Patriots' WR & RB draft history

[dryheat44]

So if BB prefers that type of player, why did he draft Bethel who was neither of those things in college?

I think he drafted Bethel for the same reason the Bears drafted Hester a few years later....he thought he was going to get a premium return man and depth WR for the duration of a rookie contract. Turns out that's exactly what he was, when healthy. Some things you can't coach, and Bethel's speed was one of them.

 

[dryheat44]

Priority targets: rNT, DE, ILB
Quantity targets: S, OT/OG
Lower priority: All the rest. This is where the upgrades rank.

I find it curious to note that for a team that likes to run a spread offense and has very little depth at WR that you don't seem to place a very high priority on WR. Currently the depth chart is Moss-Welker-Aiken-Washington.

Are you assuming we'll be getting a Bobby Engram/Jabbar Gaffney-type vet, or do you have faith in Sam Aiken being a reliable 3rd WR in '09? Or are you suggesting we don't need another WR, that some combination of Watson or Faulk will be enough?

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I find it curious to note that for a team that likes to run a spread offense and has very little depth at WR that you don't seem to place a very high priority on WR. Currently the depth chart is Moss-Welker-Aiken-Washington.

Are you assuming we'll be getting a Bobby Engram/Jabbar Gaffney-type vet, or do you have faith in Sam Aiken being a reliable 3rd WR in '09? Or are you suggesting we don't need another WR, that some combination of Watson or Faulk will be enough?

Oh no you don't! :enranged: I took "patchick's" analysis and prioritized "her" work. If you read the paragraph following that breakdown you'll find this:

"Back to WR: It's not a need in 2009 [Box note: WR is not a "patchick" need per her scoring system], but it is a future need, as much for the development time as for any openings. Like any other position, taking one on Day One tends to have greater success - even for BB (Branch). As a future need with a longer development time, it rates a priority. Which brings us to your frustration with drafting a WR; my answer is borrowed from my Pastor - fear is not from God. Mike Shanahan openly told people that he was afraid to draft DL because he couldn't get it right. He chose to cower in his bunker and buy used DL. I'm sure you see where this is headed. Failure is guaranteed if you don't try, it may be frustrating to see the castoff WRs of past drafts, but not trying is not an option. We can differ on the immediacy of the "need," 09 or 10, but the "need" exists and I personally rate it a 2009 draft priority." Emphasis added for crotchety old Uncle Heatster who is sitting on his reading glasses to apply a pressure point to his bum hip. :snob:

The ranking I assigned follows that paragraph:

"Day One: rNT, DE, ILB, WR, Best Patriot Value with whichever is the best value being the choice.
Day Two: S, OT/OG, BPV.
- all subject to change during Free Agency if not sooner."

You'll note I'm targeting four different positions on Day One, three because they're just darned hard to shop for. I did "not" rank them in any order because I expect BB to take the player with the best BPV grade when he picks - if that's a QB, well, Gute will have his work cut out for him. But I want to acquire a Day One WR who can fill that #3 slot while learning from Randy & Wes with the hope he can be a legitimate #1 in 2012.

:beatingcoming:

 

[DaBruinz]

Well now, Branch was the 8th WR taken in round two and the 11th WR overall. Chances are that BB may have had his eyes on other WRs (in addition to Branch). Post draft, a Dallas beat writer revealed the reason Dallas traded up for their WR -- to leapfrog the Pats who had their eye on the same receiver not named Branch.

That receiver was Antonio Bryant. Maybe the Pats will pursue him this off-season..

 

[dryheat44]

Oh no you don't! :enranged: I took "patchick's" analysis and prioritized "her" work. If you read the paragraph following that breakdown you'll find this:

I accept the beating. My apologies for replying to the wrong message.

 

[DaBruinz]

I find it curious to note that for a team that likes to run a spread offense and has very little depth at WR that you don't seem to place a very high priority on WR. Currently the depth chart is Moss-Welker-Aiken-Washington.

