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OT: Shooting at Chiefs Parade


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I will say something that will sound extremely insensitive. As a Canadian I stopped feeling sorry about Americans pretending to feel sorry and shocked about these repetitive and senseless events of gun violence many many years ago because I realized they don't really care. They just pretend to care.

Same cycle every single ****ing time:

1) Some ******* gets access to guns way too easily and goes on a killing spree
2) People act outraged and shocked with some crying thrown in
3) Politicians come out with self serving PR statements about the importance of mental health or gun control
4) One side of the population eats up the excuses or worse is ok with it as long as they get to carry around automatic weapons (*for hunting* or *self defense*)
5) The other side of the population is too cowardly to meaningfully act
6) Gun lobby comes out in full force threatening politicans talking about regulation of said weapons so that gun companies can keep printing money while blaming said mental health
7) A few days later everybody moves on
8) Rinse and repeat.

It was two kids who apparently were "disrespected". Because they are juveniles nobody will release their information. I'm sure they were high, and already have rap sheets a mile long, have been arrested multiple times, and have been released without bail into what has become a lawless society in all of America's inner cities. The number of laws they have already broke should tell you that passing another law will do nothing to stop this. This has nothing to do with mental health or the ease of getting a gun. They were minors so it is already illegal for them to possess a gun.

You want gun control, here it is, if you commit a crime with a gun, you get 20 years in prison not matter what! No parole, no lesser charge, no bail. Go straight to jail for the next 20 years.
 
When people are allowed to wander around with guns withouy any training and license...this is what happens. Glad MA has sane gun laws.
 
I will say something that will sound extremely insensitive. As a Canadian I stopped feeling sorry about Americans pretending to feel sorry and shocked about these repetitive and senseless events of gun violence many many years ago because I realized they don't really care. They just pretend to care.

Same cycle every single ****ing time:

1) Some ******* gets access to guns way too easily and goes on a killing spree
2) People act outraged and shocked with some crying thrown in
3) Politicians come out with self serving PR statements about the importance of mental health or gun control
4) One side of the population eats up the excuses or worse is ok with it as long as they get to carry around automatic weapons (*for hunting* or *self defense*)
5) The other side of the population is too cowardly to meaningfully act
6) Gun lobby comes out in full force threatening politicans talking about regulation of said weapons so that gun companies can keep printing money while blaming said mental health
7) A few days later everybody moves on
8) Rinse and repeat.
Your entire point goes out the window when you consider the fact that you're Canadian and therefore nobody cares about your opinion lol
 
When people are allowed to wander around with guns withouy any training and license...this is what happens. Glad MA has sane gun laws.
Millions of Americans carry guns every day. I'd bet you've walked by thousands in your life and were never none the wiser. Yes, even in MA. Yet here you are, alive and permitted to have bad opinions. It's crazy that it's almost like the tool isn't an issue but human nature.

We devalue human life and rip babies from their mothers' wombs in the name of personal freedom. We allow pornography and the dehumanization of women and men and reduce each other to objects of masturbation. We tell people hey, if you're feeling bad, you should be able to go to a doctor and volunteer yourself to be killed. We devalue the worth of refugees and reduce them to nothing more than the status of their citizenship. We make ourselves out to be God and worthy of putting others to death and we even don't do it soon enough, because well, my tax dollars! And we wonder why people don't value human life?

People don't want to accept it but it's staring at you in the face. The nation for the most part has abandoned God and because of this we are more broken and immoral than ever. That is a problem that won't get fixed by making big scary shooty guns with adjustable stocks illegal.

But I understand. It's harder to say "I'm not immoral, broken, and need the help of God" than it is to say "It's the plastic thing's fault!"
 
Millions of Americans carry guns every day. I'd bet you've walked by thousands in your life and were never none the wiser. Yes, even in MA. Yet here you are, alive and permitted to have bad opinions. It's crazy that it's almost like the tool isn't an issue but human nature.

