Patriots 2013 Training Camp - Day 8, Saturday August 3

[West Philly Patriot]

Microfracture surgery has an unusually long recovery time in a lot of cases, but there is a chance (possibly a good one) that Ballard may never be the same as he was again.

If Ballard cant go, I would PUP him before the 1st preseason game if possible. Week 6 is better than nothing, they have already invested in him. Start Hooman/Fells and bring Sudfield along slowly in spot duty. Not a fan of Fells so hoping Sudfield takes his spot by the time Gronk/Ballard can go.

If they think Ballard will never be the same, which was an average starter anyway, cut ties now. More reps for our UDFA's in preseason. Reps are at a premium.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

If Ballard cant go, I would PUP him before the 1st preseason game if possible. Week 6 is better than nothing, they have already invested in him. Start Hooman/Fells and bring Sudfield along slowly in spot duty. Not a fan of Fells so hoping Sudfield takes his spot by the time Gronk/Ballard can go.

If they think Ballard will never be the same, which was an average starter anyway, cut ties now. More reps for our UDFA's in preseason. Reps are at a premium.

For the Nth time you cannot PUP a guy who has practiced.

i tried to get Patsfans to make this a sticky in years past because despite several informed fans correcting the "Just PUP him" crowd, the ignorance continues.

 

[Rob0729]

For the Nth time you cannot PUP a guy who has practiced.

i tried to get Patsfans to make this a sticky in years past because despite several informed fans correcting the "Just PUP him" crowd, the ignorance continues.

You can in-season IR him which is just a PUP for one player who has practiced, but I tend to doubt the Pats would use it on Ballard.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

You can in-season IR him which is just a PUP for one player who has practiced, but I tend to doubt the Pats would use it on Ballard.

Yes. That worked out so well for us last year

 

[Ring 6]

Patriots Training Camp Day 8

So no projections Andy? Just dropping in to tell us that it is too soon to tell? Okay, so if 8 practices is too few, how many practices is meaningful? 12? 15? 2 preseason games? all 4? And too soon for what? To know for certain? 74% probability? 35%? Do you think we do not realize that everyone on the roster is a logical possibility to make the squad right up until they are cut? You see the rest of us are just playing "guess the roster". Any guess about the final roster is--guess what--a guess. We make projections until our binkies are cut, then we simply revise and make new projections! That's why we have that cool program to play with and make revisions so easily. Come final cut-downs, we will all be wrong of course. You should jump in, it's fun. That said, if the best you can come up with is 2 injured vets, one of whom is nicknamed "molasses" and the other is coming off reconstructive knee surgery, it looks like those of us projecting 4 rookie receivers are really not far out on the limb at all.

You know as well as I do that my comments were directed at you saying he "has already done too much to be cut".
If you felt you were right you wouldn't be here pretending I am saying something different than that.
Your post here is simply an argument with yourself.
It appears though that you now agree with be on the point I was discussing.
There is no need to make up something I didn't argue to make yourself feel better. It's ok to be wrong and admit it.

 

[Ring 6]

Patriots Training Camp Day 8

Your arguing with yourself here, you keep banging the 8 practices drum, when I simply have said Jenkins hasn't looked good and the UDFA has looked better. No one is cutting Jenkins....yet. We as fans are just discussing things as they unfold, as usual. So I'm not sure why you are railing against discussion of a position battle, one which Jenkins is losing unanimously thus far according to sources.

My only point is that Thompkins can't earn a roster spot in 8 practices. Contrary to everyone saying I've said something else that is my entire point of view in this thread.

 

[Ring 6]

Patriots Training Camp Day 8

I'm not getting upset more I'm becoming frustrated given your modus operandi. You're not paying other people's opinions the respect they deserve by first, reading a post in its entirety, comprehending that post and responding in kind.

When someone agrees with most of your points then adds a few qualifiers, I simply don't understand why you become argumentative when that poster has agreed with 75-80% of what you've put forward.

I wasn't being argumentative. What point is there in continuing the portion of discussion we agree upon?

 

[West Philly Patriot]

For the Nth time you cannot PUP a guy who has practiced.

i tried to get Patsfans to make this a sticky in years past because despite several informed fans correcting the "Just PUP him" crowd, the ignorance continues.

Keep your pants on Pissah, I said if possible. Thanks for the correction. They may have to carry him then.

 

[Ring 6]

Patriots Training Camp Day 8

It says example or possibility nowhere in your post, but I'll take your word for it.

However, it lines up perfectly with what you seem to be saying. UDFA's are automatically on the PS pending preseason, and are behind all vets even if they appear more explosive, quicker, etc in camp. What is the point of camp then? What is the point of posting before preseason, if you refuse to acknowledge camp progressions and dismiss all the info you have thus far.

Essentially nothing has changed for you since after the draft then? Talk to you in preseason.

If you read what I was responding it would have been clear.

