Should Pats draft a WR?

[Gronkandez]

Re: Koppen resigned for 2 years

Tippett's been talking out of his ass all offseason, and is doing the same thing here. If you wish to mimic that, you go right ahead.

Don't drag me into this mess. I'm only giving my opinion that a rookie WR has a slim chance of getting significant playing time based upon past history, the propensity of BB to play veterans over rookies (see RB last year), and the depth at WR.

 

[JackBauer]

Re: Koppen resigned for 2 years

Don't drag me into this mess. I'm only giving my opinion that a rookie WR has a slim chance of getting significant playing time based upon past history, the propensity of BB to play veterans over rookies (see RB last year), and the depth at WR.

The depth at WR is largely illusory.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Koppen resigned for 2 years

You're clueless.

Given that I've been pretty much dead on with this team from day one, that I'm of the belief that the team should use most of the draft on defense, and that out main difference revolves around your obsession with missing the obvious about the receiving corps, the irony in your post is a beautiful thing to behold.

 

[ATippett56]

Re: Center Dan Koppen re-signed for 2 years

Deion Branch was the team's #3 receiver in his rookie year, in both receptions and yards. He was the team's #2 receiver in YPC.

Ten years ago. The New England Patriots have not successfully developed a wide receiver directly from collegiate ranks since 2002.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Koppen resigned for 2 years

Don't drag me into this mess. I'm only giving my opinion that a rookie WR has a slim chance of getting significant playing time based upon past history, the propensity of BB to play veterans over rookies (see RB last year), and the depth at WR.

1.) You responded to my post, which was a response to Tippett's post. I didn't drag you into anything.

2.) I'm not sure what past history you think you're talking about. What quality receiver, who was ready to play as a rookie and proved it over the course of his career, didn't get significant playing time as a rookie WR under BB? Perhaps a list of all the great WRs that BB has drafted would provide the answer.....

See, the problem with just jumping on someone else's posting bandwagon without thinking things through is that, you know...

you don't think things through.

 

[Gronkandez]

Re: Koppen resigned for 2 years

The depth at WR is largely illusory.

Very possible.

Who would you endorse them drafting/which guy is the best candidate to be drafted and getting decent playing time at WR? Welker/Gonzo/Edleman have the slot position filled so I'm guessing it would be an outside the numbers guy. Dare I say Stephen Hill at 31?

 

[JackBauer]

Re: Center Dan Koppen re-signed for 2 years

Ten years ago. The New England Patriots have not successfully developed a wide receiver directly from collegiate ranks since 2002.

How many have they drafted, and in which round(s)?

 

[ATippett56]

Re: Center Dan Koppen re-signed for 2 years

Terry Glenn was great what are you talking about??? You didn't say head coach! (I beat your critics to the punch) :singing:

Terry Glenn was the seventh overall draft selection in the 1996 NFL Draft during the Bill Parcells era.

 

[JackBauer]

Re: Koppen resigned for 2 years

Very possible.

Who would you endorse them drafting/which guy is the best candidate to be drafted and getting decent playing time at WR? Welker/Gonzo/Edleman have the slot position filled so I'm guessing it would be an outside the numbers guy. Dare I say Stephen Hill at 31?

I dunno. As I said, I'm only aware of the need, not who the ideal candidate(s) would be to fill said need.

Ideally you wouldn't even need to rely on a draftee much this year, as long as Lloyd and Welker stay healthy. But if either of them (particularly Lloyd) go down, and none of the reclamation projects pan out in any appreciable way, you're facing a similar situation as last year unless you can get another outside threat in the draft.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Center Dan Koppen re-signed for 2 years

Ten years ago. The New England Patriots have not successfully developed a wide receiver directly from collegiate ranks since 2002.

Again with the lousy arguments that avoid answering the initial question....

1.) Name the great outside linebackers BB has drafted and developed directly from the collegiate ranks since 2002.*

2.) Name the great Safeties BB has drafted and developed directly from the collegiate ranks since 2002.*

3.) Name the great defensive linemen that BB has drafted and developed directly from the collegiate ranks since 2002*

4.) I'll ask again...How does the fact that Tate and Price were cut change what JackBauer posted, in any way?



*Since BB has never taken a WR in the first round, it wouldn't be fair to count any 1st round pick in our discussion, so please limit any example you give to rounds 2 and below.

 

[ATippett56]

Re: Center Dan Koppen re-signed for 2 years

How many have they drafted, and in which round(s)?

National Football League: NFL Draft History - by Team

 

[ATippett56]

Re: Center Dan Koppen re-signed for 2 years

1.) Name the great outside linebackers BB has drafted and developed directly from the collegiate ranks since 2002.*

The New England Patriots failure to develop a 3-4 outside linebacker directly from the collegiate ranks is one the reasons why the New England Patriots defense has become worse since 2009.