We devalue human life and rip babies from their mothers' wombs in the name of personal freedom. We allow pornography and the dehumanization of women and men and reduce each other to objects of masturbation. We tell people hey, if you're feeling bad, you should be able to go to a doctor and volunteer yourself to be killed. We devalue the worth of refugees and reduce them to nothing more than the status of their citizenship. We make ourselves out to be God and worthy of putting others to death and we even don't do it soon enough, because well, my tax dollars! And we wonder why people don't value human life?

People don't want to accept it but it's staring at you in the face. The nation for the most part has abandoned God and because of this we are more broken and immoral than ever. That is a problem that won't get fixed by making big scary shooty guns with adjustable stocks illegal.

But I understand. It's harder to say "I'm not immoral, broken, and need the help of God" than it is to say "It's the plastic thing's fault!"
I don't think you're wrong, so let me lead with that.

I think it's 100% the devaluation of human life, and a big slice of that is mental health. Our system is broken, and I am not talking about government. We treat mentally ill with disdain. Stay away from her, she'd batshit crazy. What out for that guy, he's nuts. I wouldn't leave my kids alone with him. I wouldn't let that guy near my wife alone. We've all heard those statements. We ostracize those that need the most help and discard them aside. This is by far the deepest problem in out society.

To you point, I believe a lack of godliness is 100% a problem, but I am not going to blame one side or the other, but both. The left has worked tirelessly to remove God from our schools and society, under a banner of separation of church and state. The right, on the other hand, has used religion as a method of control for a millennia. Both sides have used this so further their agenda since the dawn of time.

Our country was founded on Christian beliefs. I believe, under that umbrella, there's room for all belief systems and religions. These rights are protected:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
I don't have to like your religion, you don't have to like mine, and we don't have to like the guy's down the street lack thereof, but we all have the right to think and believe how we want.

I digress.

To your point, the lack of caring for our fellow man, the lack of empathy and utter disregard for human life is the root of the problem. It's also the hardest fix. There's already laws against killing someone. Passing more laws and outlawing certain types of guns because Hollywood has made them scary is a bandaid on a severed limb. It's not going to help. It helps those who feel that we must do something feel like something's been accomplished. There, that's done. We passed a law. Meanwhile, the problem still exists. We have to fix society, and no one wants to hear that. They'd rather pass laws and talk in platitudes instead of making real change.

It's daunting. I don't know how we fix it, but it's 100% broken.
 
I will say something that will sound extremely insensitive. As a Canadian I stopped feeling sorry about Americans pretending to feel sorry and shocked about these repetitive and senseless events of gun violence many many years ago because I realized they don't really care. They just pretend to care.

Same cycle every single ****ing time:

1) Some ******* gets access to guns way too easily and goes on a killing spree
2) People act outraged and shocked with some crying thrown in
3) Politicians come out with self serving PR statements about the importance of mental health or gun control
4) One side of the population eats up the excuses or worse is ok with it as long as they get to carry around automatic weapons (*for hunting* or *self defense*)
5) The other side of the population is too cowardly to meaningfully act
6) Gun lobby comes out in full force threatening politicans talking about regulation of said weapons so that gun companies can keep printing money while blaming said mental health
7) A few days later everybody moves on
8) Rinse and repeat.
You're Canadian, well that explains a lot. As an American I typically don't worry about others feeling sorry for us. So no reason to feel bad about being insensitive.

I question your understanding of guns and our gun laws. I also often find those that scream for banning guns have zero understanding of guns. Have never been around one. There is a video where a guy sets up a table in a sidewalk with several shotguns and an AR on one side and then a round that each weapon would fire in the other side, lined up smallest to largest. It was comical to watch how many people when asked to pick the "deadliest" gun on the table picked the AR and then asked to match the round the AR would fire pick the largest round on the table, which was a 30-06. No one picked the 30-06 rifle because it had a nice wooden stock and looked like Grandpa's hunting rifle.