As for all of the rest once again I am saying 8 practices is not enough for Thompkins to have done too much to be cut.
What happens in actual football games in live competition means significantly more than a week if practices mostly with no contact.
So you disagree that if he struggles in preseason games that outweighs what he has done so far?
Of course things change with everything a player does but what can change in a handful of practices is being overrated severely.
Thompkins had momentum but that won't matter if it doesnt translate to the field.
Again I'm not arguing whether he will get there just that its way too soon to say there is no way possible he won't make the team.

 

[Rob0729]

Yes. That worked out so well for us last year

Part of the reason why I said it is doubtful Ballard would get the designation.

 

[Ring 6]

Patriots Training Camp Day 8

Ever since I've been here, Andy hates undrafteds/late round hard working guys, while constantly defending BB's early round picks. Hell, he would probably still have Maroney and Wheatley on this team.

Remember when you (Andy) said BJGE wasn't worth of being the 5th RB over the roster? You constantly called me out for no reason when I thought BJGE should start over Maroney in 09. Well how'd that turn out? One's been out of the league for two years and the other has had success as a starting RB on two teams.

You claim Ninkovich is terrible and doesn't generate a pass rush, while his sacks gravitate towards him, without no basis or fact.

What's the big deal if people like UDFAs as fans? They have great stories and while the majority of them just don't have the talent of drafted players, a few have special circumstances to why they went undrafted. (Thompkins, Sudfeld)

What's the difference between Dobson, Boyce, and Thompkins? Nothing, they are all rookies. I'm glad BB sees that and has put Thompkins on the first team above Boyce, Jenkins, etc. in training camp. Thompkins has already sent two vets packing in Hawkins and Jones, Jenkins is next.

I'm also glad BB realizes Dowling is a pretty mediocre CB and starts an undrafted CB (Arrington) and a 7th rounder (Dennard) above him, how dare he!

I think you are overstating things.
I could not care less who plays as long as its the best player. I root for the laundry 100%.
That said players are drafted where they are or not drafted based upon skills
Of course udfas will make the team and do well but the chances are slim so until proven I would expect the more talented player to prevail. When they don't, they don't.
I have not said ninkovich is terrible but he does not get much pressure and his sacks really are from qbs being flushed to him. There is plenty of evidence just watch him play. It's not really debatable if you do.

I gave nothing against longshot players. I am just skeptical. Nowhere in this thread or anywhere else gave I denigrated Thompkins. My comments were in response to a claim he has already locked a roster spot and I will still state with certainty that if impossible 8 practices in. I hope he becomes an all pro but he has to show it vs live competition to convince me.

 

[Mack Herron]

You know as well as I do that my comments were directed at you saying he "has already done too much to be cut".
If you felt you were right you wouldn't be here pretending I am saying something different than that.
Your post here is simply an argument with yourself.
It appears though that you now agree with be on the point I was discussing.
There is no need to make up something I didn't argue to make yourself feel better. It's ok to be wrong and admit it.

You keep missing the point that when someone says a player is going to make the roster (has done too much to be cut, is better than the other guy, etc) it is the opinion of the poster. I don't actually tell BB what to do. Sometimes I think he doesn't even read this board (despite the fact that there are one or two posters who occasionally get it right even when he doesn't). I am wrong all the time on facts, but I wasn't wrong in stating that I think Thompkins has made the team. I am fully aware that final cuts have not been made. BB doesn't need to make a decision until then. It is too early for BB. It is never too early for a fan to give his opinion. I will clarify for you: In my opinion which, like any other projection, could be completely wrong, Thomkins has made the roster.

 

[Ring 6]

Patriots Training Camp Day 8

You keep missing the point that when someone says a player is going to make the roster (has done too much to be cut, is better than the other guy, etc) it is the opinion of the poster. I don't actually tell BB what to do. Sometimes I think he doesn't even read this board (despite the fact that there are one or two posters who occasionally get it right even when he doesn't). I am wrong all the time on facts, but I wasn't wrong in stating that I think Thompkins has made the team. I am fully aware that final cuts have not been made. BB doesn't need to make a decision until then. It is too early for BB. It is never too early for a fan to give his opinion. I will clarify for you: In my opinion which, like any other projection, could be completely wrong, Thomkins has made the roster.

No it is you who are missing the point. Or we are just talking about 2 different things
When you say he has done to much to be cut that is saying the evaluation is complete enough that nothing could happen. What if he sucks against live competition? What if he can't get separation at game speed? What if he gets alligator arms?
I'm not saying these things will happen but they certainly are among the parts of his game that gave not yet been determined or evaluated.
Your comment implies that no matter how he looks from here (when the real evaluation happens) he is a lock because he had proven himself.
I m saying proving yourself in 8 practices is not nearly enough.

If you are saying that he first 8 practices of a players career are all you need to know and you only meant did too much to be cut on your mock roster then I wish you would have said that because it would have saved a lot of cyberspace.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Part of the reason why I said it is doubtful Ballard would get the designation.

That's what Yes means