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Pre-Game Thread- Bears @ Pats


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I mean people seem to give no credit to the piss-poor teams we beat the last 2 weeks. That's why Zappe looks so great. If he were to have played MIA or BAL the first 3 weeks, he'd look the same as Mac. Zappe's not better than Mac. Period.
Zappe stepped into a great situation - where the OL/Run game was getting on track, Matty P simplified the offense, the Defenses were terrible, and our Defense was able to contain pitiful opponents offenses. That equated to 2 easy wins.
The coaches aren't stupid. They know Jets & Colts are going to be tougher, not to mention the Vikings, Bills, Bengals.
But one thing that will help Mac - having the re-set on offense. Which helped everyone dial in what to focus on.
 
So 2 TDs 300 yards, a W - and let's add 0 interceptions just for fun and look at the usual control case (to be fair, this is totally comparing across eras.)

Tom Brady
2001, nope. 300+ yards in tuck game, no TD

2002... Nope.
9-29-02, SD, 353 yds, 2 TD, but also 2 int. & lost
11-10-02, 328, 3TD, 1 int.

2003
11/3/03 350 Yds, 3TD, 1 int.
11/23/03 368 Yds, 2 TD, 2 int.
(He had a 12/27/03 game vs. Buffalo with 4 TDs and 0 ints. ... but only 204 yards)

I'm tired, but point is, TFB went at least 3 years without once hitting 2 TDs, 300 yards, 0 int. This is cherry-picking, it's across decades, and every other sin, but it's still pretty good stuff for the kids. Not enough to measure them for the HOF jackets, but enough to be really damn smug about the future possibilities.
Ryan F#CKING Leaf had a couple of 300 yd games his rookie year, so did Jmarcus Russell. These are 2 of the worst QB's in NFL history. There are a NUMBER of things you could use to praise Bailey Zappe's performances over the last 3 games, But his one 301 yd game shouldn't be a hallmark of any thread. Would his accomplishment been any less impressive if he had thrown for 275 yds?
 


There is the potential for both Agholor and Bourne to be out. That will almost certainly require them to "elevate" Humphrey from the PS.
If Mac is inactive, that will require them to elevate Gilbert.
That puts a damper on them being able to cover for the potential of not having Uche and Jennings. Both of whom are questionable. That would be a huge hit to our Pass Rush..


It's going to be interesting to see how Webb fits in..
 
To my eye, the offense Zappe ran during his stint was MARKEDLY more open and complex than the offense Josh put together for Mac most if not all of last year. I'll note as well that when Mac was given a more "full-featured" offense THIS year, the results have been mediocre in most respects, and dismal with respect to turnovers. The record over that span was a losing one.

Frankly I see no empirical reason whatever to start Mac over Zappe, this week or any other, until Zappe falters significantly. The only "reason" is that "Mac has been the starter" or "he's a first-rounder," neither of which rationalizations takes notice of performance and so of "doing what is best for the team" Others are worried that Mac might get all weepy or something, or that they might.

However, here we are, and I'll be rooting for him - sincerely - but hoping too that he is on the very short leash he has earned by his performance so far this year.
Again T, EVERY single quality fans have evoked to praise Bailey, are the EXACT terms they praised Mac with last season. So I continually find that using data from a 2 game sample against 2 very BAD defenses, and a plethora of TO's and 4th down stops; is just weak analysis.

I also find that continuing a Zappe/Jones discussion in the Bears/Pats thread is somewhat inappropriate given there is a specific thread designated for this debate. I include myself in this indictment.

For example it SHOULD be worrying to Pats fans that the bears are coming into this game with NO ONE on the injury report, while we have TWELVE players listed as questionable. Now I know that Bill has often taken the path that it is better to add dinged players to the injury report than not, if only to look for a strategic advantage. HOWEVER, 12 guys are 12 guys. If only a 3rd of the guys actually don't play that will be 4 guys on that list won't play. And to my mind a significant advantage to the Bears.
 
There is the potential for both Agholor and Bourne to be out. That will almost certainly require them to "elevate" Humphrey from the PS.
If Mac is inactive, that will require them to elevate Gilbert.
That puts a damper on them being able to cover for the potential of not having Uche and Jennings. Both of whom are questionable. That would be a huge hit to our Pass Rush..


It's going to be interesting to see how Webb fits in..

I hope they elevate Humphrey and / or Nixon.
Yeah I think Gilbert will be elevated as well. I know they won't do it but if Zappe starts...then having Mac active as backup could work if Zappe crashes.
I would be surprised if Webb plays. I think it would be just ST if he does.
 
Ryan F#CKING Leaf had a couple of 300 yd games his rookie year, so did Jmarcus Russell. These are 2 of the worst QB's in NFL history. There are a NUMBER of things you could use to praise Bailey Zappe's performances over the last 3 games, But his one 301 yd game shouldn't be a hallmark of any thread. Would his accomplishment been any less impressive if he had thrown for 275 yds?
In Ryan Leaf's rookie year he had 2 touchdowns on the year, and no, they weren't in the same game, coach. He had one game of 281 yards. None of 300. 1 TD was his ceiling.

Far be it from me to be in the unenviable position of defending either of them. But that said how many 300 yd, 2 TD, no int., wins did Ryan Leaf have evah? Spoiler: rhymes with "hero." (edited - changed "300 game" to "300 yd.")

So before using a ridiculous counterargument that should be true, do the bare minimum of homework on your assertion. Hey @Ian, want to tag this "content post"? Jesus.

Reread the post you quoted. About half of it is caveats about how it's got a number of issues in terms of being a particularly valid indicator of future performance, including the across-eras mea culpa applicable to the 3-year Brady comp.