To your points. I agree with the basis of most. But who is carrying automatic weapons around? Outside of those with special firearms licenses, no law abiding citizen is walking around with automatic weapons.

As defiant and Steve pointed out it's far more complex than guns. Lack of institutionalizing those that are insane, lack of help for those that are mentally ill, adopting laws/policies that encourage drug and alcohol abuse among those with less severe mental illness leading to homelessness, addiction and ultimately violence. Lack of family structure in many homes, young males with bad or no male role models, again passing laws/policies to excuse violent behavior while simultaneously reducing the consequences of such behavior.

I do not believe in God myself. I would classify myself as agnostic, but I do believe at its core it's a positive. I believe in many of the teachings/values.

Only in the acts of gun violence do we blame the tool. In no other tragic situations do we blame the tool. When someone drives drunk or plows through a crowd of people or uses a box truck full of fertilizer to blow up a building/people do we blame the vehicle or the fertilizer for that matter. When someone uses a knife to attack maiming and killing large groups of people there is no outcry to ban knives.

It's a lazy argument to avoid the real issues. Which is mental health and lack of enforcement of laws on the books. I would also argue no sane person murders another person.

Gun laws don't work, most cities in the US have very restrictive gun laws, yet have the most gun violence - typically involving a pistol. And the overwhelming of those are from illegal weapons or illegally obtained weapons. And to the point of easily gaining access to guns. Yes that is true and I would say the tragic shootings that typically garner media attention often involve legally obtained guns (In the KC shooting it's unlikely that will be the case).

However, that makes up a fraction of the gun violence in the US. The majority of the gun violence is in the cities, by gang members often by very young kids with ghost guns or stolen guns.

Ghosts guns are smuggled into the US from places like the Philippines. They have been essentially refurbished for a lack of a better term, often resemble a Glock 9 and have no way of being traced, distributed throughout the US by gangs and cartels. So again, adding additional, often unconstitutional gun laws will not stop this problem.

So my overall point is it's lazy thinking to sum up gun violence in the US to guns are bad.
 
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It was two kids who apparently were "disrespected". Because they are juveniles nobody will release their information. I'm sure they were high, and already have rap sheets a mile long, have been arrested multiple times, and have been released without bail into what has become a lawless society in all of America's inner cities. The number of laws they have already broke should tell you that passing another law will do nothing to stop this. This has nothing to do with mental health or the ease of getting a gun. They were minors so it is already illegal for them to possess a gun.
+1 +1 +1

Anyone want real change? Ok let’s start with throwing - and keeping - habitual offenders in jail mixed with a dash of enforcing our own borders.

The above will do far, far more to stop gun violence in this nation than eliminating the rights of law abiding citizens.
 
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Our country was founded on Christian beliefs. I believe, under that umbrella, there's room for all belief systems and religions.

Historical accuracy: the country was founded with high influence of Christian values because that's where the founders came from. Most of the "founding fathers" were either atheists, agnostics, or formed their own set of Christian beliefs that suited their own values. Very few of them were devout to the beliefs of their original church. In some ways, we owe this unique democracy on their courage to be independent. They certainly didn't want to live "under the umbrella" of any religion.

Jefferson's Bible is a great example: he tossed out angry, punitive, and culturally inappropriate material and retained the parts that reinforced a positive image of spirit, because that's the world he wanted to live in and the God he wanted to believe in. To his credit, he didn't try to get everyone else to believe what he did.

And that's been central to US history ever since: people reforming what Christianity is in order to suit their agenda. Like all belief systems, the trick is to get everyone to believe the promoted beliefs are the original ones, and therefore "right. " And often, with the greatest of irony, to get the government to enforce those beliefs on everyone else through laws.

This pattern happens in all countries with a dominant religion, to a greater or lesser extent. What the religion is doesn't seem to matter, except in the methods used.

