Pats "talking to" Ty Law?

[jczxohn1]

First of all, Bruschi's stroke was a total freak-out. IMO, Biesel was signed because he was the only one available at the time. Anyone who read his record at KC could see he was never going to be more than a back-up. **** Vermiel crying crocodile tears over losing a guy who, throw out the Carolina game when they ran at him all night, averaged less than one tackle per game, was a real piece of work. BB new it was weak and grabbed C. Brown when he became available to be a pass-rusher. TJ's retirement before training camp insured no one else would be made available until after the trading deadline. Who was available that BB could have picked up to replace either of these two? Nobody...

Vrable and later, AD took TJ's place but both were playing out of their natural position. Finally, Mayo was drafted and the slot was filled. The real problem with finding LB's is not that BB doesn't think some guys can't play the position, it's that you have 4 starter slots and at least 2 decent b/u's to pay, IMO. You have to catch lightening in a bottle in at least 2 of those slots, with a hungry vet or 2nd day draftee. You can't afford to pay everyone what they're worth, or some other section has to suffer. You want to know why Laurinitis, Sentem, or Maualuga aren't here, look no further than last yrs' rookie class, wo the judgements are still out on. People say they aren't proven; that's why they're still here. That's why Peppers ain't coming, that's why Taylor might for a yr. We need to see if one of them is a player. We can't afford to toss them for another 1st rounder.

 

[mgteich]

I will put it as plainly as I can. When we won three Superbowls, we could afford to have the best set of linebackers in the league. We had Vrabel, McGinist, Bruschi, Johnson and Phifer and we had just signed Colvin for big bucks. We paid them all well, and we were still willing to bring in Colvin for big money. We could even afford to bring in Thomas in 2007 to replace McGinist. So, the issue is not whether Belichick is willing to pay for linebackers. The question is why between 2003 and 2007, we didn't develop inside linebackers.
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Yes, we ask who was available in the week before 2005 training camp. I think the right question is who was there in the entire preseason and draft to take Bruschi's spot, Phifer's and to prepare for the possibility that the injured Johnson would not be at 100%. I even ask who we acquired in 2003 and 2004 to develop for those three spots. Everyone can continue to believe that no one was available and that the best out there was Beisel (April), Claridge (draft), and Chad Brown (May).
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Let's look forward. How prepared so you think we are for an injury at ILB THIS SEASON?
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First of all, Bruschi's stroke was a total freak-out. IMO, Biesel was signed because he was the only one available at the time. Anyone who read his record at KC could see he was never going to be more than a back-up. **** Vermiel crying crocodile tears over losing a guy who, throw out the Carolina game when they ran at him all night, averaged less than one tackle per game, was a real piece of work. BB new it was weak and grabbed C. Brown when he became available to be a pass-rusher. TJ's retirement before training camp insured no one else would be made available until after the trading deadline. Who was available that BB could have picked up to replace either of these two? Nobody...

Vrable and later, AD took TJ's place but both were playing out of their natural position. Finally, Mayo was drafted and the slot was filled. The real problem with finding LB's is not that BB doesn't think some guys can't play the position, it's that you have 4 starter slots and at least 2 decent b/u's to pay, IMO. You have to catch lightening in a bottle in at least 2 of those slots, with a hungry vet or 2nd day draftee. You can't afford to pay everyone what they're worth, or some other section has to suffer. You want to know why Laurinitis, Sentem, or Maualuga aren't here, look no further than last yrs' rookie class, wo the judgements are still out on. People say they aren't proven; that's why they're still here. That's why Peppers ain't coming, that's why Taylor might for a yr. We need to see if one of them is a player. We can't afford to toss them for another 1st rounder.

 

[Deus Irae]

I have three very simple questions
1) Are we stronger than last year at OLB and by a little or a lot?
2) Are we stronger than last year at ILB and by a little or a lot?
3) Are you satsfied with our situation at LB, or is this a position of concern for you? Are you or less satisfied than you were on February 1st?

For me, I have no concerns (other than Brady's health) about any other position but linebacker on the team, none.

And yes, I have posted for months that Belichick might be satisfied with our OLB and ILB situations. And most here could not believe that this could possibly be the case.

1.) No, I wouldn't expect them to be stronger if the season started today. However, if Taylor comes aboard, that answer changes to "Yes".

2.) This all depends upon the development of Mayo/Guyton and the rate of decline of Bruschi. It is, at the moment, unanswerable.

3.) Again, this depends upon Taylor. With Taylor, the 4 across will be

Thomas
Mayo
Bruschi/Guyton
Taylor

I could be satisfied with that, as long as the Bruschi/Guyton tandem play well enough.

