethics. Otherwise, again, Jones can suck it as far as I am concerned. He is smart enough to know the punishment for the Patriots is unfathomable and that this train is coming for him (and Snyder). The powerful teams are the biggest threat to Goodell. Further, the powerful team owners tend to be in the national news a lot more and sometimes unjustly.
So (A)Jones would never accept this kind of astonishing, draconian punishment from commissioner Sh!+ bird. and (B) He should know this has significant difference from his wroning and know that the graph/trend says this train will be coming for him/other powerful owners.

 

[XLIX]

Is my understanding correct that they set a soft ruling on "don't spend this much" with no specific amount and the Cowboys and Redskins they determined spent too much? How can you punish somebody on a subjective limit?

What happened is this:

1) League said you can spend anything you want during the uncapped year, but any new contracts will have their signing bonuses prorated against the cap during future years. Basically the signing bonuses will hit future cap years as normal (and everyone knew that the salary cap was coming back).

For example, if you gave someone a 5 year deal with a $20 million signing bonus, the signing bonus cap hit will be ignored for year 1 (because there was no cap), but hit your cap for $4 million per year during years 2, 3, 4 and 5.

2) League also said teams will not be permitted to pay an obscenely high 1st year salary in lieu of a signing bonus. Any contract so heavily front loaded will take the 1st year salary and count it as a signing bonus for future years.

3) Dallas gave Miles Austin a new deal which was essentially 4 years, $25 million (it was actually longer than that, but with numbers at the end which would never realistically be honored). There was no signing bonus, but $17 million of that money was fully guaranteed on signing and to be paid in year 1 of the deal. So Austin's year 1 salary was $17 million, and his years 2, 3 and 4 salary was a total of roughly $8 million.

4) Reasonable people can disagree on what the proper solution to the above dilemma should be. The NFL decided Dallas would be charged a $10 million cap hit, which they could spread out however they wanted over 2012 and/or 2013. Basically the league said "we are going to treat some of that year 1 salary as a signing bonus because that's what it was."

The above numbers are very rough, and there were also some shenanigans whereby they converted his remaining $8 million into a signing bonus, but basically all the NFL did was treat some of Miles Austin's 1st year salary as if it was a signing bonus.

 

[pherein]

I just went to New Orleans for the first time this past year. Watched the AFCCG after a day of drinking in the French Quarter, and after the thorough destruction of the Colts I celebrated with probably a few too many hurricanes and hand grenades. The first I heard of deflategate was waking up the next morning with a raging hangover and seeing the headlines pop up on my phone. It was not a good day.

Not really sure how that's relevant, just wanted to say that New Orleans is awesome and I can't wait to go back.

Thanks means alot to us, we really like people comming here and having fun. We have problems like most cities. I was Advanced life support for Kerr ambulance in Kittery, New castle, portsmith, dover, etc some of the smartest, common sence , informed , genuiny kind people there. We alway like when the Pats fans come to town here. what the hand grenades, lol, though a little tip baking soda and water is the best anti-acid and help with queasiness

 

[ThatllMoveTheChains!!!]

What happened is this:

1) League said you can spend anything you want during the uncapped year, but any new contracts will have their signing bonuses prorated against the cap during future years. Basically the signing bonuses will hit future cap years as normal (and everyone knew that the salary cap was coming back).

For example, if you gave someone a 5 year deal with a $20 million signing bonus, the signing bonus cap hit will be ignored for year 1 (because there was no cap), but hit your cap for $4 million per year during years 2, 3, 4 and 5.

2) League also said teams will not be permitted to pay an obscenely high 1st year salary in lieu of a signing bonus. Any contract so heavily front loaded will take the 1st year salary and count it as a signing bonus for future years.

3) Dallas gave Miles Austin a new deal which was essentially 4 years, $25 million (it was actually longer than that, but with numbers at the end which would never realistically be honored). There was no signing bonus, but $17 million of that money was fully guaranteed on signing and to be paid in year 1 of the deal. So Austin's year 1 salary was $17 million, and his years 2, 3 and 4 salary was a total of roughly $8 million.

4) Reasonable people can disagree on what the proper solution to the above dilemma should be. The NFL decided Dallas would be charged a $10 million cap hit, which they could spread out however they wanted over 2012 and/or 2013. Basically the league said "we are going to treat some of that year 1 salary as a signing bonus because that's what it was."

The above numbers are very rough, and there were also some shenanigans whereby they converted his remaining $8 million into a signing bonus, but basically all the NFL did was treat some of Miles Austin's 1st year salary as if it was a signing bonus.

You do understand doing any of that is collusion.

 

[XLIX]

You do understand doing any of that is collusion.

It is not collusion when the NFLPA signs off on it with their approval, which they reportedly did.

EDIT: Also, the 2011 CBA indemnified the NFL from any accusations or charges of collusion for anything that took place beforehand. Basically the players sold out the Cowboys and Redskins in exchange for a slightly higher cap league wide. I hate the league office and I hate the Cowboys and I hate the Redskins, so I really don't care who won or lost that little duel.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Yea, there is some truth to that, no doubt. However, a little bit of comparative thinking is needed. Jones got a slap on the wrist compared to Kraft. The Patriots name was majorly dragged through the mud, they had a #1 and a #4 taken, they had their hugely main cog(Brady) taken from them for 25% of the season, along with taking a bunch of money.
Even then Kraft did suck it up and he sucked up FAR FAR more than Jones. Anyone believe Jones would be saying this if commissioner A-Hole had done all that to the Cowboys unjustly? Jones would have told Kraft to take a flying F'n leap then drove his Lamborghini at break neck speeds to his Harvard trained lawyers office. Jones would not have accepted this -- so he can shut his piehole. Side note to Jerry: you don't think this much more damaging train will be pulling into your station one day?? Wise up...

Now if Jones had said "hey, Kraft(other owners) called me and told me to suck it up and just play football even though the Cowboys were wronged. And I told him(them) it would get worse, maybe a lot worse, if we don't draw the line somewhere with the commissioner. And Kraft(they) said they will suck it up too whatever the punishment" -- if Jones had said that then he is elevated to awesome status for his underlying (ahem) code of ethics. Otherwise, again, Jones can suck it as far as I am concerned. He is smart enough to know the punishment for the Patriots is unfathomable and that this train is coming for him (and Snyder). The powerful teams are the biggest threat to Goodell. Further, the powerful team owners tend to be in the national news a lot more and sometimes unjustly.
So (A)Jones would never accept this kind of astonishing, draconian punishment from commissioner Sh!+ bird. and (B) He should know this has significant difference from his wroning and know that the graph/trend says this train will be coming for him/other powerful owners.

You're definitely not wrong, but I doubt Jones particularly cares to make that distinction re: levels of being screwed. As he probably sees it, Kraft didn't have his back so there's no reason for him to have Kraft's.

And the reason why Jones wouldn't say that is because, by saying it, he would be giving Kraft at least partly what he wants: public support for the notion that the Patriots' punishment was unjust. Any statement acknowledging that the Patriots were wronged--even one that clarifies why he won't come to their defense--indirectly comes to their defense.

 

[XLIX]

You're definitely not wrong, but I doubt Jones particularly cares to make that distinction re: levels of being screwed. As he probably sees it, Kraft didn't have his back so there's no reason for him to have Kraft's.

I think that's exactly it. Jones jumped on this chance to be a d-bag and throw Kraft's words back in his face.