And to be clear, I'm writing this as historical and sociological commentary, to make conversation with people who value education, intellect, inquiry, curiosity, and differences of viewpoint.
 
Historical accuracy: the country was founded with high influence of Christian values because that's where the founders came from. Most of the "founding fathers" were either atheists, agnostics, or formed their own set of Christian beliefs that suited their own values. Very few of them were devout to the beliefs of their original church. In some ways, we owe this unique democracy on their courage to be independent. They certainly didn't want to live "under the umbrella" of any religion.

Jefferson's Bible is a great example: he tossed out angry, punitive, and culturally inappropriate material and retained the parts that reinforced a positive image of spirit, because that's the world he wanted to live in and the God he wanted to believe in. To his credit, he didn't try to get everyone else to believe what he did.

And that's been central to US history ever since: people reforming what Christianity is in order to suit their agenda. Like all belief systems, the trick is to get everyone to believe the promoted beliefs are the original ones, and therefore "right. " And often, with the greatest of irony, to get the government to enforce those beliefs on everyone else through laws.

This pattern happens in all countries with a dominant religion, to a greater or lesser extent. What the religion is doesn't seem to matter, except in the methods used.

And to be clear, I'm writing this as historical and sociological commentary, to make conversation with people who value education, intellect, inquiry, curiosity, and differences of viewpoint.
Perhaps the umbrella term I used is incorrect, but your post certainly fits into what I was saying, at least what I was trying to say.
 
I will say something that will sound extremely insensitive. As a Canadian I stopped feeling sorry about Americans pretending to feel sorry and shocked about these repetitive and senseless events of gun violence many many years ago because I realized they don't really care. They just pretend to care.

Same cycle every single ****ing time:

1) Some ******* gets access to guns way too easily and goes on a killing spree
2) People act outraged and shocked with some crying thrown in
3) Politicians come out with self serving PR statements about the importance of mental health or gun control
4) One side of the population eats up the excuses or worse is ok with it as long as they get to carry around automatic weapons (*for hunting* or *self defense*)
5) The other side of the population is too cowardly to meaningfully act
6) Gun lobby comes out in full force threatening politicans talking about regulation of said weapons so that gun companies can keep printing money while blaming said mental health
7) A few days later everybody moves on
8) Rinse and repeat.
As an American, I don’t really give a rats ass about your feelings towards us or your lecture. Your rights up there are disappearing year by year, so enjoy that.

to another point, those AR pistols were illegally obtained, I’d bet money on it. As a gun owner, start with the criminals and illegal weapons. I’m all for mental health red flag laws and even a deeper background check. If I can’t wait a couple of weeks, then I probably don’t need it.
 
It was two kids who apparently were "disrespected". Because they are juveniles nobody will release their information. I'm sure they were high, and already have rap sheets a mile long, have been arrested multiple times, and have been released without bail into what has become a lawless society in all of America's inner cities. The number of laws they have already broke should tell you that passing another law will do nothing to stop this. This has nothing to do with mental health or the ease of getting a gun. They were minors so it is already illegal for them to possess a gun.

You want gun control, here it is, if you commit a crime with a gun, you get 20 years in prison not matter what! No parole, no lesser charge, no bail. Go straight to jail for the next 20 years.
...should get it for selling guns illegally too. A gun is fine until someone's greed turns it into an illegal business. What do these sellers think is going to happen with those guns they're selling?
 
Millions of Americans carry guns every day. I'd bet you've walked by thousands in your life and were never none the wiser. Yes, even in MA. Yet here you are, alive and permitted to have bad opinions. It's crazy that it's almost like the tool isn't an issue but human nature.

