Query on lack of QB pressure

[MrNathanDrake]

This goes out to the long time Pats' fans. I am not jumping on the team or criticizing. It's just a rather obvious observation, and then question to the rest of you.

I've been following the Patriots since day one. I never remember, EVER, a Patriots team applying less pressure on the QB.

It's rather pathetic in a sense. The QBs are back there, and there is sometimes ZERO pressure for long periods of time.

The reflex reaction is to say, "look at that darned lousy secondary", but to me it's glaringly the fault of the non-QB pressure. Henne and others this year drop back, look left, look right, shuffle a bit, break out a sandwich, listens to his IPOD, and then finds an open receiver.

My question, does anybody remember a year in the Pats history, when they applied less pressure? I know they are 13th out of 16th in sacks in the AFC, but I don't even mean just statistically. Just overall, I personally can't remember the opposing QBs sitting in the pockets for as long, play after play, as they are this year. What about the rest of you?

I agree. Our secondary is actually decent. As Butler and Chung progress, our Secondary could be VERY good....

but no matter how good a secondary is, when you apply ZERO pressure on the QB... they can not only stand in the pocket as long as they want, but mentally they arent even worried about being touched and have 100% confidence in getting the throw off..

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

I'm not sure i understand why people are saying the secondary sucks ...They do a much better job than last year of staying with the WR. If we had any kind of pressure on the QB, and could force a rushed throw, the secondary would be in a good position to get some picks. Even when we blitz, we rarely hit the QB. Blame the DC, the players, whomever. All i know is, we wont be beating anyone in the playoffs without some sort of passrush.

 

[Bostonian1962]

I thought it reached a low point when Chad Henne began grilling a steak during one play and assembled a Xmas toy for his kid.

The lack of pressure-- esp. up the middle-- put the secondary in a bad spot.

Let me just thank you very much for the hot coffee out the left notstril. That is hilarious!

 

[Nunchucks]

The loss of Seymour has really hurt this teams ability to get pressure on the QB. Simple as that

 

[satz]

Seymour was so undervalued and now we find out he by taking doubled made other players better giving them 1 on 1 matchup.

1)AD-5 sacks last year till he broke his hand playing next to seymour.
2)With AD and Seymour on one side 2 OL and 1 RB/TE on left side giving TY Warren 1 on 1 matchup with the RT or an extra rusher means vince got 1 on 1
3)Big tackles like Jake Long struggled against seymour and last year he beat him up and had to leave with some injury in the 2nd quater.
4)How many times have we need short yardage behind LT shut down or he penerated for Loss.
5)He was a terror for every gaurd as he is more atheletic than any gaurd.

Now this year
1)Green is being blocked 1 on 1 by a gaurd easily
2)Green and Wright in certain scheme are being blocked by a RB/TE leaving the OL to penerate for run blocking on short yardage.
3)With 1 on 1 Green ,Vince is doubled and tripled all game
4)Blocking Ty Warran is getting help as they do not need to watch green or wright that much on the left side.

To create pressure we need 2 guys that need double team with vince and seymour you created an issue .

We just do not have a 310 LB ,tall,atheletic , fast 3-4 END in our team now.
we might never find one like that either as they are usually top 10 pick.last year seymour clone was jackson went 3rd overall to kansas city.I really do not thing we will find in later rounds.

what we are realizing is you need players to win along with coaching .vrabel and seymour would have made a difference this year.


what i want to see is put woods/tully on the left [speed against RT/RG] and move AD to the right side with pyor/wright[Bigger bodies to plug left tackles runs].
play more 5-2 with mayo and guyton with seau in rotation on short yardage to give more weight.

 

[JustWinBrady]

the lack of pass rush is the biggest weakness of this team. it has been for a couple of years now and it has gotten this year. that is the biggest reason why the pats were one of the worst 3rd down teams on D last year and it is continuing. they are also one of the worse on redzone D. teams continue to convert 3rd downs after 3rd down. miami converted a 4th & 6 and henne had all day to throw to win the game. that is why teams continue to come back and win games at the end. the d can't close a game out.

the team has also done nothing in the draft relating to drafting players that can rush the passer. as every calls BB a genius on D, he has neglected this area. this huge hole on D is getting more exposed as the season goes on and will get worse as we play the better teams that have good Olines.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

