Reiss Picks his 53

[Zuma]

Re: Cobbs

Dillon and Faulk aren’t getting any younger. And I've also learned not to write in stone how productive a player can be depending on where they were drafted...or not is some cases. Bottom line is…Mills will block for the Pats and Evans will or try for someone else. Most times I agree with your opinion…however this time I respectfully do not.

 

[pats1]

Re: Cobbs

Dillon and Faulk aren’t getting any younger.

And that problem was addressed by Maroney, who seems to have fallen straight out of this conversation. But both Faulk and Dillon seem to have at least a few more good years left. If Dillon was 34 and ready to retire a la Jerome Bettis, the situation could, but probably wouldn't be different. They aren't coming off the roster.

And I've also learned not to write in stone how productive a player can be because of draft position. Bottom line is…Mills will block for the Pats and Evans will or try for someone else. Most times I agree with your opinion…however this time I respectfully do not.

I've also subscribed to the school of thought that draft position isn't the end-all, be-all to a player's success. But it's no secret that all UDFAs fight an extremely uphill battle, and if they make it their contributions come on special teams. If Cobbs could return kicks and possibly beat out Andrews, the story would be very different.

I agree that Evans' days are numbered. The only scenario I see him staying I already discussed above. His tenure would end upon Pass' return.

Also, I suppose you could view Maroney/Cobbs as the next Dillon/Faulk, and use the 2000 example of the Pats keeping 4 QBs for they could retain Brady, but it just doesn't work in my mind. Players like Cobbs will come again, be it through the draft, undrafted free agency, regular free agency, or trades. If he is stashed a la Brady in 2000, it would take Mo Lewis to come out of retirement and give Faulk or Maroney a hit for Cobbs to have a chance. If not, he'd be wasting away on the team until Faulk retires.

 

[Zuma]

Re: Cobbs

And that problem was addressed by Maroney, who seems to have fallen straight out of this conversation. But both Faulk and Dillon seem to have at least a few more good years left. If Dillon was 34 and ready to retire a la Jerome Bettis, the situation could, but probably wouldn't be different. They aren't coming off the roster.

And I might add that Cobbs might be a good replacement for the oft-injured fumble-itis candidate Kevin Faulk...eventually. We will see soon enough which way BB goes...

 

[pats1]

Re: Cobbs

And I might add that Cobbs might be a good replacement for the oft-injured fumble-itis candidate Kevin Faulk...eventually. We will see soon enough which way BB goes...

I guess everyone plays favorites.

I have Pass, you have Cobbs. I had problems with Gorin, you have problems with Faulk. (Although mentioning Gorin doesn't exactly help my case!)

But I have three objections:

1) It seems most of Faulk's fumbles come on his running plays. Against Denver, the only reason he was in there was because Dillon, well, sucked, and Faulk was the next guy in line. But now, the next guy in line is Maroney, and he'll be either that or the second guy for both the near and distant future.

2) You can't keep a player off a squad just because he's been injured a few times in the past. They can happen to any player at any time, and that's something you need to live with. Faulk brings value as a premier 3rd down back - he's the best guy in blitz pickup on the team, the best guy catching out of the backfield, and the go-to-guy on draws.

3) Faulk isn't going anywhere soon. I've seen many invalid "Faulk needs to get cut" premises get shot down time and time again here. He just turned 30, hasn't shown any signs of slowing down, so I don't think it's time to go searching for his potential replacement just yet. His replacement would either supplant Faulk on the roster or be stashed for a year at most awaiting the players' departure. Cobbs would most likely have to wait 2, maybe 3 years to replace Faulk, and there aren't enough spots on the 53 to keep a developmental player that long.

That's why there's the practice squad.

 

[Zuma]

Re: Cobbs

Mills will block and Evans wont. That is why Cobbs stays.

 

[pats1]

Re: Cobbs

Mills will block and Evans wont. That is why Cobbs stays.

Evans will actually see the field, Cobbs won't. That is why Evans stays.

(But then gets booted by Pass)

 

[flutie2phelan]

Re: Cobbs

....
I think Cobbs has done a good job and has made the most of his opportunity, but unfortunately he probably won't be reaping the rewards here in New England. With D/M/F and in a sense Pass, the RB position is locked and loaded. This offense lacks an every-down FB position, so the number of backs that need to be kept is reduced by that.

Dear Pats1,
Your persistence and determined re-statement of aspects of your case ...
actually have won me over.
I don't think that everything you say is right. But the cumulative power of your reasoning
wears down my resistance.
What you say actually accords with my own sense of how these things run.
I merely didn't want to give up on this blazing young talent, Patrick Cobbs.

But now i believe that BB will see it as you do ... try to and hope to sneak him onto the practice squad.
And, if not, que sera.

In any case, you are entiely right ... and no one has disputed ... that this is only about weeks 1-6, or 1-9. Pass owns that spot. Whoever keeps it warm until then is only waiting for battle damage to D/M/F (or others on the 53).

