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Patriots officially a top 10 Defense!


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There are several area's that are more important than YPG. First there is scoring, then red zone, then turnover ratio, next is my eyballs, and last is YPG.

Combine all those things and the Patriots defense is impoving, no doubt about it. But I think it's middle of the pack defense from what my eyes tell me. As long as they keep improving and play better as a unit when the injured players come back, then I'll feel even better about that.

Now a couple have mentioned that the Packers would cave them up. I hope that we get the chance to find out if that is right. That will mean that the Patriots will be meetng them in the Super Bowl. Until then, that is a very meaningless statement that cannot be proven.
 
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So they're "not a Top Ten D" because they give up a lot of yards, and because those are way more important than actual points.

And they're also not a Top Ten D because BB uses scheme to hide the defensive weaknesses. That makes sense, because the rest of the Top Ten defenses just trot out 11 perfect players. I actually found a transcript of **** LeBeau's calls for Pittsburgh: "Okay, here we go...stop them on downs or get a turnover. That is all." You know, because they're players who have no deficiencies that need to be covered up by scheme.

The Pats are 10th in the league in the only stat that matters. If not for some garbage TDs with a big lead, they're better than 10th.

Some of you people will argue anything just to be miserable.

Sweet Christmas.
 
Now a couple have mentioned that the Packers would cave them up.

on a related note, Nut...I'm a gonna "cave " in that Turk this Thursday watching these games....have a great holiday
 
Those couple people saying that garbage about GB are jokes.

The Patriots would cave up the Packers D too. They are what.... 31st in the league I believe and they are playing truly terrible offenses compared to the average ones NE's D is playing.

I don't wanna hear it. I would say they'll see at the SB, but I don't even see GB in the picture, Guess they'll have to wait another 2 years for the regular season matchup.
 
There are several area's that are more important than YPG. First there is scoring, then red zone, then turnover ratio, next is my eyballs, and last is YPG.

Combine all those things and the Patriots defense is impoving, no doubt about it. But I think it's middle of the pack defense from what my eyes tell me. As long as they keep improving and play better as a unit when the injured players come back, then I'll feel even better about that.

Now a couple have mentioned that the Packers would cave them up. I hope that we get the chance to find out if that is right. That will mean that the Patriots will be meetng them in the Super Bowl. Until then, that is a very meaningless statement that cannot be proven.

I agree w/you, it's an improving D

I disagree w/saying w/certainty that it's middle-of-the-pack, but it's a quibble. You are most likely correct.

We want solid facts, solid rankings, we're better than these guys, not as good as those guys, etc.

What it comes down to is likelihood of making the right play at the right time, likelihood you'll be in a position to win, etc.

Your ranking of categories is pretty good, but think about it. Someone has to pull a Brady on us and go 60 yards in 1 minute then kick a field goal. Let's say you've got a great red zone D and you give up yards in bunches. You are likely to lose.

Similarly if they need a touchdown to beat us, the above profile is perfect. They can't get the TD, you feel secure.

Or if they're up on us and trying to run out the clock, but you have enough TOs/there's enough time where they will HAVE to move the chains -- well then a combination of a "don't bend" defense plus the ability to force negative plays/turnovers becomes huge.

I know this is all stating the obvious, but it all goes to thinking of these "rankings" as sort of useless, except when you're bad at everything or good at everything, see what I mean? Each game is a series of moments where you can excel, do okay, or suck. "Rankings" of teams involve unstated simulations -- how often will X occur, how often will Y occur, how often will Z occur. And then despite all our simulations, an actual game may come down to things that are not what you're good at.

Then you have great "rankings" at several categories, and, say, don't have pass rush pressure (which we now do have, at least against piss-poor opponents.) You watch the game, and you blame the outcome on lack of a pass rush. Just an example that we saw a lot of here over the years.

Same goes for just about every aspect of the D.

The only definitive statement I can make is that this unit has exceeded some very low expectations, based on the idea that the starters should be better than their backups... it's a pleasant surprise, but it would be even better if the starters had been playing at a really high level.

