Predict the Patriots cuts tomorrow

[cubedoggy]

On the other hand our buddies in Indiana have hit a little speed bump on the road to the 2006 league year. Apparently Polian's creative bookeeping this week didn't pass muster with a special master today and his deal with Wayne (and perhaps those with Brock and/or Brackett) has suddenly put the Colts (who were projected as even last week) over the cap by $9.4M (based on Claytons $92M cap - so possibly $7M over). There is also talk that the roster bonuses due Peyton ($9M) and Marvin ($10M) possibly cannot be converted to signing bonuses and prorated (in whole or in part) because of the original construction of those contracts and all the existing backloading (30% rule violation perhaps).

 

[PatsWorldChamps]

I would think we would want to free up as much cash as possible so as to be able to sign our own free agents, others that we may want as wel as our rookies. Do the math guys.....

rookies? what rookies? we wont need any money to sign them for months

 

[DaBruinz]

Clayton has updated his cap stuff. The Salary cap, as it stands, it being reported at 94.5 million. However, the Pats adjusted gross is supposedly only 90.4 million. The 2nd lowest in the league. The Dolphins are the lowest at like 80 million.

However, what I am wondering is whether or not Clayton got confused. I wouldn't think that the Patriots had 4.1 million in NLTBE incentives from last year that were earned. They didn't have that much in NLTBE incentives earned in the years they went to the SB. I have a feeling that the 90.4 million is based from the 92.5 million first reported and that the Pats are actually at 92.4 Million for the adjusted cap.

I'd really be interested in finding out what the REALITY is there.

 

[patsfan55]

we def dont need to make any cuts rigth away
but i too have been thinking about it

i agree with most in here that poole and brown have to go

i wonder about klecko, i know he wouldnt save us much, but as much as i like him, he hasnt done anything here

we could see willie cut, and then re-signed, just like troy brown last year, hopefully for the sake of my blood pressure they skip that step and just restructure

 

[fgssand]

My initial assumption in the original post, was that the CBA would not be redone.
My understanding on Willie was, if not cut today, his entire salary with bonus has to count on the cap if he is on the team after Friday. Wouldn't that also be the case for Poole and the others?

Also to sign Adam V., won't we need to make cuts to free up enough space to sign him?

 

[Miguel]

I don't know whether Starks is officially gone per the league.

Starks is no longer listed on the NFLPA site.

 

[Miguel]

My initial assumption in the original post, was that the CBA would not be redone.
My understanding on Willie was, if not cut today, his entire salary with bonus has to count on the cap if he is on the team after Friday. Wouldn't that also be the case for Poole and the others?

yes but that does not mean that the Willie will get his $3.5 million salary and roster bonus.

Also to sign Adam V., won't we need to make cuts to free up enough space to sign him?

If I am reading Clayton's numbers correctly, yes.

 

[mgteich]

If we cut Willie, he'll be playing for Cleveland this year.

we def dont need to make any cuts rigth away
but i too have been thinking about it

i agree with most in here that poole and brown have to go

i wonder about klecko, i know he wouldnt save us much, but as much as i like him, he hasnt done anything here

we could see willie cut, and then re-signed, just like troy brown last year, hopefully for the sake of my blood pressure they skip that step and just restructure

 

[fgssand]

If we cut Willie, he'll be playing for Cleveland this year.

You think we should pay him 8MM this year then?? I think we cut him today and redo his deal right away - the 8MM was supposed to be for a dummy year all along, wasn't it??

 

[DaBruinz]

My initial assumption in the original post, was that the CBA would not be redone.
My understanding on Willie was, if not cut today, his entire salary with bonus has to count on the cap if he is on the team after Friday. Wouldn't that also be the case for Poole and the others?

Also to sign Adam V., won't we need to make cuts to free up enough space to sign him?

OK. The problem is that you are making assumptions. Willie's roster bonus isn't paid out until March 15th. While Willie's roster bonus applies to the cap right now, it can be easily made to disappear with a simple extension. And the Pats have until the 15th to do so. And, by doing so, they can save over 4 million and keep their best OLB.