We devalue human life and rip babies from their mothers' wombs in the name of personal freedom. We allow pornography and the dehumanization of women and men and reduce each other to objects of masturbation. We tell people hey, if you're feeling bad, you should be able to go to a doctor and volunteer yourself to be killed. We devalue the worth of refugees and reduce them to nothing more than the status of their citizenship. We make ourselves out to be God and worthy of putting others to death and we even don't do it soon enough, because well, my tax dollars! And we wonder why people don't value human life?

People don't want to accept it but it's staring at you in the face. The nation for the most part has abandoned God and because of this we are more broken and immoral than ever. That is a problem that won't get fixed by making big scary shooty guns with adjustable stocks illegal.

But I understand. It's harder to say "I'm not immoral, broken, and need the help of God" than it is to say "It's the plastic thing's fault!"
There is a reason that we have more gun deaths in states with lax gun laws. Funny, these states have a lot of those god people too. Maybe it's the belief in Godthat is leading to gun violence.

Less God = less gun violence, that is the facts
 
They are banning "assault" style rifles here in Colorado soon. Also all gun owners will be required by law to have liability insurance.
Fun times
Once again little or no national outrage. If this was a Boston or Philadelphia sports event you bet this would top the news for weeks.
 
There is a reason that we have more gun deaths in states with lax gun laws. Funny, these states have a lot of those god people too. Maybe it's the belief in Godthat is leading to gun violence.

Less God = less gun violence, that is the facts
Keep that energy when it's time for you to meet Him
 
Keep that energy when it's time for you to meet Him
Funny thing about God people, they like to pick and choose what parts of the religion to follow. You can tell because if God people were serious they would do something about gun violence, but they have nothing but thoughts and prayers.
 
Historical accuracy: the country was founded with high influence of Christian values because that's where the founders came from. Most of the "founding fathers" were either atheists, agnostics, or formed their own set of Christian beliefs that suited their own values. Very few of them were devout to the beliefs of their original church. In some ways, we owe this unique democracy on their courage to be independent. They certainly didn't want to live "under the umbrella" of any religion.

Jefferson's Bible is a great example: he tossed out angry, punitive, and culturally inappropriate material and retained the parts that reinforced a positive image of spirit, because that's the world he wanted to live in and the God he wanted to believe in. To his credit, he didn't try to get everyone else to believe what he did.

And that's been central to US history ever since: people reforming what Christianity is in order to suit their agenda. Like all belief systems, the trick is to get everyone to believe the promoted beliefs are the original ones, and therefore "right. " And often, with the greatest of irony, to get the government to enforce those beliefs on everyone else through laws.

This pattern happens in all countries with a dominant religion, to a greater or lesser extent. What the religion is doesn't seem to matter, except in the methods used.

And to be clear, I'm writing this as historical and sociological commentary, to make conversation with people who value education, intellect, inquiry, curiosity, and differences of viewpoint.
To add to what you were saying the majority of our founding fathers were deists, belief in God based on reason rather than revelation or the teaching of any specific religion, which has no Christian overtones.. the Jefferson Bible pretty much does that.

As we have become polarized with regards to Church/State... unfortunately the lines of demarcation have been blurred to where we are today, you have a Speaker of the House who believes he is "Moses" and there are many followers. Today's focus on politics has two main avenues of thought a secular one and a religious one, which has no basis in our Constitution.
Interestingly our Constitution does not mention a supreme being except in the obligatory "year of our Lord"....
 
Biden keeps letting these illegal law breakers into the country unchecked, these are the consequences.
 
Biden keeps letting these illegal law breakers into the country unchecked, these are the consequences.
Lol, who won't vote on the toughest immigration bill ever passed by a bipartisan group in the senate......hmmmm

Disingenuous isn't just a river in Asia
 
Oh and only nutcase could make a thread on a mass shooting about God and immigrants.

Wtf
 
It was two kids who apparently were "disrespected". They were minors so it is already illegal for them to possess a gun.
Actually, I believe Missouri has no age restriction to own a gun. In fact, they have very few restrictions. Children can own guns in Missouri.
 
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