Patriots without Pioli

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

You do realize that Willis is assigned entirely different responsibliities than Mayo, don't you.
If you are expecting Mayo to read, react and execute his play the way a MLB in a system that asks him to read the play and run to the ball, he will suck in your eyes even if he is the greatest LB to ever play the game.
Mayo's responsibility in the run game is control the gaps on either side of the G he is lined up across from. That is entirely different than what you seem to be saying you want to see him do.
Here are some examples.
If the play is run in either gap between the C and T areas, Mayo must step up, establish the los, and be responsbile for both sides of the G. This typical means he is engaging the G and playing off of the block.
If the play goes away, Mayo job is NOT to read and chase. It is to step up into the G area FIRST and play cutback or counter.
If the play is an onside 'stretch' play, Mayo is not reading where the cut may be and chasing to the sideline, he is stepping up to his area then flowing after he knows the play did not come to or cutback to his area,

You are confusing a MLB in a one gap system who is told he is responsible for every inch of the field, sideline to sideline, to a guy who is first responsible for the area from C to T and then AFTER discharging those responsibilities can he read and chase.
IT is night and day.

Mayo was supposed to be the guy that succeeds Bruschi. Unfortunately, the last two seasons the Pats had to play Mayo at the SILB because he was their best ILB and nobody else could fill the role.

Like I said in an earlier post, now that Mayo will probably be lined up on the weak side, it's not far fetched to ask for him to start making plays who was the 10th pick overall.

The jury is out on Mayo and their are no more room for excuses. When Ted Johnson was playing the strong side, Bruschi was the Pats playmaking LB; making clutch play after clutch play. So far, all Mayo does is tackle guys after the damage has already been done.

I've said this before and nobody really seemed to care but Merrill Hodge broke down some film of Mayo and saw that he gets engulfed in guards too easily and is very slow at reading plays.

This is the exact reason why I believed the Pats were going to draft a LB like Brandon Spikes to do the dirty work while Mayo can use his athleticism.

It's put up or shut time for Mayo.

 

[Ring 6]

Mayo was supposed to be the guy that succeeds Bruschi. Unfortunately, the last two seasons the Pats had to play Mayo at the SILB because he was their best ILB and nobody else could fill the role.

Like I said in an earlier post, now that Mayo will probably be lined up on the weak side, it's not far fetched to ask for him to start making plays who was the 10th pick overall.

The jury is out on Mayo and their are no more room for excuses. When Ted Johnson was playing the strong side, Bruschi was the Pats playmaking LB; making clutch play after clutch play. So far, all Mayo does is tackle guys after the damage has already been done.

I've said this before and nobody really seemed to care but Merrill Hodge broke down some film of Mayo and saw that he gets engulfed in guards too easily and is very slow at reading plays.

This is the exact reason why I believed the Pats were going to draft a LB like Brandon Spikes to do the dirty work while Mayo can use his athleticism.

It's put up or shut time for Mayo.

In our system the strong side and weak side ILBs have essentially the same duties. Teams run to the weakside almost as often as the strong side, so which ILB lines up strong isn'treal relevant.
I don't know what big difference you are expecting but Mayo will still be taking on a G when the play comes directly at him, and still need to step up into his area before chasing.
If Mayo is making tackles after 5-8 yards gains on plays run right at him, that is a problem. If the play is run to a different spot on the field, pretty much by definition he will arrive later at the ball carrier that any LB in a one gap chasing system. When Mayo is at RILB and the play run off the ROT (other side of the formation) he will never be making a tackle unless a good amount of yards were gained because he has other duties to execute before chasing.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

In our system the strong side and weak side ILBs have essentially the same duties. Teams run to the weakside almost as often as the strong side, so which ILB lines up strong isn'treal relevant.
I don't know what big difference you are expecting but Mayo will still be taking on a G when the play comes directly at him, and still need to step up into his area before chasing.
If Mayo is making tackles after 5-8 yards gains on plays run right at him, that is a problem. If the play is run to a different spot on the field, pretty much by definition he will arrive later at the ball carrier that any LB in a one gap chasing system. When Mayo is at RILB and the play run off the ROT (other side of the formation) he will never be making a tackle unless a good amount of yards were gained because he has other duties to execute before chasing.

The point that many people are making is that Bruschi made a ton of plays; stripping James, breaking up passes and taking INT's back for TD's. All Mayo does is tackle. I understand that Bruschi didn't start becoming clutch until 2003, but Mayo has a lot more talent.

 

[Ring 6]

The point that many people are making is that Bruschi made a ton of plays; stripping James, breaking up passes and taking INT's back for TD's. All Mayo does is tackle. I understand that Bruschi didn't start becoming clutch until 2003, but Mayo has a lot more talent.