 

[jczxohn1]

I will put it as plainly as I can. When we won three Superbowls, we could afford to have the best set of linebackers in the league. We had Vrabel, McGinist, Bruschi, Johnson and Phifer and we had just signed Colvin for big bucks. We paid them all well, and we were still willing to bring in Colvin for big money. We could even afford to bring in Thomas in 2007 to replace McGinist. So, the issue is not whether Belichick is willing to pay for linebackers. The question is why between 2003 and 2007, we didn't develop inside linebackers.
===================================================
Yes, we ask who was available in the week before 2005 training camp. I think the right question is who was there in the entire preseason and draft to take Bruschi's spot, Phifer's and to prepare for the possibility that the injured Johnson would not be at 100%. I even ask who we acquired in 2003 and 2004 to develop for those three spots. Everyone can continue to believe that no one was available and that the best out there was Beisel (April), Claridge (draft), and Chad Brown (May).
=====================================================

Let's look forward. How prepared so you think we are for an injury at ILB THIS SEASON?
======================================================

As far as pay for Vrabel and McGinest, they were both released when their cap # hit around $4m. TJ, IIRC, was making around $2m when he retired, and Bruschi is known as the Mike Bourque of football. No agent, low-ball contract, that is waved in the face of every other LB when negoiation time rolls around. Colvin came on board with a $6m contract, the highest ever paid to any LB, and after his injury, was serviceable, but never really performed to the level expected. You are right, IMO, we did have the best set of LB's in the league, but they were by no means the best paid.

Thomas was brought in to replace someone, but it wasn't McGinest. It was Biesel, Brown and Colvin. Vrabel replaced McGinest.
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You ask who was available to replace Bruschi, but I don't hear you answering the question. IIRC, there were da***d few free agents and a poor draft. Previously, you spoke of Napoleon Harris. Now, there's a guy who's lit up the league. Claridge was drafted in the 5th rd , IIRC, but quickly went the way of "Big Cat" from OSU. While you speak of TJ's concussion syndrome, I'm not so sure it was so readily apparent at the time as the issue it has become today. IMO, his retirement was as much out of left field as Bruschi's stroke. But maybe I'm just insensitive. I do know it has taken quite a while to replace a guy who can call the signals and play the run like TJ did. He's had his detractors, but IMO, he was key to our success for the bulk of his career.
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Well, we've already had one injury in the rookie 3rder. If Mayo, Bruschi or Guyton go down, we'll be stressed, but adjustments can be made. We have a # of safeties that can play in the box; if Mayo is OK, we could easily adapt to a 4-3, (which I expect we will more often, regardless), Assuming one of the 2nd yr guys can pass rush, AD could go back inside.

Frankly, I don't see the 3-4 being the "all that" this yr. Too many teams are doing it, and BB loves to go against the flow.

 

[Pats726]

Would we really have been better off if Johnson had not announced and failed the medical test? Or perhaps, we all would have been better off if he participated in 6 weeks of camp and then was injured.

No, Johnson's announcement did not make it MUCH worse, except for we uninformed fans who did not know what was going on, or for team decision-makers with their heads fimly lodged in the sand (being nice). Johnson was injured and would never be the same again. Johnson stopped the nonsense and made it official.

So....your opinion is that Johnson's retirement situation DID NOT make the teams situation worse with linebackers...in other words having NONE of their 3 quality inside backers returning was NOT that much worse than having one back...so 0% returning is really not that much worse than 33%.....don't at all get the logic...and I do not agree with that.
There have been many many over the years that have said TJ was a JAG...not good etc etc..SO maybe to them...he meant nothing..so losing him was NO big deal.
OR...maybe you think the Patriots KNEW he was going to retire and did not prepare for that. I do have a different opinion as I think Johnson was a quality player in what he did..a top noych run stuffer and NOT just a JAG. I also believe that they had NO iea about his retirement until that happened that day before camp started. If you believe otherwise, that is fine...but the front office's history of addressing needs in the offseason I think trumps that. When there has been a need, they have always gone after many solutions NOT just Plan A..but B and C, I THINK history has shown that. That is why they went after Brown and Beisel..to replace Brsuchi...not Johnson. THAT caught them way way off guard. Also thrown into this mix is Phifer, who had surgery and was cut. Did they think he might come back if needed?? WHat they knew is not known..so it is really hard to judge what they thought would happen and how TJ's retirement really hurt.

The team was basking in the glory of the Super Bowl wins. The FO thought that they were unvinceable and could plug roster spots with street veterans and special teamers. Was it really reasonable for the team to plan to go into the season with Beisel, Chad Brown and an injured Ted Johnson as our ILB's?

