Pats Next to Last in AFC in Pass D

[Brady'sButtBoy]

With all the hoopla about us being able to pound the ball on Indy's porous run D, we've heard nothing about a complimentary defect on our team. Only Houston is worse in pass D yards allowed in the high powered AFC, 8 trashy NFC teams are behind the Pats in the NFL overall.

In this case the yards don't mean much for the Pats - they are 3rd in fewest points allowed in NFL. Meanwhile, that porous run D is a problem for the Dolts - they are 22nd in points allowed 22.9/gm to the Pat's 12.4/gm in the entire league. Of course, the Dolts ripped a once 'great' defense in Denver to little pieces so numbers might mean nothing...

 

[BelichickFan]

Depends where you get your rankings from. Our YPA against is bad, largely because of some bad plays early in the season. Our passing rating against is 7th best in the NFL and that encompasses a variety of stats.

 

[BelichickFan]

Looks like you're looking at yards per game - that's a poor indicator. The YPA is a little more disconcerting but, as I said, the passer rating encompasses more stats than any one stat you could rank teams by.

 

[RayClay]

With all the hoopla about us being able to pound the ball on Indy's porous run D, we've heard nothing about a complimentary defect on our team. Only Houston is worse in pass D yards allowed in the high powered AFC, 8 trashy NFC teams are behind the Pats in the NFL overall.

In this case the yards don't mean much for the Pats - they are 3rd in fewest points allowed in NFL. Meanwhile, that porous run D is a problem for the Dolts - they are 22nd in points allowed 22.9/gm to the Pat's 12.4/gm in the entire league. Of course, the Dolts ripped a once 'great' defense in Denver to little pieces so numbers might mean nothing...

Yds allowed passing means zero. The Pats and Denver both try to keep good passing teams in front of them.

Denvers problem was they didn't hit the receivers after the catch and they didn't mix it up and try to jump a route once they limited them to short/mid-range passes.

Are you agreeing with T.J. Houseyadaddy, that we didn't cover them when we did?

I'm sure we gave up plenty of yards to Cincinnatti, just not those final 10 or so that count.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

Yards per game is a semi useless stat (unless the YPG is very, very high). Look at the best defenses according to points allowed per game. You'll see many of these teams toward the middle of the pack in passing yards per game. However, you'll see most if not all at the top in rushing yards allowed and yards per rush allowed. For a defense, the top of the importance pyramid is points allowed. The next level of the pyramid is rushing defense, red zone defense, plays of 20 yards or more given up (or whatever big play stat you like). Add in turnovers, QB pressures/hurry ups/sacks to that. Below that is things like third down conversions allowed and YAC. Passing yards allowed per game lives at the bottom of the pyramid. This is not to say none of them lack any importance. I have no idea where the Patriots rank in all these categories. They are stopping the run well, they are keeping teams from scoring TD's in the red zone well and they seem to be now limiting the big plays. If they can pressure the QB consistently, I'll take those 4 stats without a care in the world to rest of 'em!

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

Teams ended up throwing because they couldn't run the ball.

And Minnesota maintained their ecellent run defense rainking because the Pats didn't even try to run.

Stat are skewed.

The only stat that matters is points scored and scored against.

 

[Patjew]

Isn't this also indicative of the Pats being ahead for most of their games, thus the opponents going through the air to catch up?

 

[363839]

Teams ended up throwing because they couldn't run the ball.

And Minnesota maintained their ecellent run defense rainking because the Pats didn't even try to run.

Stat are skewed.

The only stat that matters is points scored and scored against.

Pats still ended u with 85 yards that day, with a plus 4 ypc. So that should have put a crimp in their previously 70 ypg average.

 

[ATippett56]

Defensive Passer Rating is more revealing:

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Article.php?Page=999&Category=2

 

[JoeSixPat]

Isn't this also indicative of the Pats being ahead for most of their games, thus the opponents going through the air to catch up?

Yes - and that includes that Jets game when we let them get back into the game late - a major lesson learned by the D.

As many pointed out YPA doesn't always tell an accurate story - especially if your team takes a "bend but don't break" attidude.

