Semi OT: Flores suing NFL and NYG. Texts from Bill involved in the suit.

[Ring 6]

So right now there is Tomlin, Lovie, Rivera and McDaniel as minority HCs. Am I missing anyone?

Saleh (Lebanese and Muslim) and also because the Jete themselves are a minority of 1 compared to real football teams.

 

[amfootball]

Saleh (Lebanese) and also because the Jete themselves are a minority of 1 compared to real football teams.

I believe the NFL is going to have 1-2 more minority hires and look to squash the lawsuit before it gets started. The NFL playbook is so obvious sometimes.

 

[Ring 6]

I believe the NFL is going to have 1-2 more minority hires and look to squash the lawsuit before it gets started. The NFL playbook is so obvious sometimes.

There are no jobs available.

The defense is simple.
9.4% of football coaches are black.
36% of NFL football coaches are black
~25% of coordinators are black.
Now, 9.4% of HC are black. But over the last 10 years over 20% of the HCs hired are black.

Black coaches have much higher representation in the NFL than in other football organizations.

The league, due to the high percentage of players who are black, has put forth programs, rules and initiatives to create greater opportunity for black coaches. It’s hard to argue that it hasn’t worked unless you pretend the pool of coaches is the pool of players who are good enough to make it to the nfl, which just isn’t accurate at all.

 

[Patsgofor4]

Where did you read this about the father, because I've heard him talk about his childhood experience of basically living with the half of his family that was all black and he didn't even understand his skin color was different. If there were white people in the room or the family, I doubt he would have said that (that he was a unicorn, only light skin person).

And for all the talk on this board of what people should look like (not referring to you Patsgofor4) I have a friend who looks totally white, white complexion, straight hair, but his mother is 100% black with dark skin. My friend married a white woman, their first son looks like the mother, the second son is much darker than the father and has curly hair.

So, many assumptions are being made here that totally ignore genetics.

I don’t honestly remember the source but it was a secondhand source so it may have not been correct. It was hard to find a lot of information about him. I agree with you that judging by appearance is not always accurate. A good friend of mine from high school is super Irish. She married a light-skinned black guy and had three daughters. One has Irish white skin, another looks mixed and the third looks African-American. It’s pretty wild.

 

[upstater1]

So right now there is Tomlin, Lovie, Rivera and McDaniel as minority HCs. Am I missing anyone?

Someone included Saleh the other day. I don't now why. He has brownish skin? If so, then let's throw the dark Italians, Greeks and Turks into the mix.

I'm a Mediterranean person myself, I don't consider my Lebanese friends to be minorities.

 

[Ring 6]

Someone included Saleh the other day. I don't now why. He has brownish skin? If so, then let's throw the dark Italians, Greeks and Turks into the mix.

I'm a Mediterranean person myself, I don't consider my Lebanese friends to be minorities.

Because the 49ers received draft picks compensation for his minority status. Could be because he is Muslim I suppose.

 

[venecol]

There are no jobs available.

The defense is simple.
9.4% of football coaches are black.
36% of NFL football coaches are black
~25% of coordinators are black.
Now, 9.4% of HC are black. But over the last 10 years over 20% of the HCs hired are black.

Black coaches have much higher representation in the NFL than in other football organizations.

The league, due to the high percentage of players who are black, has put forth programs, rules and initiatives to create greater opportunity for black coaches. It’s hard to argue that it hasn’t worked unless you pretend the pool of coaches is the pool of players who are good enough to make it to the nfl, which just isn’t accurate at all.

Lester Munson has spoken.

 

[Ring 6]

Lester Munson has spoken.

Feel free to point out anything that you think is incorrect.

 

[Dingleberry]

I’ve read that his mom is white and his dad is half white/half black….so 1/4 black, which is more than enough for the NFL to claim that he is a minority hire.

It was more than enough to be an American slave in the 1800's.

If there is systemic racism in this country that dates back to slavery, I suppose 1/4 black should then qualify as black for those who are counting and keeping track.

 

[Nunchucks]

It was more than enough to be an American slave in the 1800's.

If there is systemic racism in this country that dates back to slavery, I suppose 1/4 black should then qualify as black for those who are counting and keeping track.

Why would you use the slavers' concept of what an African American is? That seems odd.

 

[Dingleberry]

Why would you use the slavers' concept of what an African American is? That seems odd.

I am saying that 1/8 (and sometimes 1/16) was enough to make an unfortunate soul eligible for enforced servitude. Since much of today's discussions of racism in this country naturally and logically go back to slavery, it seems odd not to use that concept.

If you are a supporter of reparations, I would find it odd not to use the concept that considers a 1/4 black person as black. He sure as heck would have been a slave back then with his paltry 1/4.

Had he been killed by a cop, I imagine some would find it real easy to consider his 1/4 enough to be black. Likewise, those who do not think there is an NFL issue are going to think 1/4 is good enough.

Since he says his father is black and he identifies as black, shouldn't that be enough even if it doesn't help your argument? I find it odd to judge his lack of blackness based on that.

Nothing odd about referencing history. I don't personally have a percentage cutoff for blackness. Never needed one.

 

[venecol]

Feel free to point out anything that you think is incorrect.

All of it. You're just making up your own facts and repeating the same lies over and over again hoping someone will agree with you.