Are you assuming we'll be getting a Bobby Engram/Jabbar Gaffney-type vet, or do you have faith in Sam Aiken being a reliable 3rd WR in '09? Or are you suggesting we don't need another WR, that some combination of Watson or Faulk will be enough?

The Depth Chart is actually:

Moss, Welker, Aiken, Washington, Slater, Ventrone.

That is hardly "little depth". Considering that the Patriots have larger needs at other places, its stands to reason that the need of WR isn't as much right now as it is of other spots.

Also, there are quite a few decent WRs available in free agency. While the depth of WR in this draft is not stellar, to say the least.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I accept the beating. My apologies for replying to the wrong message.

A gracious apology, thank you. (I just put it down to all the dain bramage from the hip...)

 

[patchick]

Dang...DaBruinz and I agree, while BOR & dryheat beat each other up over how wrong I am? Weird start to the draft season!

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Dang...DaBruinz and I agree, while BOR & dryheat beat each other up over how wrong I am? Weird start to the draft season!

Yeh, but think of the ticket sale revenue!

 

[DaBruinz]

Dang...DaBruinz and I agree, while BOR & dryheat beat each other up over how wrong I am? Weird start to the draft season!

Everyone hates to admit when they think like me because its too scary..:snob: I even scare myself sometimes when I agree...

 

[Seneschal2]

So if BB prefers that type of player, why did he draft Bethel who was neither of those things in college?

I liked dryheat's reply.

There's the kind of prospect that appeals to BB. A highly productive career followed by an impressive Senior Bowl week of practices. He was a low risk player who fit at a position of need.

Actually, I was referring to BB making exceptions for special players in round one, regardless of position. Mentioned WR Clayton because of his resume...the kind of WR I think BB would take a chance on in the first. Clayton was drafted at #22.

Pre-draft, I listed Bethel as my official sleeper pick. Thought he'd be a developmental stretch-the-field receiver, and would immediately serve as the primary kick returner. I chose him for those reasons, knowing he had a fairly productive career (school record holder), and impressive workouts (4.3 Pro Day), and by all accounts -- was a good kid. Was considered a late riser on some draft boards. He was ranked round 2-3 by some, I had him as a 4th rounder. BB obviously valued him where he was selected (#45), and thought he'd be a potential game changer and difference maker on ST, and maybe as a WR. He did lead the AFC in KO avg his rookie season but never developed as a receiver like we had hoped.

The end.

 

[VJCPatriot]

"Day One: rNT, DE, ILB, WR, Best Patriot Value with whichever is the best value being the choice.
Day Two: S, OT/OG, BPV.
- all subject to change during Free Agency if not sooner."

You'll note I'm targeting four different positions on Day One, three because they're just darned hard to shop for. I did "not" rank them in any order because I expect BB to take the player with the best BPV grade when he picks - if that's a QB, well, Gute will have his work cut out for him. But I want to acquire a Day One WR who can fill that #3 slot while learning from Randy & Wes with the hope he can be a legitimate #1 in 2012.

:beatingcoming:

I would rate safety higher. And OLB as well which you completely ignore. Rodney is not coming back. I'm 99% sure of that. ILB I don't prioritize as a 1st day need, mainly because I have faith in Mayo and Guyton. A 3rd ILB is a luxury pick. Somebody would have to wow me to use an early pick, ie Mayo the 2nd, otherwise an adequate developmental ILB can easily be found on day 2.

The offensive line looks good for now barring health issues, BUT once Neal goes down, as he inevitably does, the line looks putrid. Backup OG/C or OG/T would be useful insurance. The health of our RBs is also a concern, as it seems to be chronically bad - Morris, Jordan, LM ALL have injury histories and will likely miss at least some time as seen this season.