 

[pats1]

Re: Cobbs

Dear Pats1,
Your persistence and determined re-statement of aspects of your case ...
actually have won me over.
I don't think that everything you say is right. But the cumulative power of your reasoning
wears down my resistance.
What you say actually accords with my own sense of how these things run.
I merely didn't want to give up on this blazing young talent, Patrick Cobbs.

But now i believe that BB will see it as you do ... try to and hope to sneak him onto the practice squad.
And, if not, que sera.

In any case, you are entiely right ... and no one has disputed ... that this is only about weeks 1-6, or 1-9. Pass owns that spot. Whoever keeps it warm until then is only waiting for battle damage to D/M/F (or others on the 53).

Glad to hear that.

Can't keep them all, so you can see where versatility wins.

 

[jczxohn1]

Re: Cobbs

With Thomas and Smith on the PS, I'd like to see Klecko stick for Pass rush depth. He'll be on the field 4x more often than Hill. Hill looks more and more like Klemm every day to me.

 

[pats1]

Re: Cobbs

With Thomas and Smith on the PS, I'd like to see Klecko stick for Pass rush depth. He'll be on the field 4x more often than Hill. Hill looks more and more like Klemm every day to me.

You're right that he'll be on the field more than Hill, but not 4x.

The nickel/dime line for the Pats consists of either TBC or Vrabel at LDE, Colvin at RDE, and then Seymour and Green inside.

You can only have so many pass rushing DLs, too. Hill is more of a run stopper.

 

[jczxohn1]

Re: Cobbs

You're right that he'll be on the field more than Hill, but not 4x.

The nickel/dime line for the Pats consists of either TBC or Vrabel at LDE, Colvin at RDE, and then Seymour and Green inside.

You can only have so many pass rushing DLs, too. Hill is more of a run stopper.

One injury to Sey or Green, or any LB, and he's a regular in this scenario, assuming Mincey is on the PS. Hill is a run-stopper, usually slotted to b/u Warren or Sey. Thomas or Smith (played all across the Neb line) should be able to replace him. Thomas now, Smith next yr.

 

[captain stone]

Re: Cobbs

From what I've seen on tape watching Mills lead block, he's been horrid. Evans isn't any better. Pass is actually probably the best by default at lead blocking.

...and that's why I've been clamoring for a true, smashmouth, lead-blocking FB on this roster. Dillon had his best seasons with the bungles when he stood behind Lorenzo Neal. I would rather have the next Sam Gash than the current Patrick Pass OR Heath Evans, or even Patrick Cobbs. And like Gash and Mark Edwards, the FB can play STs, too.

Dillon
Faulk
Maroney
Mills
A Real FB

Simple as that.

 

[VJCPatriot]

I actually have a lot to disagree with here.

First I think Cobbs is a better keeper than Evans at RB. He has way more ability and upside.

Second how does this team keep 7 ILB and only 3 OLB? That's terrible depth on the outside unless he is badly misslotting several guys there.

Third if anyone should get cut it is Marquise Hill. This guy has shown absolutely nothing. Was he hurt or something is that why he hasn't made a peep the entire preseason or TC? I just don't see him making the team. It's his third year of showing nothing now isn't it?

Fourth carrying only 4 corners seems on the thin side to me. If Tebuckey's injury is serious I think he does go to IR.

Fifth who are our special teams returners KR and PR? He didn't even bother going into that and I think that position needs to be filled.

Overall not bad but there are a lot of points where I would disagree and go differently. You shave the roster differently here and there and you get a different team going into the season. I think cutting Cobbs in favor of a mediocre talent like Evans is a big mistake. And you really can't have enough RB depth. That we clearly saw last season.

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/reiss_pieces/

I can't find a single player I disagree about. Looking at it now at 53, rather then 75... I can't believe how deep we are.

Quarterback (2)
Tom Brady, Matt Cassel
COMMENT: Rookie Corey Bramlet goes to the practice squad, as the Patriots carry just two QBs for the first time in Bill Belichick’s tenure (2000-present).

Running back (4)
Corey Dillon, Laurence Maroney, Kevin Faulk, Heath Evans
COMMENT: Impressive rookie Patrick Cobbs is edged out by Evans, who was working with a few top special teams units in practice this week. Assuming he’s not courted elsewhere, Cobbs lands on the practice squad, while Patrick Pass starts the year on the physically unable to perform list.

Wide receiver (5)
Deion Branch, Reche Caldwell, Troy Brown, Chad Jackson, Bam Childress
COMMENT: John Stone and Kelvin Kight could also be in the mix for the spot given to Childress, as Childress has practice squad eligibility. Willie Andrews, who should make the team as a returner, could also contribute here.

