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Pass Defense -Not as Bad as You Think

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by slash83, Oct 4, 2011.

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  1. slash83

    slash83 Rookie

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  2. Zeus

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    The conventional wisdom (and opinion of many on this board) is that NE has far and away the worst pass defense in the league. The customary ranking is based on passing yards allowed. NE ranks last with 1475 yards through 4 games.

    Let's compare NE with the Dream Team Philadelphia Eagles.

    The Eagles have given up 871 yards passing through week 4, ranking them 11th in the league. Obviously better than the embarrassingly woeful Patriots, right?

    The Eagles superior pass rush (15 sacks, ranked #1) has to be a huge advantage relative to NE (6 sacks, tied for 25th). And the Eagles feature CBs Asante Samuel and Nmandi Asomugha, widely considered to be the most talented tandem in football.

    Here's the surprise ending.

    Opponents passer rating: Eagles 106.7 (32nd) NE 91.0 (20th)

    TDs allowed: Eagles 10 (32nd) NE 7 (T 10th)

    Interceptions: Eagles 2 (24th) NE 7 (T 3rd).​

    The Eagles have the talent and the pass rush that the Patriots lack yet the results are demonstrably worse in the most important areas.

    (By the way, old friend Asante Samuel was brutal last week, giving up an easy TD to Josh Morgan and getting run over by Frank Gore for the game winning TD. This prompted a memorable (and ironic) quote from none other than Deion Sanders: "If you can't cover, you have to tackle. If you can't tackle, you have to cover. But you can't not do both." Who still misses Asante?)

    One other quick note - guess who has the 31st ranked pass defense with 1343 yards allowed. That would be the consensus best team in the league Green Bay Packers. What do they have in common with NE? They're just about always ahead.

    In today's NFL, the rules are stacked against the defense. The heightened protections for QBs and "defenseless" receivers have clearly exacerbated the situation. Most teams are having trouble playing pass defense.

    Things aren't always as simple as they appear. Recognizing that pass defense is definitely an area the 2011 Patriots must improve, I'm not all that convinced that the situation is as dire as many here believe.
  3. Patriots Nation NY

    Patriots Nation NY Banned

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    Eye test says they are horrible .. :(
  4. SONS_OF_BELICHICK

    SONS_OF_BELICHICK Rookie

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    stats are for losers.......the only important numbers are in the W category....


    Lets go Pats......time to stick it to Gang Green

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  5. Horace's Ivories

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    Re: Pep Johnson "more than pleased" with the pass rush

    some pretty funny comments to the article
  6. PATSYLICIOUS

    PATSYLICIOUS Rookie

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    I'm a homer and I believe in this defense, but the pass defense is awful right now. Have we held any QB's to under 300 yards yet? We haven't even faced any elite QB's aside from Rivers.

    The good news is that it's better to have a bad pass defense than to have a bad run defense. If you can stop the run, you always have a shot in this league. The pass D will hopefully improve with the return of AH/Dowling/Bodden and some more seasoning.
  7. Shockt327

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    Re: Pep Johnson "more than pleased" with the pass rush

    Sorry, but I'm totally not seeing it. Even if they aren't getting a sack, when I look at guys like Freeny or even Trent Cole -- there is a certain relentless pursuit; even on plays where it looks like, the latter, is simply playing contain. We need guys who can collapse the pocket. We don't have it.
  8. BSR

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    Even if you don't think its the worst its still pretty bad. Hopefully they can improve.
  9. D-Money

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    Its bad!!!Dont give me stats.The eagles will improve.I am worry about this team improving from game to game.
  10. Deus Irae

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    Re: Pep Johnson "more than pleased" with the pass rush

    The pass defense has been awful, and receivers have been getting burned deep plenty, meaning QBs have time in the pocket and are dropping more than 3 steps on plenty of occasions.

    Instead of investing foolish energy into pretending everyone is seeing something that's not actually happening, the homers should be spending their energy being happy that the team is 3-1 despite the poor play of the defense, and hoping for significant improvement over the course of the year instead of the sort of window dressing we saw in 2010.

    Last year apparently wasn't enough for some of you to figure it out.
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2011
  11. D-Money

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    I for once wanna see one of our CBs turn their backs and see the damn football.They have poor technique.
  12. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Pep Johnson "more than pleased" with the pass rush

    Oh, that terrible 14-2 team that was 6th in scoring defense for the last half of the year.
    We need to improve from last year if we want to win the conference, but let's now make believe that we were awful last year.

    BTW, I believe that if the playoffs began today, the patriots would be favored to win the conference by many; others would choose the ravens. My point that this team is close to being the best, right now. If we improve during the year, we will be strongly favored to win the conference.

