Picking at the scab..

[letekro]

That's not the point. I don't think anyone is saying the refs cost us the game. No, it was the collapse of the defense and the fact we didn't make the plays when we had chances to close out the game. What I think people are getting at, is the refs certainly didn't help our cause. Actually they accelerated our downfall.

Maybe that's what they meant, but we should be accustomed to the fact that in the playoffs, whether its unspoken league policy, or whether the refs are just influenced by the fans, the home team will get the benefit of the doubt in most close calls. See our wins over Oakland and Indy (04), our loss against Denver last year, and Indy's loss against Pittsburgh last year, which in my opinion featured the most egregious calls of all the above mentioned, yet the Steelers did what we could not - overcome them.

 

[MTaylorJ1]

Without that phantom call it's almost certainly 24-3 or 28-3 at halftime. Game over.

Exactly. This is why I laugh when people said the Patriots didn't make enough plays to win the game. They almost certainly did. Make no mistake, the O.P.I. was a killer. They were heading for 28-3 like a runaway train. And there would have been a tremendous difference between the defense being on the field as much as they were at the end.

Now just think about the statement "made enough plays" if all 3 of those are called correctly. Or at least with some consistency. Its not unreasonable to think the Patriots win by 14-17 points.

 

[MTaylorJ1]

Maybe that's what they meant, but we should be accustomed to the fact that in the playoffs, whether its unspoken league policy, or whether the refs are just influenced by the fans, the home team will get the benefit of the doubt in most close calls. See our wins over Oakland and Indy (04), our loss against Denver last year, and Indy's loss against Pittsburgh last year, which in my opinion featured the most egregious calls of all the above mentioned, yet the Steelers did what we could not - overcome them.

Which call happened in the Oakland game? The Indy game? Personally I don't think the defensive holding plays as much into it as the Colts OFFENSIVE holding does.

Pittsburgh had the one INT call. They also managed to fumble at their own 1 yard line with the chance to put it away.

Even at Denver last year, we made 5 turnovers. We did little to help our own cause.

This was the worst. We were making plays.

 

[Seymour93]

Which call happened in the Oakland game? The Indy game? Personally I don't think the defensive holding plays as much into it as the Colts OFFENSIVE holding does.

Pittsburgh had the one INT call. They also managed to fumble at their own 1 yard line with the chance to put it away.

Even at Denver last year, we made 5 turnovers. We did little to help our own cause.

This was the worst. We were making plays.

But we didn't make enough. Caldwell's drops. The 3rd and 5 on defense close to our endzone with 1:20 left. We also had a few 3rd downs on offense that if we converted we could've put the game away. Combine all that with poor refereeing = loss.

 

[upstater1]

For a Patriots' WR, yes there is.

That's so frustrating to watch. The NFL will get those videos scrapped from YouTube any second now. :violent:

The NFL has no right to take that off of YouTube. The guy is using a brief clip to criticize a ref's call. That constitutes fair use. You can use a brief clip of any telecast to do that, and in this case, he's not using a film/cd, but a clip of his own TV set.

 

[upstater1]

Which other was against a WR ?

When I said 3 I was thinking of :

- this call against Troy
- the PI against Hobbs in the end zone
- the non PI against Indy against Caldwell in the end zone.

You're also missing the PI that wasn't called on Bethea who tackled Graham long before the ball got there on 3rd down late in the game.

 

[MTaylorJ1]

But we didn't make enough. Caldwell's drops. The 3rd and 5 on defense close to our endzone with 1:20 left. We also had a few 3rd downs on offense that if we converted we could've put the game away. Combine all that with poor refereeing = loss.

If the game was officiated consistently, NEITHER of Caldwell's drops come into play.

 

[upstater1]

What game were you guys watching?

We couldn't stop them in the second half. Period. We didn't deserve to win.

Well, with a call or two going our way, we could've stopped them enough to win.

Think about it, in the second half, we had a drive end on 3rd down when Graham was tackled by Bethea. The Colts were still losing at the time, and it was late in the game. That was a clear PI. If the ref had called it correctly, the Patriots keep the ball.

 

[BelichickFan]

Well, with a call or two going our way, we could've stopped them enough to win.

Think about it, in the second half, we had a drive end on 3rd down when Graham was tackled by Bethea. The Colts were still losing at the time, and it was late in the game. That was a clear PI. If the ref had called it correctly, the Patriots keep the ball.

All we needed was the phanton PI on Troy to not be called. Even 24-3 (not 28-3) vs. 21-6 makes all the difference. It's 3 TDs vs. 2 TD (and a 2 pointer). The Colts don't go into the lockeroom thinking "TD on the first drive and we're only a TD down", they go in down 3 TD and knowing their fate. That ONE bad call ends it. Oh well.

 

[letekro]

Well, with a call or two going our way, we could've stopped them enough to win.

Think about it, in the second half, we had a drive end on 3rd down when Graham was tackled by Bethea. The Colts were still losing at the time, and it was late in the game. That was a clear PI. If the ref had called it correctly, the Patriots keep the ball.

PI is always a judgment call. The officials don't have the benefit of seeing the slow-motion replays from six different angles like you do. Additionally, they aren't watching the play with the built-in bias fans have.

Yours is a loser's lament. In any close game, the losing team can make the assertion, If X hadn't happened, we would have won. Here's another one: If we could have either:

1. Picked up one first down on our second to last drive;
2. Covered the middle of the field so as to prevent a 50+ yd reception to Dallas Clark and a 30+yd reception to the legendary Brian Fletcher;
3. Correctly huddled up on our second to last drive;

we could have done enough to win.