The loss of Seymour has really hurt this teams ability to get pressure on the QB. Simple as that

yes and no. most seymour sacks came from pass plays on first and 2nd down. on 3rd down (where I believe the pats biggest problem lies), seymour was put in the middle and jarvis green was outside at seymour's spot.
what I would do right now is start pryor over green at RDE, and put green back to where he used to be as more of a passing down RDE specialist.

their down linemen on 3rd down should be pryor at LDE, wright at NT, and green at RDE

I still say the pats made the right move by moving seymour for that draft pick. doesn't look good at this moment, but it had to be done

 

[satz]

yes and no. most seymour sacks came from pass plays on first and 2nd down.

r u saying team are not throwing in 1st and 2nd down this year. Henne threw 53 times and you are saying it was all 3rd down ?

what BS

 

[tanked_as_usual]

r u saying team are not throwing in 1st and 2nd down this year. Henne threw 53 times and you are saying it was all 3rd down ?

what BS

what are you, an idiot?

the dolphins were 10-19 on 3rd down yesterday. so yeah, the problem was 3rd down....the fact that the dolphins had that many 3rd downs said the defense was doing OK on 1st and 2nd down. try to come up with a game where a team had more 3rd down situations.
between 3rd and 4th down, the dolphins were 12-22

so STFU unless you know something

 

[Bostonian1962]

the lack of pass rush is the biggest weakness of this team. it has been for a couple of years now and it has gotten this year. that is the biggest reason why the pats were one of the worst 3rd down teams on D last year and it is continuing. they are also one of the worse on redzone D. teams continue to convert 3rd downs after 3rd down. miami converted a 4th & 6 and henne had all day to throw to win the game. that is why teams continue to come back and win games at the end. the d can't close a game out.

the team has also done nothing in the draft relating to drafting players that can rush the passer. as every calls BB a genius on D, he has neglected this area. this huge hole on D is getting more exposed as the season goes on and will get worse as we play the better teams that have good Olines.

Agree with everything you say. On the BB neglecting "this area" in the draft, that is true. However, to a small degree I have to give him an out. Let me explain, I've been following the NFL Draft since Lincoln was President. It used to be that you could count on teams screwing up, and you could count on some serious talent slipping down to you. Of course, that still happens, but FAR less than ever before. It's become such a science, and also is discussed so openly, that everybody hears what the masses are saying about the talent.

I'm saying all this because over the last several years, it has sucked how many times the players (hybrid's/pass rushers/LB's) said to be on the Pats radar are gone before they draft.

The Patriots are one of the, if not they most successful franchises over the last decade. Those types of teams tend to pick at or near the end of rounds. Yet, they get graded down the road, on their draft the same as everybody else. You use to be able to count on the slipping players, but that's just not the case anymore.

I know this isn't 100% the case, but it is to a very large degree.

Having said all that, and on the other side of the coin, is the number of times that BB trades down, or out of the draft. At some point I wish he cash in his chips and bolster this roster. So, he's not totally off the hook. We need pass rushers, and he better get us some.

 

[satz]

what are you, an idiot?

the dolphins were 10-19 on 3rd down yesterday. so yeah, the problem was 3rd down....the fact that the dolphins had that many 3rd downs said the defense was doing OK on 1st and 2nd down. try to come up with a game where a team had more 3rd down situations.
between 3rd and 4th down, the dolphins were 12-22

so (Please be quiet - edited) unless you know something

I was talking about your comment on seymour sacks. You said that his sacks were mostly from 1st and 2nd down and the issue yesterday was only on 3rd downs.

I saw a team give 3-6 yds on first down making the 3rd more manageable.It was more manageable 3rd downs that led to the success for dolphins by . No sacks ,No stops for loss ,no pressure to misthrows nothing on the 1st or 2nd down leading to 3rd down success.

 

[bobcalkin]

I agree with most of what has been said in the thread. I believe that the biggest issue is that the opponents quarterback looks at the film and realizes coming into the game that no one is going to be at his feet. This allows him to be confident enough to square up his shoulders and step into an accurate throw. This why we see the likes of Chad Henne making perfect throw after perfect throw. Seymour's loss has been huge because there is no push up the middle anymore. How many times have we seen Burgess or Banta-Cain get pressure on the outside only to have the quarterback step up in the pocket and let them run by? The problem is that there is no real fix for this issue and unless the offense can somehow start scoring 30 points a game I think we are looking at quick playoff exit this year.