 

[patsfan55]

WR 2006 2 Chad Jackson - bust, though his injuries didn't help

:'(
GREG JENNINGS
GREG JENNINGS
(as I rock back and forth in my chair, twitching)
GREG JENNINGS
GREG JENNINGS

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I would rate safety higher. And OLB as well which you completely ignore. Rodney is not coming back. I'm 99% sure of that. ILB I don't prioritize as a 1st day need, mainly because I have faith in Mayo and Guyton. A 3rd ILB is a luxury pick. Somebody would have to wow me to use an early pick, ie Mayo the 2nd, otherwise an adequate developmental ILB can easily be found on day 2.

The offensive line looks good for now barring health issues, BUT once Neal goes down, as he inevitably does, the line looks putrid. Backup OG/C or OG/T would be useful insurance. The health of our RBs is also a concern, as it seems to be chronically bad - Morris, Jordan, LM ALL have injury histories and will likely miss at least some time as seen this season.

The "need" at Safety is roughly equivalent to the need at rNT or rDE, but they get rated higher since they require some the elusive big, athletic, talented body. Safety can be filled by Day Two prospects - there are some very good ones carrying rankings from 3rd round to UDFA. The same of OG - it would be nice to take an Unger Day One, and if he's the best value at that point in the draft then pull the trigger, but if Tyson Jackson or B.J. Raji is sitting there, you have to seriously consider them because players that talented in those bodies are so hard to find.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

:'(
GREG JENNINGS
GREG JENNINGS
(as I rock back and forth in my chair, twitching)
GREG JENNINGS
GREG JENNINGS

You weren't the only one sitting there thinking that... **sigh**

 

[VJCPatriot]

So who's the next Eddie Royal? It seems that good receivers drop to round 2 all the time, we just never seem to get them... Branch excepted.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

So who's the next Eddie Royal? It seems that good receivers drop to round 2 all the time, we just never seem to get them... Branch excepted.

Good question.

 

[dryheat44]

The "need" at Safety is roughly equivalent to the need at rNT or rDE, but they get rated higher since they require some the elusive big, athletic, talented body. Safety can be filled by Day Two prospects - there are some very good ones carrying rankings from 3rd round to UDFA. The same of OG - it would be nice to take an Unger Day One, and if he's the best value at that point in the draft then pull the trigger, but if Tyson Jackson or B.J. Raji is sitting there, you have to seriously consider them because players that talented in those bodies are so hard to find.

The difference is that until Rodney or the Sanders brothers re-sign, we need a safety who can start from the jump. Those guys usually can't be filled by Day Two prospects. If Rodney doesn't come back, I think we need to look at safety in the first round if the value is there.

Of course, this, along with every other post I make right now, is subject to change with each free agent signing or extension signed.

 

[dryheat44]

The Depth Chart is actually:

Moss, Welker, Aiken, Washington, Slater, Ventrone.

That is hardly "little depth". Considering that the Patriots have larger needs at other places, its stands to reason that the need of WR isn't as much right now as it is of other spots.

Also, there are quite a few decent WRs available in free agency. While the depth of WR in this draft is not stellar, to say the least.

Why not just say that the depth chart is Moss, Welker, Aiken, Washington, Slater, Ventrone, Faulk, Thomas, Hochstein, Mayo, Spann, and Wilfork?

Washington, Slater, and Ventrone took few, if any, snaps at WR this year. Of the three, I remember Slater being thrown one pass, and it was in garbage time. Ventrone isn't even under contract. The reality is we have three, and only three, wide receivers who have caught a pass in an NFL game within the last two years. I believe that is a big need, given we usually have 3 WR on the field. If we re-sign Gaffney, or get a guy like Engram, which I think we will, then I'll come around to your line of thinking that we have adequate depth at the position. But as the roster stands now, I would put WR as our second greatest need, behind safety.

 

[patchick]

You weren't the only one sitting there thinking that... **sigh**

Yep, we all remember Jennings as the one that got away...mostly because it was one of the rare cases where the draftnik fans were all drooling over one guy, BB took another -- and we were right.



stewart bradley