2.) Name the great Safeties BB has drafted and developed directly from the collegiate ranks since 2002.*

Eugene Wilson was selected in the second round of the 2003 NFL Draft and started 15 of 16 games during the 2003 NFL Season as a rookie.

3.) Name the great defensive linemen that BB has drafted and developed directly from the collegiate ranks since 2002*

Ty Warren was selected in the first round of the 2003 NFL Draft and Vince Wilfork was selected in the first round of the 2004 NFL Draft.

4.) I'll ask again...How does the fact that Tate and Price were cut change what JackBauer posted, in any way?

Either the current coaching staff lack patience to develop wide receivers from the collegiate ranks or the scouting department recommends the wrong type of receiver for the offensive system.

*Since BB has never taken a WR in the first round, it wouldn't be fair to count any 1st round pick in our discussion, so please limit any example you give to rounds 2 and below.

Nope! I won't play YOUR game.

 

[Displaced - Fan]

Re: Center Dan Koppen re-signed for 2 years

Which rookie wide receiver excelled in his first season for the New England Patriots offense during the Bill Belichick era?

Deion Branch had 40+ catches his rookie year. I think that qualifies.

 

[Displaced - Fan]

Re: Center Dan Koppen re-signed for 2 years

Ten years ago. The New England Patriots have not successfully developed a wide receiver directly from collegiate ranks since 2002.

You asked to name 1 WR in Bill's era and he did. What's the problem?

 

[ATippett56]

Re: Center Dan Koppen re-signed for 2 years

A rookie DL, OLB or DB would rot on the bench in 2012, especially considering all the free agent defenders signed in March 2012.

Recent history says otherwise:

Brandon Spikes started 8 of 12 games his rookie season.
Jermaine Cunningham started 11 of 15 games his rookie season.
Devin McCourty started 16 of 16 games in his rookie season.
Ras-I Dowling started 2 of 2 games in his rookie season.

 

[ATippett56]

Re: Center Dan Koppen re-signed for 2 years

You asked to name 1 WR in Bill's era and he did. What's the problem?

A decade has past.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Center Dan Koppen re-signed for 2 years

The New England Patriots failure to develop a 3-4 outside linebacker directly from the collegiate ranks is one the reasons why the New England Patriots defense has become worse since 2009.

The New England Patriots failure to develop a middle-deep WR is one of the reason why the New England Patriots offense has been shut down by good teams in recent years.

Also, the answer to my question is 0

Eugene Wilson was selected in the second round of the 2003 NFL Draft and started 15 of 16 games during the 2003 NFL Season as a rookie.

Eugene Wilson was drafted as a cornerback, not a safety. Thus, the answer to my question here is 0 (Sanders was certainly serviceable, however).

Ty Warren was selected in the first round of the 2003 NFL Draft and Vince Wilfork was selected in the first round of the 2004 NFL Draft.

Both mentioned players are first round picks. Thus the answer to my question here is 0.

Either the current coaching staff lack patience to develop wide receivers from the collegiate ranks or the scouting department recommends the wrong type of receiver for the offensive system.

This is one of the more ridiculous comments ever made on this site, given that you want to spend picks on the DE/OLB spots, and that the Patriots have yet to draft a single top tier DE/OLB/S outside of the first round.

Nope! I won't play YOUR game.

It's not my game, it's yours. You're the one who decided to play the "since..." game after I pointed out Branch as a WR developed under BB. You're just pissed because you've got no point to your argument. Outside of the first round, the team has developed as many top level DE/OLB/S prospects since 2002 as they have top level WRs.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Center Dan Koppen re-signed for 2 years

A decade has past.

2002 is too far back, says the guy who was pointing to Wilfork (2004), Warren (2003) and Wilson (2003).

 

[JackBauer]

Re: Center Dan Koppen re-signed for 2 years

A decade has past.

How is that at all relevant?

Regardless, the need at WR is still present and very real.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Center Dan Koppen re-signed for 2 years

Recent history says otherwise:

Brandon Spikes started 8 of 12 games his rookie season.
Jermaine Cunningham started 11 of 15 games his rookie season.
Devin McCourty started 16 of 16 games in his rookie season.
Ras-I Dowling started 2 of 2 games in his rookie season.

Spikes/McCourty/Dowling are not DE/OLB or S, and Cunningham wasn't very good when he played. But, let's use your logic:

Hernandez started 7 of 14 games his rookie season
Gronkowski started 11 of 16 games his rookie season
Tate started 1 of 2 games his rookie season and 10 of 16 games his second season