That doesnt really have anything to do with whether he is lined up strong side or weak side, it has to do with him making plays.
The first and foremost job for the ILB is to consistently play the run. I also think Mayo has done well in pass D, although the turnovers havent been there.
There is a misconception that we have a 'run D' ILB and a 'pass D ILB'.
And it goes back to when Ted Johnson would leave the field for passing downs. He still had the exact same responsibilities as Bruschi in the base D, just on the other side of the C.
Sure there are some minor differences in weak and strong side, but they basically are doing the same thing.

 

[poor aidsy]

Another jetfan Pwned......:rocker:

I get banned from the JI circlejerk and this guy folllows me here......PATHETIC

Hope you had a great 4th S-h-i-t-sgreen

YOUTH and DEPTH!!! YOUTH AND DEPTH!!! I tell ya!!


"that Maroney is gonna be a sensation!!! And Chad Jackson in round 2 is "THE STEAL OF THE DRAFT!!!!"***

***Blue Blunder, April 2006 after those two whiffs were drafted

 

[Joker]

Ban this jerk...it's SG3 from Gangrene...banned at J.I.

worst Rat troll ever

 

[poor aidsy]

sorry drunk


never posted ever at gangrene and NOT banned at JI either. When you sober up, try and get your facts straight


also won't ever post at your favorite place where your intellectual equal sporticus is the king

 

[Joker]

banned at gangrene...banned at J.I.,...banned at AL East....your track record speaks for itself

 

[IllegalContact]

Did I miss something and the rule of thumb for evaluating drafts changed?

The first rule, which Belichick and every other Personnel guy touts as a mantra, is that it takes 3 years to fully evaluate a player. So, to be talking about these drafts being better already is jumping the gun..

Also, people want to throw someone under the bus for the 2007 draft. How about the players themselves, from that draft? That draft has been extremely poor across the league.. Yet, people on here still slam BB for it.

This is the year to fully evaluate the 2008 draft. On the hotseat are Mayo, Wilhite, Wheatley, Slater, and Crable.. So far, only Mayo has shown to be in the good to excellent category. Wilhite is a JAG at worst. Slater is an ACE special Teamer.. Wheatley and Crable need to show something or the draft will go down as a poor one..

The 2009 draft looks very promising considering the contributions from Edelman, Pryor, Chung, Butler, Vollmer, etc, but there is still 2 years of playing before we can say it was an outright success..

wrong. first round draft picks are expected to be immediate contributors or else they are poor value. there are some exception with QB being the biggest one (depending on the coaching staff on this one, though) some guys get brought along a little more slowly, but they still contribute. 2nd rounders are also supposed to at least contribute as depth.

mayo has performed as expected unless you expect football players to not get injured. given who the pats drafted this year and last, you could argue that wheatley is a failure as is crable. the new guys at those positions are the priority now. mckenzie gets another shot to get on the field.

but the bottom line is that the needs for these draft picks have changed over the last few years. today, the needs are more urgent as the players who gave draft picks time to develop are now gone.

 

[Ring 6]

wrong. first round draft picks are expected to be immediate contributors or else they are poor value. there are some exception with QB being the biggest one (depending on the coaching staff on this one, though) some guys get brought along a little more slowly, but they still contribute. 2nd rounders are also supposed to at least contribute as depth.

mayo has performed as expected unless you expect football players to not get injured. given who the pats drafted this year and last, you could argue that wheatley is a failure as is crable. the new guys at those positions are the priority now. mckenzie gets another shot to get on the field.

but the bottom line is that the needs for these draft picks have changed over the last few years. today, the needs are more urgent as the players who gave draft picks time to develop are now gone.

Its a tough topic as society continues to have a greater need to judge and ategorize everything and do it in a 24 hour news cycle.
Frankly, the point of the draft is to build a roster that wins football games.
As much as everyone likes to create a tidy set of rules to describe good or bad, thats a flawed approach.
The roster you have, not to mention philosophy and system dictate your draft goals. To think the 2004 Patriots and the 2009 Lions had the same draft goals, or should be judged on the same criteria is silly.
Using a guidleine that says if you are draftied in X round, you should do Y, results in all of the bad teams having good drafts. Not onl do they typically select earlier in the round but they by definition of being a bad team have worse players and a better opportunity for that guy to contribute.
Ultimately the most accurate way to judge drafts is the overall success of the franchse because the draft is no more than a tool in achieving that.

Not to mention that IMO how you manage, teach, train and coach your draft picks AND how they respond to it and how serious;ly tey take their career has 100 times more to do with their success than which player you chose.

 

[Ian]

sorry drunk


never posted ever at gangrene and NOT banned at JI either. When you sober up, try and get your facts straight


also won't ever post at your favorite place where your intellectual equal sporticus is the king

I think it's best if you reside in the Visiting Locker Room, and I have removed you from this thread.

 

[reflexblue]

Mayo was supposed to be the guy that succeeds Bruschi. Unfortunately, the last two seasons the Pats had to play Mayo at the SILB because he was their best ILB and nobody else could fill the role.

