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Pretty confident this is not the 53

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by DocE, Sep 4, 2010.

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  1. DocE

    DocE Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    I was pretty disappointed by some of the decisions today, but looking at the roster some things certainly jump out.

    6(!) Inside Linebackers- Someone is going to go here, and my suspicion is it is White or Fletcher. My opinion on the White trade is that the Pats acquired him in case they couldn't get someone better through a waiver claim. It's clearly a special teams move and a veteran who's bounced around as much White is likely upgradeable.

    7 Olineman- I know that the Patriots have 9 currently on the roster of 54, but only 7 are possibilities to dress week 1. I am not sure they will make a roster move here, but wouldn't be surprised if another player is added.

    5 Running Backs- I hate this. BenJarvus Green Ellis is not an NFL running back, is not an elite special teamer, and just brings so little to the table. This team doesn't need 5 backs, and if injuries occur they can find a similar (or better) player than Green Ellis on the street.

    Veteran signings or waiver claims could happen at the following positions: DL, OLB, CB. I can't believe how weak the Patriots look at OLB right now and the lack of a veteran at CB might be addressed.
     
  2. 5 Rings for Brady!!

    5 Rings for Brady!! In the Starting Line-Up

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    I think they would love to get Fletcher on the practice squad somehow but are afraid of losing him. He doesn't help the team straight away so I could see them just stalling for time on him, maybe slipping him to the PS later on. The only thing that surprised me in the cuts is that they cut both Woods and Alexander. I figured Woods at least would make the team based on experience. They are Jags of course.
     
  3. Patfiend

    Patfiend Rookie

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    I haven't seen anyone mention that Jarvis Green was cut by the Bronco's today. A veteran and a leader on this young defense couldn't hurt.
     
  4. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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  5. Palm Beach Pats Fan

    Palm Beach Pats Fan In the Starting Line-Up

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    #12 Jersey

    after week 1, when his salary is not guaranteed
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2010
  6. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It was talked about a gazillion times today.. Both in it's own thread and in the Non-Pats Cuts thread.
     
  7. Metaphors

    Metaphors In the Starting Line-Up

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    I was actually pretty happy today. Looks to me like Belichick was tired of consistently mediocre performances and decided that if Aiken, Burgess, Alexander and Woods aren't improvin', then they best be movin'.

    I do like your points below, though I have a little different take...

    White is certainly expendable but I find his acquisition interesting. Though he has been a ST guy his whole career, the Bradley injury got him some snaps as a nickel LB. By all accounts, he didn't embarrass himself. I don't think he starts in the nickel here, but he could be a spark for a gassed defense if an opposing QB is living in the middle of the field.

    Fletcher is a developmental guy and remember that 8 players don't dress on Sundays. I don't see why he doesn't stick unless/until injuries don't allow it.

    Agree. The interesting factor here is what is happening behind the scenes with Kaczur and Mankins. Both are likely to suit up for the Pats at some point this year.

    Can't see BJGE as being active barring an injury...but I'm with you that RBs with similar skills are everywhere. And it isn't like a RB needs a lot of learning time before taking backup snaps. I expect that BJGE heads to the shadow roster in the hours and days ahead.

    You can find CB help now and I would love to see an upgrade to Wilhite. As for DL and OLB, the Pats don't need just anyone at these positions. They need specific skills, measurables and smarts for a 3-4 DE and 3-4 OLB. They may be out there, but I'm not seeing them.

    I share your angst though. For the Pats to get to where they want to be (division winner, deep playoff run), 2 of Warren/Brace/Deaderick better take a big step up this year and 2 of Cunningham/Ninkovich/Murrell better be able to get into the opposing backfield with some regularity. I don't see help on the horizon so I hope these guys are eating their Wheaties.
     
  8. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    White isn't an ILB. He's a STer who gets listed as a LB much the way IZZO was. Fletcher is very similar to him. I don't see the big commotion here unless you really have an issue with them being called LBers..

    The Pats only ever dress 7 O-line for games so why would this be a surprise? There are some out there who may or may not be upgrades over Wendell, Connolly, and LaVoir. But they also don't know the system...

    I agree here, but BB does reward effort and BJGE has shown that. Personally, I would have cut him because I agree with you and I feel that he doesn't bring anything that the Pats don't already have..



    D-line, O-line, and OLB are the places I think the Pats might look at. I don't believe they'll bring in a vet CB. I honestly believe they are going to let the kids grow and let Corwin Brown coach them up..

    BTW, Bodden might be on the IR, but he's not dead. He'll be allowed to be around the team. Whether or not he is, is another story..
     
  9. MustaphaM0nd

    MustaphaM0nd On the Game Day Roster

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    I really have some questions.

    Why did BB choose Matt Slater over Sam Aiken, who is both a better receiver and more valuable special teamer? Does BB honestly see upside in Slater worth investing in?

    Why was a conditional pick deemed necessary to acquire Tracy White, who doesn't seem to have any qualities that Woods and Alexander did not possess?

     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2010
  10. Patspsycho

    Patspsycho Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    It was not necessarily that BB picked Slater over Aiken. For all we know, BB could have picked Chung over Aiken, because we know that Aiken's best value is at ST, but if we substitute him with Chung, that frees up another roster spot for someone else, such as an additional ILB.

    A conditional pick is actually a win-win situation for us. If Tracy White doesn't work out for us, Philly does not get our pick. It is probably conditional on him being active for X amounts of game.
     