  13. Mountain_Commando

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    Wow, those are some thought provoking points. Good post.
  14. Brady_to_Moss

    Brady_to_Moss Revis Island is here PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Bend but don't break
  15. jsull87

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    This is a tremendous post and puts our Defense in harsh perspective. We are not the Ravens... but we are not the worst D in the league. I should copy and paste this every time someone goes on about pass yards given up.
  16. Sciz

    Sciz PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Andre Carter wasn't lying when he said the DL was "almost there." A little bit of improvement in the back end could do wonders for that line's production.
  17. D-Money

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    They sure play like the worse in the league.They give up huge plays in the passing game.I havent seen anything yet to make me think they are improving.
  18. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Pep Johnson "more than pleased" with the pass rush

    Did you really crack out the scoring defense from last year as your argument?

    Seriously?


    Dude, the team scrapped last year's defense, got rid of 2 of 3 starting safeties, brought in a bunch of 4-3 pass rushers, and drafted yet another cornerback. You can pretend that last year's defense was something other than fool's gold if you want to, but Belichick, and a lot of others, knew better.
  19. Patriot Missile

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    They are allowing 139 yds per game against the run. Teams are using the run to set up the pass against them which puts Samuel and Aso at a disadvantage while committing to run support. Those LB's are not very good and either are there guys in the middle of the line. What I will agree with is sacks are sometimes an inflated stat. Many here are driven to them like flys on $^&*. Philly does lead the league with 15 sacks which isn't saying much considering the amount of points and yards allowed +wins so far. You would figure with 15 sacks you would have more than 2 forced fumbles?

    Wilfork has as many INTS as their whole team for whatever reason those sacks aren't equating to turnovers or stopping drives. While our crap defense that can't sack the QB has 7 ints which completely turned the tide back to our favor are a very good 3-1.

    As many have stated maybe defenses can't evolve fast enough to completely stop opposing offenses. Might be true but at the end of the day as long as you outscore the other team and win the game your defense did enough to win the game.
  20. ausbacker

    ausbacker Brady > Manning. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Everything that people queried about the Eagles defense (and offense for that matter) has become endemic and problematic through a quarter of the season. It certainly gives you hope that despite the injuries and problems with performances of the defensive backs, there is hope that the Pats D will come good at some point this season.

    I wanted to see one thing on the weekend and the Pats D shutdown McFadden.
  21. Deus Irae

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    Philly is also playing a lot of zone in the secondary, and that's not what Aso does, since he's a man coverage DB. That's caused a lot of problems.
  22. Patriot Missile

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    I wanted the same thing. Limiting Mcfadden to 75 yards on the ground was huge for this defense. Blah blah blah total yards. Some of these fans are the most depressed people on the planet. You would figure they might be a little closer from stepping off the ledge after last Sundays win?
  23. Patriot Missile

    Patriot Missile Rookie

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    On point right there. Why spend all that money for the best CB in the league and not garner his strengths? Very familiar tale over here as McCourty looked a little more like his old self in zone as opposed to Man.
  24. ayatollah

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    i want a sip of what some of you are drinking. With that said, its only 4 games, anything is possible.
  25. Deus Irae

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  26. ausbacker

    ausbacker Brady > Manning. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It was reasonable to suggest that McFadden is the Raiders best player and the reason the offense goes. The Patriots limited his influence to 1 big run and contained him for the rest of the game. Apart from the junktime drive by Campbell (which I was disgusted with and ruined a more than decent defensive performance), forcing Campbell to win the game for the Raiders was exactly what the Patriots needed to do, and they did it perfectly.

    It's funny the more I complain about the Patriots defense the better they seem to be getting. Weird.
  27. Patriot Missile

    Patriot Missile Rookie

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    In a heart beat.:)
  28. Observer

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    Looks like the Philly defense is pretty bad too. The thing that people are concerned about is not that our defense is in such dire straits that it is the worst in the league etc. but that the situation is just as dire as it was last year.

    Satisfactory performance for most NE fans is equal to "capable of winning the superbowl". We know last year's defense was not and all indications are that this year is not better than the last. That is the main thing people are concerned about. Not whether we have two dozen sacks or whatever but rather can the defense step up in crunch time? Giving up major passing yardage throughout all games does little to convince that they will get going when the going gets tough.

    As you point out, the Eagles defense is worse than ours; so why compare to them? Clearly nobody should be using them as a barometer and I don't think anyone has. Looks like they got the pass rush right but clearly they have got plenty of other stuff wrong. Similarly we have done many things right but pass defense is not one of them. Whether or not the eagles have bad pass defense is irrelevant.
  29. Patriot Missile

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    So do we have to use Baltimore as the gold standard? It seems there are about 5 decent defenses out there and a lot of crummy ones.
  30. Observer

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    If you must have a gold standard, then sure, pick whichever you like. Even if you were to pick a gold standard, it would most likely not be the Patriots. My point is that there need not be a gold standard, we can evaluate our defense on its own merits.

    Do they do a good job stopping running plays? Yes. No complaints.

    Do they do a good job in the red zone? Decent. Not too much of a concern.

    Do they do a good job stopping passing plays? No. There is much room for improvement.
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