I don't know what the FO thought...and neither do you..THAT is all speculation. Was Phifer coming back? That is something that they may have been thinking about...who knows??

Even after all that, we still didn't bring in ILB help. We did bring in Thomas to play out of position for a year in a defense he was learning. And we counted on a returning Bruschi. Surely that was enough for 2007 and the future????? But that was indeed good enough for 2007. And we had a 16-0 season, one play away. Surely, the issues at ILB were not worth addressing earlier! And anyone who suggested that an additional top linebacker, or even a mid-level one might have made a difference, is laughed at. Surely, the problem was purely that of the secondary. Or surely, if the offense had executed one more scoring drive (or een time consuming drive), the SB would have been ours. Or, fire the medical team; flu shots would have made the difference.

Did they not draft Claridge that year?? 6-3 250?? Seems that MAYBE they thought he might be an ILB?? They also brought in UDFA Freddie Roach in 06...and vet Seau. NO it wasn't a solution..BUT to say they did not bring in anyone...not true. I agree they needed to do more...BUT....

Or maybe, just maybe, we were tempting fate, as we had for several years, by not addressing our need at ILB.?

You mean NOT addressing it like you wanted to...as I said I think they should have done more..but sometimes things do not work out.

 

[N.Eman]

doubt he'll be signed or talks go in any way further than just 'talks'. If he really wanted to rejoin or help out his former team, he would've done it last year and not whine about getting a ton of money. Plus if it were me , i'd rather spend cap money on a fresher, younger player at least with some veteran experience.

 

[RoughingthePasser]

I have three very simple questions
1) Are we stronger than last year at OLB and by a little or a lot?
2) Are we stronger than last year at ILB and by a little or a lot?
3) Are you satsfied with our situation at LB, or is this a position of concern for you? Are you or less satisfied than you were on February 1st?

For me, I have no concerns (other than Brady's health) about any other position but linebacker on the team, none.

And yes, I have posted for months that Belichick might be satisfied with our OLB and ILB situations. And most here could not believe that this could possibly be the case.

1) We are stronger.

Adalius Thomas was injured last year. We have him back.

Rookie, Shawn Crable was injured early last year. Crable looked good in his first pre-season and has a knack for getting into the backfield quickly. In college, Shawn played for Michigan and was 2nd in the nation for tackles for losses. He is also a reknowned hard hitter. He has been said to lack pass coverage skills but with all the new defensive backfield acquisitions-it's not an issue. He's been compared to Shaun Phillips and LaVar Arrington.

Tully Banta Cain is back from a year in playing in the San Fransisco 49ers system. TBC was originally drafted a Patriot a few yrs. back(for those that don't recognize)

Pierre Woods is a special teamer and outside linebacker. Woods is currently the first candidate to take over Mike Vrables position. Pierre has the ability to play right and left outside linebacker.

Vince Redd was drafted in the 2008 class as the tallest and fastest at his position. In college he had the highest broken up pass statistic. We could see some time with Vincent.

Let's not forget the pass rush from our line either....or maybe a blitz from Merriweather or Tank Williams.

2) We are stronger.

We have some new faces on the defense squad that could pitch in to the ILB position but as it stands:

Jerod Mayo Defensive Rookie of the Year
Bruschi
Gary Guyton (who is a fast dude!) Maybe some pass rush?
Others will pitch in too obviously- I dunno who yet.

3) Gotta look at the whole FA avail. and Draft.
We did great again
The whole picture looks good.
You can't just look at the LB corps as a separate entity (position by position)really. We have some hybrid athletes out there that will be tested soon to see what they can do bustin moves.
Like many other fans, I'm hoping we get another guy (vet) that could help.
That's why I'm checking this board periodically because I know it will be on here first

 

[JoeShmoe]

With Mckenzie down id be surprised if we dont at least look at another ILB in FA

For OLB there's always P****s :banned::singing:

 

[mgteich]

You have it right. We have Mayo the stud and Guyton joining him on passing downs.

For our other starter, we have Bruschi. We are counting on him big time.
And for our backup, you dunno. Neither do I.
Bruschi needs to play well all season and we need to have no injuries.

As you said we should look at the whole picture. With the 34th pick, we picked a safety.

1) We are stronger.

We have some new faces on the defense squad that could pitch in to the ILB position but as it stands:

Jerod Mayo Defensive Rookie of the Year
Bruschi
Gary Guyton (who is a fast dude!) Maybe some pass rush?
Others will pitch in too obviously- I dunno who yet.