Like I said in an earlier post, now that Mayo will probably be lined up on the weak side, it's not far fetched to ask for him to start making plays who was the 10th pick overall.

The jury is out on Mayo and their are no more room for excuses.

This is the exact reason why I believed the Pats were going to draft a LB like Brandon Spikes to do the dirty work while Mayo can use his athleticism.

It's put up or shut time for Mayo.

I can't believe im still reading unenlightened stuff like this, And when i say unenlightened i'm being kind. Mayo was seriously injured last year, he came back much earlier than anyone could have expected.

 

[IllegalContact]

Its a tough topic as society continues to have a greater need to judge and ategorize everything and do it in a 24 hour news cycle.
Frankly, the point of the draft is to build a roster that wins football games.
As much as everyone likes to create a tidy set of rules to describe good or bad, thats a flawed approach.
The roster you have, not to mention philosophy and system dictate your draft goals. To think the 2004 Patriots and the 2009 Lions had the same draft goals, or should be judged on the same criteria is silly.
Using a guidleine that says if you are draftied in X round, you should do Y, results in all of the bad teams having good drafts. Not onl do they typically select earlier in the round but they by definition of being a bad team have worse players and a better opportunity for that guy to contribute.
Ultimately the most accurate way to judge drafts is the overall success of the franchse because the draft is no more than a tool in achieving that.

Not to mention that IMO how you manage, teach, train and coach your draft picks AND how they respond to it and how serious;ly tey take their career has 100 times more to do with their success than which player you chose.

I understand that drafting is not an exact science, but there are basic expectations that separate 1st rounders from 2nd rounders, and 2nd from 3rd and so on. there are busts like chris canty and vernon gholston and there are incredible values like tom brady and mike webster.

however, you can not refute the fact that a higher percentage of 1st rounders make it than 2nd rounders and it all flows downhill in that manner. there's a reason that ty warren was drafted in the first round and dan klecko in the 4th.

that said, the scouting process cannot compensate for the things it cannot see like the situation the player is in and how he will excel if he is put in another one. some see taylor price as the deep threat to replace randy moss because of his speed while others see him as a complement to a deep threat because he also has the same lateral agility that wes welker has as well as phenominal away from the body catching skills.

what a player can do from the very first moment is another thing. I don't believe that coaching is the primary force behind what made edelman play like he did as a rookie. it was the player, and the scouting process could not see that one in any way shape or form.

positional opportunity also plays into it. some guys never get the chance because it is not needed. while an edelman or a myron pryor are given a shot because no other option is available, and they take advantage of the opportunity. dave thomas is a good example of a player who was given up on probably because the staff ran out of patience because he did not consistently do things exactly how they wanted them to. but he contributed to an SB for another team who used his skills better than the pats did.

there are way too many factors, but there are things that separate early draft picks from later ones

there is still the expectation along with the paycheck that makes being drafted where you are what it is.

 

[IllegalContact]

I can't believe im still reading unenlightened stuff like this, And when i say unenlightened i'm being kind. Mayo was seriously injured last year, he came back much earlier than anyone could have expected.

mayo is not willis, but that's life.

he is still one of the best young ILB's in the league

 

[reflexblue]

mayo is not willis, but that's life.

he is still one of the best young ILB's in the league

I don't care if hes not willis hes close enough.

 

[IllegalContact]

I don't care if hes not willis hes close enough.

he isn't really.

the pats defense would be better with willis instead of mayo. not a knock against mayo, but you really cannot refute this

 

[Ring 6]

mayo is not willis, but that's life.

he is still one of the best young ILB's in the league

He doesnt play the same position as Willis. By name he does, but his job in our defense is entirely different from Willis' in SFs.
As different as Tony Gonzalez and Kyle Brady when both were starting TEs.

 

[Ring 6]

he isn't really.

the pats defense would be better with willis instead of mayo. not a knock against mayo, but you really cannot refute this

You can easily refute that, because Willis isnt playing in a 2gap defense.

You'd have a better argument saying the SF is better with Willis than they would be with Mayo,only because Willis' ability in THAT system sets the bar so high, you have a good chance of being correct no matter how good Mayo would be in it.
Willis would not make anywhere near the number of plays in our defense because he would have responsibilties other than 'run to the ball while we keep blockers off of you'

 

[reflexblue]

he isn't really.

the pats defense would be better with willis instead of mayo. not a knock against mayo, but you really cannot refute this

I'm sure i could if i wanted to but when you state that its not close i know from experiance that its not worth it .......really you don't even know if Logan Mankins is guard or a Left Tackle.

 

[IllegalContact]

He doesnt play the same position as Willis. By name he does, but his job in our defense is entirely different from Willis' in SFs.
As different as Tony Gonzalez and Kyle Brady when both were starting TEs.

not as different