Science is not opinion

[Ring 6]

Science can't lie and it has been demonstrably proven the PSI drop MUST take place under these conditions.

NFL has fallen into its own trap, this was just being picked up by mainstream media and this is their counter punch. Don't fall for it. Guy went pee before taking the field.

I wish the NFL would just look into the camera and admit the truth:

They have never in 80 years considered the laws of nature and their impact on the inflation of a football, and have never tested the psi of a football after the refs release them for play, so instead of looking stupid they decided to create a controversy that they can spend a few million on, and have another Wells report.

 

[hambone1818]

Hey look guys, everyone's favorite internet scientist chimes in!

Neil deGrasse Tyson✔@neiltyson Follow
For the Patriots to blame a change in temperature for 15% lower-pressures, requires balls to be inflated with 125-degree air.


Oh and look, he can't science correctly, isn't the cute!

 

[juny]

Hey look guys, everyone's favorite internet scientist chimes in!

Neil deGrasse Tyson✔@neiltyson Follow
For the Patriots to blame a change in temperature for 15% lower-pressures, requires balls to be inflated with 125-degree air.


Oh and look, he can't science correctly, isn't the cute!

someone needs to correct him badly

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

The main concern I have is not the science, it is more of a human nature question.

The science shows that the psi will drop at least 1.1 psi, at that's even if you make every "err on the side of caution" assumption possible on the side of "no shrinkage"; such as ignoring the waterlogging effect, ignoring the fact that the rain water is likely colder than the air temperature, assuming the balls were inflated at 72 degrees and not hotter, etc.

My concern regards the ref: he ought to have enough common sense to be thinking "Hey, 1.1 psi drop over here, 1 psi drop over there, we've got nothing, really, even though the ones over here are technically crossing the line to be illegal"

He'd have to be pretty robotic to ignore that the drops in psi happened to be so similar and instead focus on the fact that only one side got out of spec.

 

[spook75]

Haha..I just picked up some balloons for my daughters birthday just now.. And the lady dead serious looks me in the eye and says" now it is cold outside so the balloons will lose some air" I told her to tell ESPN but she had clearly no idea what I was on about...LOL..

 

[SteveBsFan]

someone needs to correct him badly

It's embarrassing watching people I respect chime in with false info just so they can get retweets. I replied and told him and PFT that the Patriots are only claiming 8%, but I doubt it will be corrected.

The lies are becoming annoying. I really hope this motivates the Pats and they destroy the Hawks. When they step on stage, BB should pull out an air gauge, check the pressure in front of Goodell and then whip the ball at his face.

 

[The Brandon Five]

someone needs to correct him badly

This is a good example of why appeals to authority in matters of science are wrong-headed. He is "absolutely" wrong.

 

[hambone1818]

It's embarrassing watching people I respect chime in with false info just so they can get retweets. I replied and told him and PFT that the Patriots are only claiming 8%, but I doubt it will be corrected.

The lies are becoming annoying. I really hope this motivates the Pats and they destroy the Hawks. When they step on stage, BB should pull out an air gauge, check the pressure in front of Goodell and then whip the ball at his face.

Can you please link to him the Carnegie Mellon study, or the joint BU/BC/MIT study, or the one that was first to show it by some org. I can't remember?

Seriously, I don't tweet but it's garbage like this, from people who are generally respected, that makes people forever believe the Pats cheated even if the NFL exonerates them. He needs to be correct, not by Patriots numbers but by other scientists who not only did the numbers but ran studies to confirm.

 

[hambone1818]

The main concern I have is not the science, it is more of a human nature question.

The science shows that the psi will drop at least 1.1 psi, at that's even if you make every "err on the side of caution" assumption possible on the side of "no shrinkage"; such as ignoring the waterlogging effect, ignoring the fact that the rain water is likely colder than the air temperature, assuming the balls were inflated at 72 degrees and not hotter, etc.

My concern regards the ref: he ought to have enough common sense to be thinking "Hey, 1.1 psi drop over here, 1 psi drop over there, we've got nothing, really, even though the ones over here are technically crossing the line to be illegal"

He'd have to be pretty robotic to ignore that the drops in psi happened to be so similar and instead focus on the fact that only one side got out of spec.

Or he didn't measure them in the first place, and saw legal (12.5 or thereabouts) on the Colts side and illegal (11.5 or thereabouts) on the Pats side.

We still don't know jack sh*t, just a ton of conjecture and leaked reports from supposed 'insiders' which have on NUMEROUS occasions turned out to conflict with one another.

 

[festy1986]

Posted this in another thread but it definitely belongs in this one as well.