Along with the W - points scored against is probably the best indicator - and we're doing great in that category - exceptional if you discount the Jets game

 

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

Yes - and that includes that Jets game when we let them get back into the game late - a major lesson learned by the D.

As many pointed out YPA doesn't always tell an accurate story - especially if your team takes a "bend but don't break" attidude.

Along with the W - points scored against is probably the best indicator - and we're doing great in that category - exceptional if you discount the Jets game

I need to see how we play this weekend before I annoint our defense. We have injuries in the secondary and an inconsistent pass rush. We haven't played a single top offense, and that includes the Bungles.

We can talk all day about how the Pats bend and don't break, but I won't know how good we are until we go against the top offense in the league.

Then I'll be able to make an informed decision on whether we are following in the footsteps of 2003-04.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

that stat is the biggest waste of a thread. the pats are at 218.7 and cincy is right in the middle of the nfl at 210. that's only 5 spots separating them.

gimme a break.....oakland is #1. how much credenece does this argument hold?

you really need to examine total defense where the pats are 11th.

you can look at 3rd down conversions where the pats are in the middle of the pack in 3rd down defense, which is not too good, but backs up the bend but don't break

but i'd go one further and red zone defense is the most important. The pats are extremely good in red zone defense and red zone offense which translates to points per game most of the time unless you gain or give up the big play obviously.

just ask the kicker how good the red zone offense is

 

[fgssand]

Seems to me the most important stat is Touchdowns allowed.

New England passing "D" is # 1 there - end of debate.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/AFC/DEF-PASSING/2006/regular?sort_col_1=8

 

[Haterproof]

that stat is the biggest waste of a thread. the pats are at 218.7 and cincy is right in the middle of the nfl at 210. that's only 5 spots separating them.

gimme a break.....oakland is #1. how much credenece does this argument hold?

you really need to examine total defense where the pats are 11th.

you can look at 3rd down conversions where the pats are in the middle of the pack in 3rd down defense, which is not too good, but backs up the bend but don't break

but i'd go one further and red zone defense is the most important. The pats are extremely good in red zone defense and red zone offense which translates to points per game most of the time unless you gain or give up the big play obviously.

just ask the kicker how good the red zone offense is

Preach on!

 

[DarrylS]

Most stats do not reflect this defense well, the CHFF one seems to be better.. I think a better way of doing this would be the same criteria that is used to define how well a qb does, but using it as a d stat... i.e. using the passer rating system as an indicator of how well our D does.. for example, our defensive passer rating right now is 71, which is pretty good. We have only given up 4 touchdowns, with 8 ints... 140 of 233 for 1531 yards.

I think our d stats are pretty good. Compare to Indy's defensive passer rating which comes in at 89.2.. even though they have given up 1173 total yards, they have given up a lot of run yards.. so just looking at how many yards a team gives up begs the issue.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

Preach on!

thankyou!!!

 

[FloridaPatsFan]

that stat is the biggest waste of a thread. the pats are at 218.7 and cincy is right in the middle of the nfl at 210. that's only 5 spots separating them.

gimme a break.....oakland is #1. how much credenece does this argument hold?

you really need to examine total defense where the pats are 11th.

just ask the kicker how good the red zone offense is[/QUOTE

Bigglesworth: This is a legitimate discussion. If you think that its the "biggest waste of a thread", then why are you responding to it?

Maybe your a Moderator-wannabe.

But in the meantime. Quit spreading your negativity. You DON'T know more about football than most on this board.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

that stat is the biggest waste of a thread. the pats are at 218.7 and cincy is right in the middle of the nfl at 210. that's only 5 spots separating them.

gimme a break.....oakland is #1. how much credenece does this argument hold?

you really need to examine total defense where the pats are 11th.

just ask the kicker how good the red zone offense is[/QUOTE

Bigglesworth: This is a legitimate discussion. If you think that its the "biggest waste of a thread", then why are you responding to it?

Maybe your a Moderator-wannabe.

