OT: Larry Johnson wanting Tomlinson money - Like Asante situation wanting Clements $?

[Miguel]

Re: OT: Larry Johnson wanting Tomlinson money - Like Asante situation wanting Clement

Finally, veterans would be for it since this wold free up money for people like Rodney Harrison (I'm talking about Rodney's situation about 5 years ago, not the current one).

In 2003 Rodney Harrison opted not to shop his services around after meeting with the Pats. IMO, he should not be the poster boy for underpaid players.

When teams are paying Derrick Dockery, Leonard Davis, Langston Walker, Daniel Graham the money that they got, I am pretty sure that what the 2007 rookies will get is not preventing veterans from getting paid big dollars.

 

[Miguel]

Re: OT: Larry Johnson wanting Tomlinson money - Like Asante situation wanting Clement

I'd offer the NBA's method.

The NBA guarantees the entire amount of the 3 year contract for 1st round picks. Are you also willing to offer that??

 

[g-fresh]

Re: OT: Larry Johnson wanting Tomlinson money - Like Asante situation wanting Clement

I'd offer the NBA's method. In the NBA, the teams have slots for that second contract, different levels. Almost like a RFA, but a bit different, since the team is allowed to pay their player MORE than any other team can in that slot. Then I would not count this additional amont against the salary cap. This way, I'd reward teams that draft well by allowing them to pay their players more and not be penalized against the cap for paying their own 4th year players a handsome salary. The union would like this because there would be money going to players over and above the cap, presumably. It would also increase competition among teams since you get rewarded for developing players and bringing them along.

Finally, veterans would be for it since this wold free up money for people like Rodney Harrison (I'm talking about Rodney's situation about 5 years ago, not the current one).

The NBA has a soft cap which is why something like this works there. I don't think the NFL owners would ever allow being able to pay someone without it counting against the cap, because what is the point of a cap if it only applies to certain players?

 

[zippo59]

Re: OT: Larry Johnson wanting Tomlinson money - Like Asante situation wanting Clement

I just read something ridiculous on PFT. Joe Thomas will have a bigger contract than LaDainian Tomlinson before he ever sets foot on an NFL field.

 

[Terry Glenn is a cowgirl]

Re: OT: Larry Johnson wanting Tomlinson money - Like Asante situation wanting Clement

I just read something ridiculous on PFT. Joe Thomas will have a bigger contract than LaDainian Tomlinson before he ever sets foot on an NFL field.

Stuff like this happens all of the time, and will continue to happen.

But, it is still shocking...

 

[BB_dynasty]

Re: OT: Larry Johnson wanting Tomlinson money - Like Asante situation wanting Clement

Shocking yes, and it shows how much rookies are overpaid.

 

[zippo59]

Re: OT: Larry Johnson wanting Tomlinson money - Like Asante situation wanting Clement

Stuff like this happens all of the time, and will continue to happen.

But, it is still shocking...

In 2004, as a rookie, Eli Manning was making more than Tom Brady.

F'in ridiculous.

 

[upstater1]

Re: OT: Larry Johnson wanting Tomlinson money - Like Asante situation wanting Clement

In 2003 Rodney Harrison opted not to shop his services around after meeting with the Pats. IMO, he should not be the poster boy for underpaid players.

When teams are paying Derrick Dockery, Leonard Davis, Langston Walker, Daniel Graham the money that they got, I am pretty sure that what the 2007 rookies will get is not preventing veterans from getting paid big dollars.

I'm talking about his second contract. And his first.

 

[upstater1]

Re: OT: Larry Johnson wanting Tomlinson money - Like Asante situation wanting Clement

The NBA guarantees the entire amount of the 3 year contract for 1st round picks. Are you also willing to offer that??

No, I didn't say adopt the NBA's entire salary structure. I said tweak it.

Who cares about rookies anyway? The cap will still be the cap, but now you have to play to get paid.

 

[upstater1]

Re: OT: Larry Johnson wanting Tomlinson money - Like Asante situation wanting Clement

Shocking yes, and it shows how much rookies are overpaid.

+1, this is what I'm talking about. We have a world-wide oil crisis going, and people make it seem as though the NFL salary strcutre is an impossible problem to solve. On the scale of things, it's not. It's easy.

 

[upstater1]

Re: OT: Larry Johnson wanting Tomlinson money - Like Asante situation wanting Clement

The NBA has a soft cap which is why something like this works there. I don't think the NFL owners would ever allow being able to pay someone without it counting against the cap, because what is the point of a cap if it only applies to certain players?

OK, so what's the downside?

The point of the cap is that you don't buy up all the free agents you can and pull a NY Yankees on the rest of the league. With a cap that allows you to sign your own players with a little extra sugar, you ge trewarded for drafting well, AND building continuity, I might add, not to mention building good will among the vets. For every Langston Walker or whoever Miguel pointed out, there are two Rodney Harrisons or Larry Johnsons.

 

[dryheat44]

Re: OT: Larry Johnson wanting Tomlinson money - Like Asante situation wanting Clement

OK, so what's the downside?

The point of the cap is that you don't buy up all the free agents you can and pull a NY Yankees on the rest of the league. With a cap that allows you to sign your own splayers with a little extra sugar, you ge rewarded for drafting well, AND building continuity, I might add, not to mention building good will among the vets. For every Langston Walker or whoever Miguel pointed out, there are two Rodney Harrisons or Larry Johnsons.

There is no problem in the NFL's eyes. They pay the same amount of money regardless of the breakdown. The Player's Association SHOULD have a huge problem with it, and I don't know for the life of me why they stand by idly while players who are not yet in the union get such huge shares of the salary cap at the expense of union members. If I were a member of the local IBEW, and a guy straight out of DeVry named JeMarcus Russell is making double and triple the salary as long-time union members who are named Mark Bulger, Jeff Garcia, or Jon Kitna, I'd be calling for the head of the Union President.