The team's obviously making really good use of recently installed strengths -- Anderson & Carter come to mind -- but give teams 8 weeks of knowledge of these new toys, and up the level of play, and well, you do the math (no pun intended.)
 
Even considering how terribly they played in the first few games, they are still in the top half of the league in most indicative defensive stats.

YPG: 32nd
Pass YPG: 32nd
Passer rating against: 19th
INTs: 2nd
Sacks: 16th
Total turnovers: 8th
Rushing YPA: 13th
Rushing YPG: 13th
Point/Game: 10th


I think it's reasonable to call them a top half defense. They'll play more than well enough to get this team a playoff spot, and probably a bye, but will they hold up to the top teams come playoff time? Luckily the AFC has mediocre offenses. They should be plenty good enough to get us through to the Super Bowl, assuming the offense doesn't get shut down.
 
Aaron Rodgers destroys most defenses.

Aaron Rodgers has been making a living feasting off of terrible pass Ds.

Go look at his schedule and the teams he's played. He is playing lights out, but people need to stop getting carried away...

I, for one, need to see him actually play against a string of elite defenses (he never has) and do well (he never has).

In fact, when he played the Jets last year (the one time he's played them), I believe he had like a 30 QB rating?
 
This is a pretty good stat to chew on going into their 11th game of the season next week. Their defense is definitely questionable at times, but it looks like they're coming together better now towards the back half of the season. THey just need to continue to improve at all aspects of the game going into the post season.

For anyone who calls PPG allowed a misleading stat, they're grasping at straws. That's the single most important stat there is to measure a defense or an offense. Points is what wins games, and every year top defenses and top offenses are ranked by all of these meaningless stats that are very misleading in the grand scheme of things. I hate rankings that come out every year on top units. The only thing I use as a barometer for what the best unit is on both sides of the ball is PPG average, because that is what matters at the end of the day and what determines a win or a loss week to week.
 
OMG....we played a solid game against a QB in his first start with an overall offensively challenged team.....if the Pat's Defense couldn't hold this team to a low score, I would be very worried....but not very shocked.

The team is playing better Defense....we have a lot of lower tier teams coming up.....their stats ought to get better.....doesn't mean the Defense is anything other than "meh"....

Besides that, the Eagle game has the potential to be a very tough, high scoring matchup.....if the Pats lose....a distinct possibility.....it will be amusing to be reading these boards then.....

This board has a huge number of Bipolar fans.....they will be out in force if we don't sweep the season...
 
I think it's annoying how being a chronic complainer is consistently misrepresented as being realistic on sports message boards...

Being a chronic complainer and being realistic are not always mutually exclusive.
 
OMG....we played a solid game against a QB in his first start with an overall offensively challenged team.....if the Pat's Defense couldn't hold this team to a low score, I would be very worried....but not very shocked.

The team is playing better Defense....we have a lot of lower tier teams coming up.....their stats ought to get better.....doesn't mean the Defense is anything other than "meh"....

Besides that, the Eagle game has the potential to be a very tough, high scoring matchup.....if the Pats lose....a distinct possibility.....it will be amusing to be reading these boards then.....

This board has a huge number of Bipolar fans.....they will be out in force if we don't sweep the season...

For as much fire power as the Eagles have on offense, they really have under achieved mostly this season. Vick hasn't been nearly the same guy he was last season, Jackson hasn't been focused, and they just haven't put it all together just yet. If VY plays, then they're going to be limited at times and I think this Patriots defense can force some TO's and take advantage of them when the opportunity arises. I don't think the Eagles have been consistent enough on defense all year to feel confident that they can stop this passing attack from the Pats either. I don't see this being a real high scoring game. I see it as a game where the Pats should be able to win it with a score like 27 to 17 or something like that.