Tight end (4)
Daniel Graham, Benjamin Watson, David Thomas, Garrett Mills
COMMENT: One of the deepest positions on the team, with Mills also responsible for fullback-like duties.

Offensive line (8)
Matt Light, Logan Mankins, Dan Koppen, Stephen Neal, Ryan O’Callaghan, Nick Kaczur, Russ Hochstein, Billy Yates
COMMENT: Tackles Wesley Britt and Randy Hand, and guard Dan Stevenson, likely wind up on the practice squad. This is a deep, smart, talented group. Competition has been intense for what looks like an eighth spot, and Yates gets the nod for his strong work vs. Arizona in Week 2.

Defensive line (7)
Richard Seymour, Vince Wilfork, Ty Warren, Jarvis Green, Johnathan Sullivan, Mike Wright, Marquise Hill
COMMENT: Like the offensive line, another deep, smart, talented group. Dan Klecko and Le Kevin Smith are the tough cuts, with Smith likely returning to the practice squad. Hill, a 2004 second-round pick, gets a generous spot because 6-foot, 300-pound athletic players are hard to develop and he’s still raw.

Inside linebacker (7)
Mike Vrabel, Junior Seau, Tedy Bruschi, Barry Gardner, Larry Izzo, Don Davis, Eric Alexander
COMMENT: Monty Beisel is the tough cut. Izzo, Davis and Alexander are core special teams contributors, with Davis also seeing time in sub packages.

Outside linebacker (3)
Rosevelt Colvin, Tully Banta-Cain, Pierre Woods
COMMENT: Depth is a concern here, although Mike Vrabel can always return to the outside. Woods, who played at Michigan, looks like this year’s Randall Gay/Mike Wright story -- a rookie free agent who emerges to make the roster. Chad Brown isn’t healthy enough to make the roster.

Cornerback (4)
Asante Samuel, Ellis Hobbs, Randall Gay, Chad Scott
COMMENT: Eric Warfield could still make the club, with his fate possibly tied to Tebucky Jones’ hamstring injury. But Chad Scott brings more value on special teams at this time, as he was on the first-unit kickoff coverage Saturday against the Redskins. Eugene Wilson adds depth here if needed.

Safety (6)
Eugene Wilson, Rodney Harrison, Artrell Hawkins, James Sanders, Willie Andrews, Tebucky Jones
COMMENT: Jones’ hamstring injury creates a little uncertainty here, and depending on its severity could open the door for someone else like Eric Warfield, Antwain Spann, Guss Scott (currently injured), Patrick Cobbs or a free-agent pickup who could carve out a niche on special teams.

Specialists (3)
Stephen Gotskowski (kicker), Josh Miller (punter), Lonie Paxton (snapper)

Final breakdown
Offense -- 23 players
Defense -- 27 players
Specialists -- 3 players

PROJECTED PRACTICE SQUAD: OT Wesley Britt, OT Randy Hand, OG/C Dan Stevenson, RB Patrick Cobbs, DL Le Kevin Smith, OLB Jeremy Mincey, ILB Corey Mays, DL Santonio Thomas

 

[mgteich]

I think Beisel replaces Gardner for Reiss and for me. Reiss didn't want to cut Beisel. Now keeping him is easy.

Is Jones healthy enough to have a roster spot?

Yates? I have Britt, an OT.

Hill? Kelcko? Hill?
-------------------------------

In the end,a couple of players are likely to come from other teams.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

Again, what the hell has Cobbs done to show he's "Faulk's next replacement."

Good God, some of this hype is starting to get crazy.

Why didn't they let him go three weeks ago? Because they didn't need to! There's a chance for every player right now to make the team, but Cobbs and the rest of the UDFAs have the slimmest chance!

I can't grasp this ludicrous idea of dumping Larry Izzo, who has been your special teams ace for years, in favor of a player WHO WILL BE INACTIVE EVERY WEEK AND WILL GET A TOTAL OF 5 CARRIES THE ENTIRE SEASON! Also, Cobbs hasn't even played a regular season game in the NFL! The only promise he's shown has been on a HANDFUL OF RUNS IN THE SECOND HALVES OF A FEW PRESEASON GAMES!

Every year there's an unknown guy who works real hard in camp and shows a little something. And then there are some fans that get on his bandwagon and it begins to geometrically grow from there. This is a prime example.
He hasn't shown anything to warrant talk of a replacement for Faulk. Does Faulk even need replacing anytime soon for that matter? Cobbs likely does not make the team but likely does make the practice squad. So unless he has shown either an eye catching level of running, which he has not, and/or has shown a real knack for ST's, don't know about that one either, I just don't see them even cutting Evans for him. Don't get me wrong, I like guys like Cobbs who give you everything. But puhlease! He really hasn't done anything to warrant more than a consideration for making the inactive list on week 1. Given some time and seasoning though, he might turn out to be a player.

 

[mgteich]

The deserving youngster from camp is Woods, not Cobbs.