The roster bonus is kind of like the LTBE Bonuses. They count, but its imaginary until paid.

 

[DaBruinz]

You think we should pay him 8MM this year then?? I think we cut him today and redo his deal right away - the 8MM was supposed to be for a dummy year all along, wasn't it??

See, the problem with you is that you don't understand that Willie isn't being paid 8.3 million. Hes being paid 7 million and has 1.3 million in signing bonus amortization.

Are you really John Tomase in disguise?

 

[fgssand]

OK. The problem is that you are making assumptions. Willie's roster bonus isn't paid out until March 15th. While Willie's roster bonus applies to the cap right now, it can be easily made to disappear with a simple extension. And the Pats have until the 15th to do so. And, by doing so, they can save over 4 million and keep their best OLB.

The roster bonus is kind of like the LTBE Bonuses. They count, but its imaginary until paid.

OK - but, if we snooze, we lose our own free agents and others we may be looking to sign.

 

[DaBruinz]

OK - but, if we snooze, we lose our own free agents and others we may be looking to sign.

FGSSAND - If you haven't figured out that they are gone by now, then there really isn't any hope for you.

David Givens agent has said that Givens wants to be paid like Hines Ward. Not gonna happen with the Patriots.

Adam Vinatieri could have gotten a new agent any time after Cornich got suspended. He didn't and sat on his arse until 2-3 weeks ago. He fully planned on hitting free agency.

Stephen Neal - Don't know if the Pats have had any negotiations with him. But he will be a hot commodity since Hutchinson was tagged.

Tom Ashworth - His versatility will make him a hot commodity. Also, the potential of starting at RT somewhere since he is behind Kaczur and Gorin right now.

Matt Chatham - Was bad on special teams last year with too many penalties. Didn't do much to earn the confidence of playing at ILB. Not sure how much demand there will be for him.

Artrell Hawkins - Will probably be brought back for the league minimum with a small signing bonus. No one was knocking on his door until the Pats came calling last year.

Michael Stone - Will probably be brought back for the league minimum. Got dropped out of camp by the Rams. Was sitting at home when the Pats came calling.

Chad Scott - may or may not be brought back. Not sure that there will be much demand for him.

Tim Dwight - may or may not be brought back.

Andre Davis - No one came calling after the Pats let him go.

Troy Brown - Started talking retirement towards the end of the season.

Christian Fauria - decent #3 TE but the Pats could get someone with more upside in the draft. Especially with Graham potentially a UFA next season.

Heath Evans - was inactive after Dillon and Faulk came back. Was also injured. Not likely to be brought back

Doug Flutie - Doug is leaning towards retirement, though they could bring him back.

Ross Tucker - reserve O-lineman. Not a big loss if he goes.

 

[fgssand]

See, the problem with you is that you don't understand that Willie isn't being paid 8.3 million. Hes being paid 7 million and has 1.3 million in signing bonus amortization.

Are you really John Tomase in disguise?

LOL very good

 

[fgssand]

FGSSAND - If you haven't figured out that they are gone by now, then there really isn't any hope for you.

David Givens agent has said that Givens wants to be paid like Hines Ward. Not gonna happen with the Patriots.

Adam Vinatieri could have gotten a new agent any time after Cornich got suspended. He didn't and sat on his arse until 2-3 weeks ago. He fully planned on hitting free agency.

Stephen Neal - Don't know if the Pats have had any negotiations with him. But he will be a hot commodity since Hutchinson was tagged.

Tom Ashworth - His versatility will make him a hot commodity. Also, the potential of starting at RT somewhere since he is behind Kaczur and Gorin right now.

Matt Chatham - Was bad on special teams last year with too many penalties. Didn't do much to earn the confidence of playing at ILB. Not sure how much demand there will be for him.

Artrell Hawkins - Will probably be brought back for the league minimum with a small signing bonus. No one was knocking on his door until the Pats came calling last year.

