Our Draft

[lostjumper]

Jesus. Like they've never gotten Brady some weapons. THAT is frigging daft.

Graham. Watson. Dillon. Branch. Caldwell.

Sorry, but I disagree that RB was the Pats GREATEST need moving forward.

Uh, did you watch the Pats-Bronco's playoff game last year? The broncos defense, didn't respect the run at all. They said as much after the game. They blitzed and pounded Brady all game, and he definitely could haev used some more weapons.

p.s. Caldwell is one of our great offensive weapons? It must be a top secret one, because I've never seen that much offense from him. Dillon had 700 yardws last year, and is really getting beat up. Graham is probably the best blocking tight-end in the league, but has absolutely no hands when it comes to catching. Watson has great potential, and everyone, included myself expects great things from him, but he hasn't shown it yet. last year wasn't a great yaer for him statistically. So that leaves branch, and heck of a wide receiver. So, yeah, Brady has lots of weapons right now.

 

[DaBruinz]

Perhaps. But that's been their method since they got here and you can't argue with the results. Of course, some FA aquisitions miss (Brown), but it happens to the best.

Even if we DID draft prospects for LB, they probably would have little impact next year, or if they did, it would probably be Beisel-esque, given the learning curve.

A day 2 LB prospect to develop would have been fine. It doesn't change the fact that relying on others to develop LBs who we could bring in has caused the pool to dry up rather quickly.

Samuel, Hobbs, Gay, Warfield, Scott, Andrews, Harrison (PUP), Wilson, Jones , Scott/Sanders, Hawkins, Mitchell


Who knows how that's going to shake up. Either way, it was a 7th round pick ... probably not going to get a lasting player, regardless of position.

You're right. But you could have gotten a guy who you could have started to develop at the ILB position that would help you 2 years down the line. If he doesn't, it was a 7th rounder.

Um, OK. Hochstein started in the Super Bowl against one of the best DL's in the league. Of course I wouldn't want him at a starter, but obviously the staff feels fine with him as a backup. This also speaks well to Koppen's injury status.

Also, the entire OL sucked at run blocking last year (Dillon sucked, too).

Jack - Why don't you continue to ignore FACTS. Hochstein was at GUARD, not Center. BIG DIFFERENCE between the two positions. The center has to be able to call out the blocking assignments.

Hmm.. if the entire OL sucked at run-blocking, how was it that Patrick Pass ran for over 4.5 YPC? The line blocked VERY well untill Koppen went down. Even with Kaczur at LT.

You seem to have an issue with dealing with facts. Dillon "sucked" because he played injured and wasn't able to cut to his left. That's been a well reported fact since the end of the season.

Or a combination of both. We shouldn't waste a roster spot on Klecko.

Well, if Klecko can win a spot, let him try and win a spot. I have no issue with that if he replaces Izzo or Don Davis or someone like that.

Is it really a HUGE assumption? I'm saying, what if it does happen? We need to have a better backup and begin planning for the future. I think a running back-by-committee approach is in store in 2006, until Maroney is ready to start.

Ok. I think that the RB by committee idea doesn't cut it. Not when you are paying your starting RB over 5 million.

 

[DaBruinz]

Uh, did you watch the Pats-Bronco's playoff game last year? The broncos defense, didn't respect the run at all. They said as much after the game. They blitzed and pounded Brady all game, and he definitely could haev used some more weapons.

p.s. Caldwell is one of our great offensive weapons? It must be a top secret one, because I've never seen that much offense from him. Dillon had 700 yardws last year, and is really getting beat up. Graham is probably the best blocking tight-end in the league, but has absolutely no hands when it comes to catching. Watson has great potential, and everyone, included myself expects great things from him, but he hasn't shown it yet. last year wasn't a great yaer for him statistically. So that leaves branch, and heck of a wide receiver. So, yeah, Brady has lots of weapons right now.

Obviously, you haven't watched Graham or Caldwell. BTW, I never said that Caldwell was a GREAT weapon. I said he was a weapon. Period.

BTW, Graham has been a very good receiver the last 2 years. Don't know what rock you were under, but that's fact.

 

[DaBruinz]

You don't? I do. Dillon/Faulk are the only options heading into the draft. Now they have a horse that should be their franchise back for the next 5-7 years.

They have a ton of DB's, and do have young LB's in Claridge and Banta-Cain. Colvin is still young as is our entire D-Line.

RB was the only position that the Pats had significant age and no answers for in regards to the future.

Well, jacky, you proved during your 1st two weeks that you didn't think much, so forgive me if I don't value your opinion.

BTW, its amazing at the assumptions people are making about Maroney already.

BTW, TBC hasn't done much and hasn't earned a starting spot, in case you missed it.

