Reiss Takes His Shot at the 53

[spacecrime]

3 Te's Baker, Watson and A.Smith(Trade D.Thomas)

Do you think that Thomas playing FB with the first string and Smith playing STs give us a clue as to BB's current frame of mind? On might we see the reverse on Thursday. I will be at the game and will try to focus some on TEs, though that is a lot easier in my living room sometimes

I still think we can keep 4 TEs, but that does not mean we will, only that it is not a foregone conclusion one goes away. Someone asked who was more valuable to the team? BJGE or a 4th TE, and it was a good question, given the way RBs and TEs go down on this team.

 

[efin98]

Yes, but you have to wonder what kind of value Thomas can bring back, even from desperate teams.

As opposed to cutting him in the final round of cuts and getting nothing except cap savings?

If it's Thomas a pick, even a 6th or 7th rounder, is better than nothing if it clears up a roster spot at a position that you have a "surplus" at.

And if it's Smith who is traded, if they get at least a 5th rounder for him it gets them back their 4th rounder that they sent to Oakland...

 

[Deus Irae]

As opposed to cutting him in the final round of cuts and getting nothing except cap savings?

If it's Thomas a pick, even a 6th or 7th rounder, is better than nothing if it clears up a roster spot at a position that you have a "surplus" at.

Yes, if they can get a 6th or 7th. As I said, you've got to wonder what they can get.

 

[patfanken]

You had 9 offensive linemen, not 8, so your roster had 54 players. Who would you cut?

Actually its 8. The slash was to indicate either OCallahan OR Britt, not both....sorry

 

[mgteich]

Offensive line (8): Light, Mankins, Koppen, Neal, Kaczur, Vollmer, Ohrnberger, Hochstein, Britt/OCallahan

I still count 9
5 starters
3 primary backups: Vollmer, Ohrnberger, Hochstein
Britt or Callaghan

Actually its 8. The slash was to indicate either OCallahan OR Britt, not both....sorry

 

[patfanken]

Offensive line (8): Light, Mankins, Koppen, Neal, Kaczur, Vollmer, Ohrnberger, Hochstein, Britt/OCallahan

I still count 9
5 starters
3 primary backups: Vollmer, Ohrnberger, Hochstein
Britt or Callaghan

Yup....that's an OOOPS. I think you need all those, and boy Ventrone is gonna be pissed when he finds out that I can't count to 9

 

[fester]

You do if you don't have a true Lead Blocker, though I know that Morris has played FB before. Besides, which TE do you cut? Your 1st-rounder? Your 3rd-rounder? The guy for whom you just traded a 5th-rounder? Unless Bill receives real value (not some conditional 7th-rounder) in return, then I can def. see 4 TEs making the final cut. At the expense of which position, is the question.

At this point the round a guy was drafted in is irrelevant unless you are worried about saving face, and that is one thing that I think most people, myself included, believe BB places minimal value upon. The value equation is simple:

Is this guy's probable contribution this year (at current salary levels) and probable future contributions (at projected salary levels and a decent discount of performance) worth more or less than the other guy competing for a job. If yes, Player A gets the job.

If NO, go to the next pair-wise comparison until you run out of roster spots.

If still NO, trade Player A for a six pack of beer or better if possible.

If no trade is possible, release Player A and give Player A good references if deserved (the don't be a **** rule to build up a favorable shadow of the future for future vets who may sign with the Pats)

Your draft pick status argument is valid for a first year player (as it should be a decent proxy for the belief that the Pats believe future probable contributions is high) and is still valid in a weaker form for a second year player (as by now the uncertainty cone around their development has narrowed after a year in the program) but for 4,5 and 6 year vets, their performance is what it is, and their draft position is irrelevant.

Going back to the tight end argument, the Pats won't get the 5th rounder back from Tampa Bay if they keep or cut Baker --- that 5th rounder is now analytically irrelevant if we assume that BB et al want to put the best team on the field as possible even if it means admitting a mistake or two from the off-season.

 

[mgteich]

I think we agree on 50 players. The team would be fine with these 50. The question is how to use resources for the last three roster spots.

My choice for the final three is Walter, Lenon/Ninkovitch and McGowan.

OFFENSE (24)
QB Brady, O'Connell
RB Taylor, Maroney, Faulk, Morris
WR Moss, Welker, Galloway, Lewis, Aiken, Edelman
TE Baker, Watson, Thomas
OL Light, Mankins, Koppen, Neal, Kaczur, Ohrnberger, Vollmer, Hochstein, Britt/Callagahan

DEFENSE (23)
DL Seymour, Wilfork, Warren, Green, Brace, Wright, Brace
DE/OLB Burgess, Banta-Cain
OLB Thomas, Woods, Crable
ILB Mayo, Bruschi, Guyton (Thomas could move inside if necessary)
CB Bodden, Wilhite, Butler, Springs, Wheatley
S Meriweather, Sanders, Chung ( a corner can be the #4 safety)

SPECIALISTS (3)
K Gostkowski
P Hanson
LS Ingram/Hodel

PUP (2)
WR Tate
OT LeVoir

IR (1)
LB McKenzie

Yup....that's an OOOPS. I think you need all those, and boy Ventrone is gonna be pissed when he finds out that I can't count to 9

 

[patsfaninpa]

Do you think that Thomas playing FB with the first string and Smith playing STs give us a clue as to BB's current frame of mind? On might we see the reverse on Thursday. I will be at the game and will try to focus some on TEs, though that is a lot easier in my living room sometimes

I still think we can keep 4 TEs, but that does not mean we will, only that it is not a foregone conclusion one goes away. Someone asked who was more valuable to the team? BJGE or a 4th TE, and it was a good question, given the way RBs and TEs go down on this team.

This is Thomas 4th year. If we haven't found a role for him now, maybe it's just grasping at straws. He hasn't been on the field long enough to accurately assess his strengths/weaknesses. But, a lead blocker ain't one of them. The knock on him coming out of college was that he was a good receiver not necessarily a good blocker. I'd rather keep 9 ol and use Hochstein in that role. Hochstein looked very good in that role last year. If we keep D.Thomas over A.Smith, I think it will be because BB feels he has a better grasp of the offense and a better receiver. Not because he's a lead blocker.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Notable cuts: Hochstein, Alexander, T. Williams, Ventrone, Slater.

Keeps: BJGE, Walter, All 4 TE's.

Patriots blog - Reiss' Pieces - Boston.com

QB12

I thought Hochstein made it. Reiss had them cutting Yates...

The only question I had was Tedy. Having a Safety/hybrid, like Tank, to cover TEs/RBs would close up a hole over the middle that exists. Tedy hasn't even appeared at camp yet and he's 36, and has been obviously aging the last two seasons.

The unexpected Camp retirement ?