Michael Stone - Will probably be brought back for the league minimum. Got dropped out of camp by the Rams. Was sitting at home when the Pats came calling.

Chad Scott - may or may not be brought back. Not sure that there will be much demand for him.

Tim Dwight - may or may not be brought back.

Andre Davis - No one came calling after the Pats let him go.

Troy Brown - Started talking retirement towards the end of the season.

Christian Fauria - decent #3 TE but the Pats could get someone with more upside in the draft. Especially with Graham potentially a UFA next season.

Heath Evans - was inactive after Dillon and Faulk came back. Was also injured. Not likely to be brought back

Doug Flutie - Doug is leaning towards retirement, though they could bring him back.

Ross Tucker - reserve O-lineman. Not a big loss if he goes.

Not so fast, regarding the players that are our top FA's - teams that may have thought they would have money to grab these guys wont anymore, teams that do have the cash now have a whole new group of FA's to spend their cash on.
If we want AV, DGiv, Neal and others, we can sign them. I trust BB/SP's judgement as to their worth to the Patriots.

 

[flutie2phelan]

....
The roster bonus is kind of like the LTBE Bonuses. They count, but its imaginary until paid.

This is a small point ... mebbe even just a typo ... but these two terms are especially slippery and we have to take pains to keep them straight.

In the above you mean ... NOT Likely To Be Earned, NLTBE ... doesn't count until it is earned.

 

[flutie2phelan]

According to John Clayton we are $1.5M under a projected $92M cap. ....

92.0 - 1.5 = 90.5
This is said to be where the Pats currently stand with their 2006 contracts.

Striking and highly suggestive ... that 90.5 million also happens to be the number that Miguel passes on (without endorsing) as someone else's assertion of what the Patriots' adjusted cap number for 2006 is. (See his nearby thread on that subject.)

Has there been a confusion here? Could Clayton's original statement be (approximately) correct ... and that number erroneously used in the second context?

If not ... if both statements, independently, are accurate ... and they simply happen to both be 90.5 million ... then the Pats today would seem to be precisely at par ... before any cuts, revisions, extensions, or new signings. That isn't so bad.

EDIT: after posting, i could go back and check Miguel's. He said:
From John Clayton - The Patriots have the 2nd lowest adjusted cap number,
According to Clayton the Patriots had $4.1 million of carry over incentives hitting their cap so the Patriots adjusted cap number is $90.413 million.

WOW, I was way off. I had figured that the adjustment would be $500,000, not to $4.1 million.

So ... it was Clayton both times - i.e., an assistant could easily have misconstrued something the second time.
The second number is 90.4, not 90.5 - which is less striking and suggestive.
Finally, Miguel modestly assumes that HE was way off base. But I am willing to bet that he was right all along ... and Clayton wrong.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Why keep Poole????

If we are 1.5M or 20.5m under the cap, why keep Poole??? Given his injury history and his age, I can't see it. Let's just cut him and be done with it already.

McGinest - DO NOT CUT WILLIE. Guarantee the money add a year or two and maybe even throw in a dummy year and keep him off the market.

Beisel - In my opinion he earned a second chance with his play in the final quarter of the season.

 

[Sean Pa Patriot]

Sorry Willie is gone,

Ty Poole, Beisel and Chad Brown would be candidates.

Its not a good situation...

 

[DaBruinz]

This is a small point ... mebbe even just a typo ... but these two terms are especially slippery and we have to take pains to keep them straight.

In the above you mean ... NOT Likely To Be Earned, NLTBE ... doesn't count until it is earned.

Flutie 2Phelan - I actually did mean Likely to be earned. Here is why.

The LTBE is imaginary until its earned. Its counts against the cap, but not paid to the player until the player has reached whatever incentive.

In the case of Willie's roster bonus, it still counts agaisnt the cap, but it won't actually be paid until March 15th. So, until that time, its imaginary.

Hope that helps.