 

[Jacky Roberts]

Obviously, you haven't watched Graham or Caldwell. BTW, I never said that Caldwell was a GREAT weapon. I said he was a weapon. Period.

BTW, Graham has been a very good receiver the last 2 years. Don't know what rock you were under, but that's fact.

Graham has shown potential to be a weapon, but considering where they drafted him, he is a disappointment/bust at this point. You cannot rely on him to do a damn thing.

Caldwell may not even make this team, so I wouldn't consider him a big time weapon, either. I'd say either Caldwell or Bethel get cut this summer.

 

[DaBruinz]

No, none of the other players on offense are bona fide weapons, except Branch (and I think Watson will be).

*ROFLMAO* Shows that you totally do not understand the Patriots offense.

Their offense is predicated on spreading the ball around and making all of the receivers weapons. That way, defenses can't key in on one person because the others will burn them. I would think that if you've been watching the Patriots for the last 4 years, you'd know that.

 

[Jacky Roberts]

*ROFLMAO* Shows that you totally do not understand the Patriots offense.

Their offense is predicated on spreading the ball around and making all of the receivers weapons. That way, defenses can't key in on one person because the others will burn them. I would think that if you've been watching the Patriots for the last 4 years, you'd know that.

So that would make Hochstein a weapon since he caught a TD pass, right?

 

[DaBruinz]

Graham has shown potential to be a weapon, but considering where they drafted him, he is a disappointment/bust at this point. You cannot rely on him to do a damn thing.

Caldwell may not even make this team, so I wouldn't consider him a big time weapon, either. I'd say either Caldwell or Bethel get cut this summer.

Jacky - Thank you for proving my point about your opinion.

If you consider Graham a bust, you are absolutely CLUELESS about Football. Graham has numbers just as good as Pro-Bowler Bubba Frank. The problem is that Graham gets called on to be a BLOCKER more because of the issues the Patriots have had at OT the last 3 years. You do realize that each of the last 3 years, the Pats have used 4 OTs, right.

As for Caldwell, the guy won a starting job with the Chargers before he tore his ACL. That should tell you something. If it doesn't, that's your problem. Also, why don't you ignore that the Chargers use a 2WR, 2RB,TE set, primarily, and rarely put multi-WR sets on the field because they have Gates, Tomlinson, Parker, and McCardell.

 

[skri65]

You don't? I do. Dillon/Faulk are the only options heading into the draft. Now they have a horse that should be their franchise back for the next 5-7 years.

They have a ton of DB's, and do have young LB's in Claridge and Banta-Cain. Colvin is still young as is our entire D-Line.

RB was the only position that the Pats had significant age and no answers for in regards to the future.

I completely agree with Jacky here.

Also, what if come next year Dillon has completey lost his step and there are no solid RB replacements in the draft? The RB class is fabulous this year, and BB took advantage of this by taking Maroney. In the past, BB has taken LB's from other teams and has developed them into stars. The same can't be said for RBs.

Linebackers take time to develop, especially in an offense such as ours. I have no problem in taking unproven LB's (i.e. vrabel) from other teams and slowly developing them under our system until they become great. Especially since we DO have young LBs to hopefully grow and develop into future stars. Keep in mind that even Bruschi was a ST'er with Parcells.

We don't have ANY RB depth. I think it was a very smart pick by BB to secure our RB position for many many years to come. Maroney will be a star. LB positions can be found via next years draft and via trades or free agent pickups. More importantly, they can be found in the unproven LB's we have already in our system.

 

[skri65]

For the record, I do think Graham and Caldwell are weapons. Graham has already proven himself and Caldwell is a very good #3 WR, but someone who could turn out to be a #2.

 

[JackBauer]

A day 2 LB prospect to develop would have been fine. It doesn't change the fact that relying on others to develop LBs who we could bring in has caused the pool to dry up rather quickly.

Mincey would be that prospect.

Jack - Why don't you continue to ignore FACTS. Hochstein was at GUARD, not Center. BIG DIFFERENCE between the two positions. The center has to be able to call out the blocking assignments.

I stand corrected.

Hmm.. if the entire OL sucked at run-blocking, how was it that Patrick Pass ran for over 4.5 YPC? The line blocked VERY well untill Koppen went down. Even with Kaczur at LT.

You must be the only person who thinks so. I thought the run-blocking left something to be desired, especially along the right side of the line. Again, the question is whether backup C was a need. Clearly, as we can see, it wasn't.

You seem to have an issue with dealing with facts. Dillon "sucked" because he played injured and wasn't able to cut to his left. That's been a well reported fact since the end of the season.

I'm well aware of that and never claimed otherwise.