There isn't a single credible source that has looked at the NFL hiring practices of black HC that agrees with your lies. Pretty much anyone that has looked at the actual numbers agrees there is a problem. It's universal.

Yet here you are, like Lester Munson, coming up with your own set of facts.

I know, I know: you'll repeat it again and again and again.

 

[Ring 6]

All of it. You're just making up your own facts and repeating the same lies over and over again hoping someone will agree with you.

There isn't a single credible source that has looked at the NFL hiring practices of black HC that agrees with your lies. Pretty much anyone that has looked at the actual numbers agrees there is a problem. It's universal.

Yet here you are, like Lester Munson, coming up with your own set of facts.

I know, I know: you'll repeat it again and again and again.

Every fact in my post is accurate.

What exactly do you consider is a problem. 20% of HC hired in the last 10 years were black, more than double the percentage of black football coaches. Is that a problem?

36% of NFL coaches are black. 4 times the industry average. Is that a problem?

“Pretty much anyone says” is the lamest of arguments.
You seem unable to specifically identify what the problem is.


I’ll help you. When Flores filed there was 1 black HC. That is under representation. But something like 13/55 HCs (it was 11/51 at some point in the last few weeks before hires) hired were black. That’s a fair representation based upon the demographics of coaches, the overall NFL coaching demographics and the movement of newt coaches up the ladder. The problem is the ones they hire aren’t succeeding.

 

[venecol]

Every fact in my post is accurate.

What exactly do you consider is a problem. 20% of HC hired in the last 10 years were black, more than double the percentage of black football coaches. Is that a problem?

36% of NFL coaches are black. 4 times the industry average. Is that a problem?

“Pretty much anyone says” is the lamest of arguments.
You seem unable to specifically identify what the problem is.


I’ll help you. When Flores filed there was 1 black HC. That is under representation. But something like 13/55 HCs (it was 11/51 at some point in the last few weeks before hires) hired were black. That’s a fair representation based upon the demographics of coaches, the overall NFL coaching demographics and the movement of newt coaches up the ladder. The problem is the ones they hire aren’t succeeding.

NFL has had more than 500 head coaches over the course of more than a century of competition. Just 24 of them have been Black.

 

[PatsWSB47]

I am saying that 1/8 (and sometimes 1/16) was enough to make an unfortunate soul eligible for enforced servitude. Since much of today's discussions of racism in this country naturally and logically go back to slavery, it seems odd not to use that concept.

If you are a supporter of reparations, I would find it odd not to use the concept that considers a 1/4 black person as black. He sure as heck would have been a slave back then with his paltry 1/4.

Had he been killed by a cop, I imagine some would find it real easy to consider his 1/4 enough to be black. Likewise, those who do not think there is an NFL issue are going to think 1/4 is good enough.

Since he says his father is black and he identifies as black, shouldn't that be enough even if it doesn't help your argument? I find it odd to judge his lack of blackness based on that.

Nothing odd about referencing history. I don't personally have a percentage cutoff for blackness. Never needed one.

The African American percenatge was actually 3/5 of a person in order to keep state representatives in Congress down by reducing population in a state......though in those days they weren't otherwise considered a person at all.

 

[Ring 6]

NFL has had more than 500 head coaches over the course of more than a century of competition. Just 24 of them have been Black.

Ok, but what does 1936 have to do with today?
Are you saying that if you reach equal representation (I.e. an equal percentage of the coaching population exists at all levels) then you need to go back and make up for who had jobs in the past?
If the league has totally color blind hiring practices so you expect them to use color as a makeup factor?

 

[Dingleberry]

The African American percenatge was actually 3/5 of a person in order to keep state representatives in Congress down by reducing population in a state......though in those days they weren't otherwise considered a person at all.

Correct. That's a different percentage though.

A black person was 3/5 of a person for government representation purposes.

A black person who was 1/16 (sometimes 1/8) black was black enough to be a slave.

Racists loved their mathematical blackness equations and determining how much black was black back then too.

 

[Joker]

Correct. That's a different percentage though.

A black person was 3/5 of a person for government representation purposes.

A black person who was 1/16 (sometimes 1/8) black was black enough to be a slave.

Racists loved their mathematical blackness equations and determining how much black was black back then too.

well...I'm half Sicilian...1/16 eh? I WANT DEM MONIES!!!!!

 

[Ring 6]

well...I'm half Sicilian...1/16 eh? I WANT DEM MONIES!!!!!

Does that mean you make an offer and it kind of can’t be refused?

 

[Dingleberry]

well...I'm half Sicilian...1/16 eh? I WANT DEM MONIES!!!!!

Do you have any Irish? In the decade of the 1640's, the population of Ireland was almost cut in half due to the Irish slave trade perpetrated by Oliver Cromwell and the English. You could certainly petition England for reparations.

As for Sicilian....many Italians and Sicilians were certainly terrorized by the Klan across the South. Not sure that qualifies though. There was a real problem with child slavery in Sicily as late as the early 1900's. Seems they liked to use slave children for sulphur mining.

The history of worldwide slavery only shows that it's not just American history that is shameful. Human history is shameful.

I am racist against the human race. What a cruel species!

But anyways, I still hope Flores ends up coaching the Patriots some day. Won't happen, unfortunately.