As said by Neil degrasse tyson in the cosmos documentary.

(1) Question authority. No idea is true just because someone says so, including me.

(2) Think for yourself. Question yourself. Don't believe anything just because you want to. Believing something doesn't make it so.

(3) Test ideas by the evidence gained from observation and experiment. If a favorite idea fails a well-designed test, it's wrong. Get over it.

(4) Follow the evidence wherever it leads. If you have no evidence, reserve judgment.

And perhaps the most important rule of all...

(5) Remember: you could be wrong. Even the best scientists have been wrong about some things. Newton, Einstein, and every other great scientist in history -- they all made mistakes. Of course they did. They were human.

Science is a way to keep from fooling ourselves, and each other.

 

[Wordsmyth]

Feisty has won the Interwebs!

 

[The Brandon Five]

Posted this in another thread but it definitely belongs in this one as well.

As said by Neil degrasse tyson in the cosmos documentary.

(1) Question authority. No idea is true just because someone says so, including me.

(2) Think for yourself. Question yourself. Don't believe anything just because you want to. Believing something doesn't make it so.

(3) Test ideas by the evidence gained from observation and experiment. If a favorite idea fails a well-designed test, it's wrong. Get over it.

(4) Follow the evidence wherever it leads. If you have no evidence, reserve judgment.

And perhaps the most important rule of all...

(5) Remember: you could be wrong. Even the best scientists have been wrong about some things. Newton, Einstein, and every other great scientist in history -- they all made mistakes. Of course they did. They were human.

Science is a way to keep from fooling ourselves, and each other.

Apparently he doesn't take his own advice.

 

[Bobsyouruncle]

I would agree if Belichick was a true scientist; he would have published his results and then other scientists would the be able to try to replicate his experiment.

But now we have to take his word for it. To me, it makes perfect sense. But to the haters, why would they believe him now ? I mean, Wilson (the company that produces the balls) is all over the internet today saying that what Belichick said didn't make any sense. He said / she said...

Without actual proof, it doesn't mean much to the outside world. But for Pats fans, it means that Belichick was thorough in his research, and we shouldn't fear the NFL investigation finding that the Pats tempered with the balls.

It's not like he's measuring the mass of an electron here. He said they rub the balls, and then went into temperature. Most anyone can do that experiment. I certainly would if I was going to go on TV and call someone a liar.

 

[Bobsyouruncle]

This thread should be a poll.

 

[Ring 6]

This thread should be a poll.

How so?
The point of the thread was that arguing opinion or theory to refute the results of an actual test holds no merit.
What would we be polling, what % of the media is smart enough to understand that?

 

[Bobsyouruncle]

How so?
The point of the thread was that arguing opinion or theory to refute the results of an actual test holds no merit.
What would we be polling, what % of the media is smart enough to understand that?

It was a joke, polls are opinions. Forgot the

Should science be an opinion?

A) Yes

B) No

 

[Ring 6]

It was a joke, polls are opinions. Forgot the

Should science be an opinion?

A) Yes

B) No

Gotcha

 

[shmessy]

Hey look guys, everyone's favorite internet scientist chimes in!

Neil deGrasse Tyson✔@neiltyson Follow
For the Patriots to blame a change in temperature for 15% lower-pressures, requires balls to be inflated with 125-degree air.


Oh and look, he can't science correctly, isn't the cute!

12.5 to 11.5 is 8%.

Dr. Tyson is using Mortensen's faulty report about all the balls being 10.5., not the updated of 10 of 11 (the non-Colts custody balls) being at 11.5.

Dr. Tyson, I'm sorry but I have to give you an F.

 

[Bobsyouruncle]

12.5 to 11.5 is 8%.

Dr. Tyson is using Mortensen's faulty report about all the balls being 10.5., not the updated of 10 of 11 (the non-Colts custody balls) being at 11.5.

Dr. Tyson, I'm sorry but I have to give you an F.

I think it's a mistake, and many have done the same is using guage pressure, not absolute.

2/27.2= 7%
2/12.5= 16%

With 1psi difference it's even less obviously.

But like Andy said, that's all theory. Applied to footballs in Foxborough an experiment trumps everything. Prep, wet leather, etc...

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

Dr. Tyson and Mr. Nye have posts on their respective facebook pages requesting that they comment about the ideal gas law calculations that I have done and that many others have confirmed. Nutshell: If you make all assumptions very conservatively, so as to err on the side of caution, a psi drop of at least 1.2 psi will, and in fact MUST, occur. This is based ONLY on the pressure/temp effect. There are undoubtedly other effects at play, but the math of the ideal gas law is crystal clear.