Ok. I think that the RB by committee idea doesn't cut it. Not when you are paying your starting RB over 5 million.

It's not necessarily by design, but by choice. JMO, but I think Dillon is close to done.

 

[DaBruinz]

So that would make Hochstein a weapon since he caught a TD pass, right?

Well, considering that Hochstein didn't catch a TD pass, NO. It wouldn't make him a weapon.

Tom Ashworth could have been considered a weapoin since he was a former TE who lined up at FB and was wide open as the 3rd or 4th option on that play.

Do you know the definition of WEAPON? Any object that can be used to cause harm to another person. In the case of Football, the weapons would be any player lined up at QB, TE, WR, and RB.

 

[JackBauer]

Do you know the definition of WEAPON? Any object that can be used to cause harm to another person. In the case of Football, the weapons would be any player lined up at QB, TE, WR, and RB.

Sorry, you're clearly misunderstanding the points being made, here, if that's what you use as a definition.

 

[Jacky Roberts]

Well, considering that Hochstein didn't catch a TD pass, NO. It wouldn't make him a weapon.

Tom Ashworth could have been considered a weapoin since he was a former TE who lined up at FB and was wide open as the 3rd or 4th option on that play.

Do you know the definition of WEAPON? Any object that can be used to cause harm to another person. In the case of Football, the weapons would be any player lined up at QB, TE, WR, and RB.

I guess according to you is anyone with a Patriots helmet on who happens to be on the field, right? So Ashworth is a weapon?

Branch is a big time threat. Until today, he was the only legitimate one besides Brady.

If your definition of weapon is so broad, than I would say every team has those weapons and teams like Indy had more of them until this draft.

ps- Is Evans a weapon?

 

[mgteich]

I agree. I guess we should interpret this that bb is satisfied with Wright, rather than he didn't draft a NT.

If I could have changed any pick in the draft, I would have liked to have seen us take Gabe Watson with our first pick in the 4th, instead of Mills. Watson went with the next pick, and I believe he would give us a solid backup at that position and could step in if needed. Now we are pretty think at back up NT, and we how important the NG is to the Pats D.

Liked the O'Callaghan pick a lot.

 

[JackBauer]

*ROFLMAO* Shows that you totally do not understand the Patriots offense.

Spare me that condescension, thanks.

Their offense is predicated on spreading the ball around and making all of the receivers weapons. That way, defenses can't key in on one person because the others will burn them. I would think that if you've been watching the Patriots for the last 4 years, you'd know that.

And that somehow precludes them from trying to pick up impact players? If that's the case, why make an offer to Derrick Mason?

 

[DaBruinz]

Mincey would be that prospect.

You must be the only person who thinks so. I thought the run-blocking left something to be desired, especially along the right side of the line. Again, the question is whether backup C was a need. Clearly, as we can see, it wasn't.

You obviously haven't been around to reach much of the pre-draft threads. MANY people felt the Pats needed to draft a center because of the potential of Koppen's injury keeping him from being ready for the start of the season and the further possibility that Koppen could be leaving as a UFA at the end of the season.

I'm well aware of that and never claimed otherwise.

No. All you did was just state that Dillon sucked. Period. No explanation or anything else.

It's not necessarily by design, but by choice. JMO, but I think Dillon is close to done.

Well, that is your opinion. However, given that the Pats have so much cap space this year, its unlikely that the Pats wouldn't have picked up Dillon's option if Dillon was close to done.

 

[skri65]

Dabruinz,

I respect your opinions. But our defense was in the 20's strictly due to injuries. Any team with that many injuries would have dropped into the 20's in D.

Look at our defense in the 2'nd half of the season. Our D, even WITH the numerous secondary injuries, was nearly unstoppable. True, we no longer have a star in Mcginest. But if we move Vrabel outside and include Beisel in the center and with the continuing maturity of TBC, Claridge and crew (plus any possibly free agent pickups) our defense will still be very stout.

 

[DaBruinz]

Spare me that condescension, thanks.



And that somehow precludes them from trying to pick up impact players? If that's the case, why make an offer to Derrick Mason?

There is no reason to spare you what you've earned.

BTW, one does not preclude the other. And I never implied that it did. Mason would have been another weapon on the offense.

 

[JackBauer]

You obviously haven't been around to reach much of the pre-draft threads. MANY people felt the Pats needed to draft a center because of the potential of Koppen's injury keeping him from being ready for the start of the season and the further possibility that Koppen could be leaving as a UFA at the end of the season.

Actually, I have.

And the draft would indicate that Koppen's recovery is progressing as expected.

No. All you did was just state that Dillon sucked. Period. No explanation or anything else.

He did suck last year. Sorry, I should have clarified.