But in the meantime. Quit spreading your negativity. You DON'T know more about football than most on this board.

it's not negative. It's criticizing a stat that is not important in the overall scheme of things. We could all look at stats and pick out a stat that looks bad.

I can think of 5 big plays that have skewed the numbers:
1. Cotchery- 71 yards(great play by jets)
2. Coles- 46 yards(bad tackling)
3. Walker- 32 yards(great pay by walker)
4. Walker- 83 yards(bad help by sanders)
5. Macgahee- 56 yards(caught up wilson luckily to prevent td)

288 total yards divided by 7 games = 41 yards per game average.

If these plays were eliminated the Pats their passing defense yards per game average would go from 218 down to 177.

177 would rank them 5th in the lague right behind Miami and above Cleveland(two superpowers).

Some would say they gave up the big play so they deserve the bad ranking, but I'd say the botttom line is:

1. Win/Loss ranking
2. Redzone Efficiency(Tds scored and scored against)
3. Turnover ratio

So I believe stats can truly be misleading. Hence I am saying I could creat a thread nitpicking one stat that looks bad for the Pats and that stat could be skewed becuase teams couldnt run against the pats so they passed. Teams were down early(i.e. Jets) so they had to pass. The Pats didn't have gigantic yardage against Cincy becuase they got turnovers that put them in or near the red zone early. or even the Macgahee shovel pass was considered a pass and not a run so it made the rush defense look good and the pass defense look bad.

The bottom line is win/losses, but I guess you know more than me.

 

[FloridaPatsFan]

it's not negative. It's criticizing a stat that is not important in the overall scheme of things. We could all look at stats and pick out a stat that looks bad.

I can think of 5 big plays that have skewed the numbers:
1. Cotchery- 71 yards(great play by jets)
2. Coles- 46 yards(bad tackling)
3. Walker- 32 yards(great pay by walker)
4. Walker- 83 yards(bad help by sanders)
5. Macgahee- 56 yards(caught up wilson luckily to prevent td)

288 total yards divided by 7 games = 41 yards per game average.

If these plays were eliminated the Pats their passing defense yards per game average would go from 218 down to 177.

177 would rank them 5th in the lague right behind Miami and above Cleveland(two superpowers).

Some would say they gave up the big play so they deserve the bad ranking, but I'd say the botttom line is:

1. Win/Loss ranking
2. Redzone Efficiency(Tds scored and scored against)
3. Turnover ratio

So I believe stats can truly be misleading. Hence I am saying I could creat a thread nitpicking one stat that looks bad for the Pats and that stat could be skewed becuase teams couldnt run against the pats so they passed. Teams were down early(i.e. Jets) so they had to pass. The Pats didn't have gigantic yardage against Cincy becuase they got turnovers that put them in or near the red zone early. or even the Macgahee shovel pass was considered a pass and not a run so it made the rush defense look good and the pass defense look bad.

The bottom line is win/losses, but I guess you know more than me.

I also am not a big believer in STATS. They can always be skewed to make a team look bad/good. A great example of that is the year we played the Rams in the SB.....Journalists kept pointing out how bad our offense/defense was compared to the Rams...But the truth was, we were one of the highest scoring and least scored upon teams in the NFL that year. I think we were the 6th highest scoring offense and 5th toughest defense to be scored upon that year. YPG as an indicator is simply a joke to me, same as the BCS rankings.

Although I am not a huge Troy Aikman fan, he has put together an index which more precisely indicates a teams stregnth and I would put more stock in his rankings (no matter where the Pats rank) thank any other.

Here's how we rank after week 8:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/9770079

 

[JoeSixPat]

I need to see how we play this weekend before I annoint our defense. We have injuries in the secondary and an inconsistent pass rush. We haven't played a single top offense, and that includes the Bungles.

We can talk all day about how the Pats bend and don't break, but I won't know how good we are until we go against the top offense in the league.

Then I'll be able to make an informed decision on whether we are following in the footsteps of 2003-04.

... but would you go along with the premise of this thread that the Patritots are tne 2nd worst defense in the AFC?

I'm guessing not.