I won't count out the Eagles either though. Their team is still stacked and could really catch on at some point. They just seem to have so many internal issues and a lack of consistency on both sides of the ball. It's definitely not an easy win by any stretch though. THe Pats need to be very focused to win this game.
 
Unsurprisingly, given the way the schedule has been laid out, we are repeating the same patterns as last year. The defense sucks but, after being exposed for the lousy defense that it is, it faces crap competition and competition that is struggling when it meets the Patriots, and people begin to overrate the defense.

Hopefully, the end of the pattern is not repeated. Hell, for that matter, hopefully the end of the pattern isn't repeated with the offense, either.

Word.

Almost as much as yards allowed is generally irrelevant, so then is points allowed not always the truest measurment of the quality of a defense.
Points per possession, 3rd-down %, sacks per pass attempt, red zone %, punts forced % are also relevant statistics that can help measure the quality of a defense. Maybe NFL.com has some of those #s available.
 
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Word.

Points per possession, 3rd-down %, sacks per pass attempt, red zone %, punts forced % are also relevant statistics that can help measure the quality of a defense. Maybe NFL.com has some of those #s available.

None of those matter when compared to the actual number of real-world points a D gives up. There are no weighted points.

A defense that allows teams to score a lot blows. A defense that keeps teams from scoring a lot is effective.
 
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None of those matter when compared to the actual number of real-world points a D gives up. There are no weighted points.

A defense that allows teams to score a lot blows. A team that keeps teams from scoring a lot is effective.

Points allowed can be just as misleading as other stats can be. Surrendering 24 points to the #1 offense in the league isn't necessarily a bad job of playing defense, but surrendering 24 points to that Chiefs offense last night would have been a disaster of epic proportions. On the flip side, holding that Chiefs offense to 3 points was all but meaningless (10 points of fewer scored in 1/2 of their games this year, 28 year old stiff of a backup starting at QB), but holding the Eagles offense to 3 points next game would be a pretty nice accomplishment.
 
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I don't know why some people choose to focus on such a meaningless stat as points allowed, when everyone knows the team that has the most yards in a game wins not the team with most points. Oh wait....
 
Points allowed can be just as misleading as other stats can be. Surrendering 24 points to the #1 offense in the league isn't necessarily a bad job of playing defense, but surrendering 24 points to that Chiefs offense last night would have been a disaster of epic proportions. On the flip side, holding that Chiefs offense to 3 points was all but meaningless (10 points of fewer scored in 1/2 of their games this year, 28 year old stiff of a backup starting at QB), but holding the Eagles offense to 3 points next game would be a pretty nice accomplishment.

I don't think anyone's basing their opinion just on last night. Not that it's a matter of opinion, anyway. They're 10th in points allowed, after a pretty rough opening schedule.

The defense sucks but, after being exposed for the lousy defense that it is...

Still waiting for this statement to be backed up.
 
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I don't think anyone's basing their opinion just on last night. Not that it's a matter of opinion, anyway. They're 10th in points allowed, after a pretty rough opening schedule.

When they faced that "pretty rough opening schedule", they were lit up like a Christmas tree. When the defense has been in a position to come up with a stop and win a game, it's failed miserably. That's sort of the point here.

The defense sucks but, after being exposed for the lousy defense that it is...

Still waiting for this statement to be backed up.

It's been done already, time and again.
 
Being a chronic complainer and being realistic are not always mutually exclusive.

Yes they are. A realist would acknowledge that there are both positive and negative aspects. Focusing all your attention on the negatives, constantly complaining about them, and hardly ever talking about the positives is FAR from being a realist.
 
I agree that no one stat defines everything, but only a fool would think that yardage allowed is more significant than points allowed. It is points that go on the scoreboard and win or lose games.

When the sample size is so significant as to largely negate variability in quality of offenses faced (and 10 games is a substantial sample size) you can also put a lot of creedance into the validity of the stat.

I don't really know why everyone focuses on yards allowed rather than points allowed- perhaps it's the popularity of fantasy football, where yards are tracked religiously. It just seems odd to me.
 
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