  11. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    That isn't quite his point: he's asking, "Instead of trading a pick for White, why not just hang on to Woods or Alexander?"

    This is akin to the questions last year of why the Patriots traded away a pick for Alex Smith when they already had a bunch of TEs, and then traded away Thomas only to trade for Michael Mitchell and then cut him a few weeks later.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2010
  12. DocE

    DocE Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Couple additional thoughts in reply to responses in this thread-

    On Olb's: I am very aware that it takes a specific skill set to play OLB in the Patriots system, however this makes the recent moves/non-moves at this position even stranger in my mind. The only OLB on the roster who fits the Patriots mold at OLB from a H/W/S perspective is Cunningham. They have Banta-Cain, Ninkovich, and Murrell who are all shorter that a prototypical Pats OLB, but none are exactly burners either. I am not sure there was anything that can be done to strengthen this position now, but I think BB and co. have to be looking. I think we may see more of Guyton or Spikes playiing outside.

    On Slater: I think Slater makes the team due to McCourty's expanded role on defense. I thnk the coaches felt Devin would be an impact guy on special teams this year, but with Bodden out, he probably will see his role reduced on special teams because he will play every snap on D. I think Slater may have been kept to be a gunner on punts along with Arrington. While both Slater and Aiken's primary role is special teams, they have different roles witin the special teams (Chung looks to be playing Aiken's role on punts for example).
     
  13. MustaphaM0nd

    MustaphaM0nd On the Game Day Roster

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    Exactly. We're replacing ST production and lack of defensive upside with... lack of defensive upside?

    With the whole Aiken vs. Slater thing, what is Slater being kept to do? I mean, Aiken can play WR after a rash of injuries, can hold down the kick and punt coverage squads, and lays down mean blocks from the WR position. Slater... returns kicks? I just feel as if Aiken has shown a lot more value. He must have been a captain for a reason.

    EDIT: just saw DocE's post... the bit about Slater as a gunner vs. Aiken somewhere else makes sense.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2010
  14. Patspsycho

    Patspsycho Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    That's what I'm talking about. You seem to think those two are interrelated; that BB was weighing the two of them. They are two very different players.
     
  15. Patspsycho

    Patspsycho Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Read my answer again. I never said White was a substitute for Woods or Alexander. I just said that since he came via a conditional pick, we have a win-win scenario with him in that we only lose a pick if he gives us any value.
     
  16. Metaphors

    Metaphors In the Starting Line-Up

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    I think there are two dimensions to this:

    1) Trending - Woods and Alexander (skills and production) are trending in the wrong direction. While they are solid on ST, I think it is a stretch to call them leaders or aces. As far as the regular defense, neither of them can be trusted when called upon. I can't speak for White's contributions on ST in Philly (assume Belichick can) but White did get significant snaps as a nickel LB last year...and defending a lead in the 4th quarter should be a focus for this offseason.

    2) Comfort - I think the Pats had a good number of players last year that settled into a role and lost their fire. I think Belichick has cleaned them out entering this year. So instead of having players with reliably mediocre performance, he has a number of new parts that will hopefully have the intensity, desire and smarts (with help from superior coaching) to raise their game. White, Murrell, G.Warren and Page may not work out, but I think Belichick is risking it because he was unwilling to settle for the status quo.
     
  17. sg14

    sg14 On the Game Day Roster

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    Metaphors,

    This is the second time I have read this thought of White being brought in to help with defending the Dallas Clarks of the NFL. Looks like Page and White are being brought in because of the McGowan loss and that the middle of the field has been open all preseason.

    They must think White is better than Alexander, also.

    As far as Woods goes, when comparing his athelic abitly to Murrel's , there is no comparison, the writting was on the field.

     
  18. Metaphors

    Metaphors In the Starting Line-Up

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    That is likely overselling the situation. While I'm hopeful that White will be on the nickel LB depth chart somewhere, I'm also hopeful that he will have to be used sparingly. My thinking is that he could get some snaps in the 4th quarter if the defense is gassed and needs a change-of-pace. But generally it would be great if he got most of his opportunities defending the litany of kickoffs the offense will be generating.

    It is probably not a coincidence that Page and White are middle of the field guys. That was a weak spot last year and didn't seem improved in the preseason.
     
  19. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think that both Alexander and Woods have been on the bubble their entire career here, and the roster has come together in a way that they made the team. This year it did not. After those decisions were already made BB found out that White was being cut in Philly, and felt he could be a good special teams contributor here, so instead of having someone else claim him off waivers BB threw a conditional pick at it.
    I think that this is obviously a transitional year for the defense. We will likley have first time starters in Brace, Cunningham/Murrell/Ninko, Spikes, Butler, McCourty and Chung. That is more than half of the D.
    BB is running the D. The defensive coaching will be a lot of hands on teaching. BBs approach is not going to be a Herm Edwards dont hurt their feelings approach but a STFU and do your job the way I tell you to approach. Some verterans fit in with that and some don't, and the only shred of evidence any of us have from our living rooms are BBs roster decisions.
    It is also very interesting that a very high number of the guys at the end of the roster are young too.
    BB took down the pictures of the past, and has chosen youth whereever possible. Complacency and entitlement is what brought the end to every dynasty in NFL history, or at least contributed. BB IMO is aware of that.
     
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