 

[BelichickFan]

PI is always a judgment call. The officials don't have the benefit of seeing the slow-motion replays from six different angles like you do. Additionally, they aren't watching the play with the built-in bias fans have.

That doesn't mean their judgement can't be WRONG - as it was several times all in the Colts' favor. Benefit of slow motion ? Whatever, these are all star officials and they f*cked up bad - almost all at our expense.

 

[BelichickFan]

we could have done enough to win.

Sure we could have done enough to beat the Colts. But we had to beat the Colts and multiple (not just one) really bad calls. We could have done that and almost did. But we shouldn't have had to.

 

[MTaylorJ1]

That doesn't mean their judgement can't be WRONG - as it was several times all in the Colts' favor. Benefit of slow motion ? Whatever, these are all star officials and they f*cked up bad - almost all at our expense.

Which also makes you wonder why they don't keep entire crews intact throughout the playoffs? Wouldn't that make sense? Wouldn't it lend some consistency to playoff officiating?

The problem wasn't that the officials got P.I. calls wrong, its that they didn't call them consistently.

There was very little contact on Hobbs' play and he wasn't turned around. There was a LOT of contact on Hayden's play, and he wasn't turned around. Even at full speed, worst case, they should have called both of these the same.

 

[upstater1]

PI is always a judgment call. The officials don't have the benefit of seeing the slow-motion replays from six different angles like you do. Additionally, they aren't watching the play with the built-in bias fans have.

Yours is a loser's lament. In any close game, the losing team can make the assertion, If X hadn't happened, we would have won. Here's another one: If we could have either:

1. Picked up one first down on our second to last drive;
2. Covered the middle of the field so as to prevent a 50+ yd reception to Dallas Clark and a 30+yd reception to the legendary Brian Fletcher;
3. Correctly huddled up on our second to last drive;

we could have done enough to win.

I saw both penalties to Caldwell and Graham with my own two eyes in fast motion on a TV set when the players looked about 1 inch tall. Multiple Colts fans have come on here and said they definitely thought it was pass interference, some were at the game and saw it, expecting a flag. Those calls were egregiously bad. You can't defeed them with this slow motion argument.

Then you say they should have converted a first down on their second to last drive. This is the very drive I'm talking about!!! How is it the Patriots' fault that they didn't convert a drive when a DB is tackling our open wide receiver before the ball gets there? Have you seen many wide receivers catch that ball in that situation? I never have.

 

[AdamJT13]

When I see this,he is clearly well within the 5 yd zone.

There is no "5-yard zone" for offensive players.

What Brown did is considered "blocking downfield by an offensive player prior to the ball being touched," which is offensive pass interference.

 

[Seymour93]

There is no "5-yard zone" for offensive players.

What Brown did is considered "blocking downfield by an offensive player prior to the ball being touched," which is offensive pass interference.

Even if the defensive player initiates the contact like how it's clearly shown on the slow motion replay?

 

[upstater1]

Even if the defensive player initiates the contact like how it's clearly shown on the slow motion replay?

It was a bad call period. There are pick plays made all the time that never get called, never mind the fact that Brown was impeded a little.

After all the bad calls that went against the Patriots, the only one mentioned by both Belichick and Brady as being highly questionable was this one.

 

[Oswlek]

Which also makes you wonder why they don't keep entire crews intact throughout the playoffs? Wouldn't that make sense? Wouldn't it lend some consistency to playoff officiating?

The problem wasn't that the officials got P.I. calls wrong, its that they didn't call them consistently.

There was very little contact on Hobbs' play and he wasn't turned around. There was a LOT of contact on Hayden's play, and he wasn't turned around. Even at full speed, worst case, they should have called both of these the same.

Bingo. I didn't have that much of a problem with Hobbs' call live. My problem is with the inconsistency of it all.

This is why I don't have much sympathy for the Colt fans when they complain about 2003. Indy was holding on the OL just as much or more as NE was in the secondary. Also, Indy had an extra three full seconds to get two plays off. The refs called nothing, and you benefited from it just as much.

However, when all the calls go against one team and they do so in contrasting forms, then we have a problem. And for those Colt lurkers, just look at my post after the Minny game to see that I discussed it when NE was favored as well. Officiating cannot determine the outcome of a game and as long as they call it the same way the players can adjust.

 

[Michigan Dave]

All we needed was the phanton PI on Troy to not be called. Even 24-3 (not 28-3) vs. 21-6 makes all the difference. It's 3 TDs vs. 2 TD (and a 2 pointer). The Colts don't go into the lockeroom thinking "TD on the first drive and we're only a TD down", they go in down 3 TD and knowing their fate. That ONE bad call ends it. Oh well.

Dead on. The end of the half was crushing. I remember after that first down, the Colts fans were contemplating leaving at the half. Then, we get backed up, punt, they kick the FG, and then at half, everyone around me had hope. "TD after the half, and we're coming back!!" That was it. After they scored the TD, the fans were right back in it, and the momentum was turned. I know hindsight is 20/20, but at the coin toss, I was angry when we took the ball. Always defer. It turned out to be killer. If we get the ball to start the half and even just get a few first downs, it changes the complexion of the game.

But that PI on Troy was just killer. Man, did we have them there. 24 or more likely 28-3 and it's lights out.

 

[AdamJT13]

Even if the defensive player initiates the contact like how it's clearly shown on the slow motion replay?

It doesn't matter. If Brown blocks him, it's offensive pass interference.