You should know my thoughts on him. He performs at the level of beating bad pro teams. Not every college stud does. He's outperformed Jones this year, based on the TD/INT metric alone. I am not convinced that he is the better choice now and forever, just that he's a comfortable replacement at least until Mac is back. I think having two apparent hits in the draft lottery puts the good kind of pressure on Mac, and that it's possible--though given our FO's habits to date, perhaps not likely--to get good draft capital back for whoever we ditch, assuming the brass want to go that route.

We can quote stats all day and all night but in the end, I believe you see the same thing I do -- and it's the same thing I saw watching Mac last year, although not, to date, this year. That is, he belongs. The game's not too big for him at this level. To date, the sky appears to be the limit for him. I think we'll see that side of Mac again soon -- but it's sure good to have 2 shots at that lasting "franchise guy."

I approach it with joy, myself. We went nearly 2 decades really knowing this answer, no doubt. Some folks still wanted a fight, and toward the end, we sort of had one during the Jimmy G period.

But this is a legit, future-is-unwritten moment. It's exhilarating in a way, as exciting as it's been to always be a threat to win it all. Now we're always an outside threat to get it together... but it's truly back to square 1. And what a distinct pleasure it's been that "square 1" has amounted to 1 game below .500 in our worst season in the post-Brady years.

But mainly, dude, if you want to take shots, say true things.
 
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Again T, EVERY single quality fans have evoked to praise Bailey, are the EXACT terms they praised Mac with last season. So I continually find that using data from a 2 game sample against 2 very BAD defenses, and a plethora of TO's and 4th down stops; is just weak analysis.

I also find that continuing a Zappe/Jones discussion in the Bears/Pats thread is somewhat inappropriate given there is a specific thread designated for this debate. I include myself in this indictment.

For example it SHOULD be worrying to Pats fans that the bears are coming into this game with NO ONE on the injury report, while we have TWELVE players listed as questionable. Now I know that Bill has often taken the path that it is better to add dinged players to the injury report than not, if only to look for a strategic advantage. HOWEVER, 12 guys are 12 guys. If only a 3rd of the guys actually don't play that will be 4 guys on that list won't play. And to my mind a significant advantage to the Bears.
Agree about not writing the bears off. Disagree on Mac, I had concerns about his pocket presence going back to last year.
 
Army's one of the teams Notre Dame beats up on to pad their record every year, right?
They haven’t played in six years.

One team will graduate all of their players from one of the best academic colleges in the country and those players will go on to serve the country. The other team is Notre Dame.
 
Honestly assuming Mac plays the last thing I want to happen is for him to look like crap but still win because then everything about everything turns into a bigger more annoying mess. If he plays really well and they win then problem solved for at least a while.
 
From all accounts, it looks like Mac is playing. Hopefully he has a great game and then the talk about a potential QB controversy can stop ! He doesn't need any distractions.
 
I know this is going to come off as belittling you but Patriots fans have completely unrealistic expectations.

We're not going to have a Drew Brees quality - level QB in New England in the next 2 decades.
I dunno but, … to me it Doesnt belittle me for you to say about yourself that you are a cup half empty kind of guy.

maybe future events will prove I’m overly optimistic, but I just like our chances w Jones and zappe And bb moving the chess pieces around them
 
We're starting that roll!!!! Can we keep it up? This is a game we can and should win on Monday night. Who starts at Qb, do we get some of our injured guys back like Jonathan Jones, Uche and Agholor, and do some of the guys that were banged up yesterday come back like Barmore and Bourne?

We've been getting great contributions from our rookies and young players; can they keep it up?

We're at 500 now looking to go to 4-3 in a league with a lot of parity and not a lot of great teams.

Does anyone on the Bears scare you? Does our old friend N'Keal Harry play this week?

Let's discuss!!!!!!!
Me? Well, I'd like to see
1666564971835.png
 
Ryan F#CKING Leaf had a couple of 300 yd games his rookie year, so did Jmarcus Russell. These are 2 of the worst QB's in NFL history. There are a NUMBER of things you could use to praise Bailey Zappe's performances over the last 3 games, But his one 301 yd game shouldn't be a hallmark of any thread. Would his accomplishment been any less impressive if he had thrown for 275 yds?
JRuss never had a 300yd game in his career. Leaf had 1 his 2nd year (3TDs 1Int in a loss).

Yes, the accomplishment would've been ever so slightly less impressive if he had thrown for 275yds, but that's just imho. That's the nature of subjectivity combined with arbitrary round number accomplishments. His rating for his first start was 100.0. If he threw for a few yards less (not sure how the calculations work), then people wouldn't be plastering the whole "There is only one rookie QB in the Super Bowl era to win and post a 100+ Passer Rating in each of his first two starts." Some people couldn't care less, but some are fairly wowed by that. I thought it was pretty cool.
 
I dunno but, … to me it Doesnt belittle me for you to say about yourself that you are a cup half empty kind of guy.

maybe future events will prove I’m overly optimistic, but I just like our chances w Jones and zappe And bb moving the chess pieces around them
Drew Brees is a Hall of Famer and #2 all time in TDs and yards.

I'm a glass half empty guy because I don't think we'll find a top 5 QB in stats in NFL history?

Really?
 
Drew Brees is a Hall of Famer and #2 all time in TDs and yards.

I'm a glass half empty guy because I don't think we'll find a top 5 QB in stats in NFL history?

Really?
No negativity allowed!!
 
Honestly assuming Mac plays the last thing I want to happen is for him to look like crap but still win because then everything about everything turns into a bigger more annoying mess. If he plays really well and they win then problem solved for at least a while.
I'd be fine with it if he looks crappy in the first half but better in the second half because it'd probably just be rust. But if it is shaky all game long then yeah I have concerns.
 
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