I would guess the current system exists as some sort of kickback for sports agents, because I can't think of any other kind of explanation.

 

[Miguel]

Re: OT: Larry Johnson wanting Tomlinson money - Like Asante situation wanting Clement

For all of the talk about how much rookies get paid, rookies take up a very small percentage of the cap.

The 32 NFL teams have an aggregate adjusted cap total of 3,555,918,023. The 2007 rookie pool is 136,776,000. In other words, the rookie pool is 3.85% of the total cap.

If we figure that each team will start the regular season with an average of 3 players on PUP or IR, there will be around 1,800 NFL players on NFL Rosters on Week 1. There were 255 draft picks. 255 out of 1800 is just over 14%.

In summary, 14% of the players are taking up less than 4% of the cap.

Please note that in 2006 that the cap went up 19.3% while the rookie pool went up 5%. This year the cap went up 6.99% while the rookie pool went up 2.5%. Next year the cap will increase by at least 6.41% while the most that the rookie pool can go up is 5% (I would guess that it will go up 2.5%). One can definitely see a trend in which the rookies are getting a smaller slice of the cap especially since the increases in the rookie pool is definitely capped at 5% and there may be no limit to how much the cap can go up in a year at least according to my understanding of the new CBA.

I have yet to see any evidence in this thread that the reason that there are underpaid veterans is because of overpaid rookies. I see no reason why the NFLPA should agree to lower how much 14% of their members get paid when teams are using the phony LTBE move as much as they are. Why would Rodney Harrison be upset at what Maroney made as a rookie last year when the Pats devoted over $4 million in 2006 cap space in separate LTBE moves??Larry Johnson has to know that the Chiefs instead of using some of their 2006 free cap space on him pushed out over $8 million in cap space to the 2007 cap year.

 

[zarakotas5]

Re: OT: Larry Johnson wanting Tomlinson money - Like Asante situation wanting Clement

Just to set the record straight, the bust list for PSU RBs isn't as long as you imagine. They have had stellar RBs in the NFL, like Franco Harris, Curt Warner, John Cappelletti, Larry Johnson, Lydell Mitchell, etc. The problem is that 3 top draft choices all suffered debilitating knee injuries in their very first years. Blair Thomas, Ki-Jana Carter, Curtis Enis. Now, I did have doubts about Curtis Enis' ability in the pros, but Ki-Jana Carter was an amazing back in college, and his style of play should have translated very, very well into the pros. But I think with the PSU RB busts, so much of that was about injury, more than anything else.

There have also been a host of fullbacks and scatbacks who have done well, such as Matt Suhey, Sam Gash, Richie Anderson, Jon Witman, Kenny Watson, Eddie Drummond, etc.

Maybe the PSU bust theory is around because people tend to empasize the negative over the positive stories.

I appreciate your response, as I tend to think no one reads what I write, but I already agreed with you. I thought I had made my stance known by saying that "I [didn't] agree with that bunk". I'm with you: I was cold on Enis, but what happened to K-J Carter was disappointing as a football fan. I'm also a big fan of PSU "off-backs" a la Gash, for sure.

 

[zarakotas5]

Re: OT: Larry Johnson wanting Tomlinson money - Like Asante situation wanting Clement

The South Carolina Game****s went off half****ed after I shot them with my rifle. When I went to re****, I saw a pea**** signing his John Han**** on Wild Bill Hi****'s hat. Bill looked at me ****eyed, with that ****sure grin for which he's known, and then the ****y cowboy said to me, "A ****s on your house."

Bravo, sir.

 

[Brady'sButtBoy]

Re: OT: Larry Johnson wanting Tomlinson money - Like Asante situation wanting Clement

That's an eye opening post, thanks, Miguel.

In defense of Johnson, he may have just hit his career peak due to the enormous number of carries KC asked of him in 06. The history for nearly every star running back says that after lugging the rock so much in one season they will begin to decline. LJ obviously has been made aware of this and is facing the facts - get paid now or you'll likely never see the big payday.

I usually have little sympathy for dudes who hold out while under contract, or players like Samuel who are caught in the web created by their own union regarding free agency. But Johnson has been used like a trenching tool for KC for 2 seasons and it's hardly out of line to ask for something back.

Johnson may be end up like LT and be an unusually durable RB, but the odds are greatly against that posssibility. More likely his stats have a significant decline in '07 followed by everyone wondering if he's done.

KC is in a tight spot as well as they have to anticipate a drop off of some kind for LJ. Do they pay him out of moral obligation for grinding him to a nub? If they don't he could become an exception and take his HOF numbers elsewhere next season... what to do???

There's little useful comparison between Samuel and Johnson. LJ is a bonafide superstar - who could argue? Samuel very well could be a one hit wonder with decent talent. Hold Asante up against Johnson and he's a bum asking for a king's ransom. Hey, Samuel can ask for anything he wants, that's his option. But suggesting that Asante in any way has earned his place as a undisputed superstar and the matching money like Johnson has is plain foolishness.

 

[upstater1]

Re: OT: Larry Johnson wanting Tomlinson money - Like Asante situation wanting Clement

For all of the talk about how much rookies get paid, rookies take up a very small percentage of the cap.

The 32 NFL teams have an aggregate adjusted cap total of 3,555,918,023. The 2007 rookie pool is 136,776,000. In other words, the rookie pool is 3.85% of the total cap.

If we figure that each team will start the regular season with an average of 3 players on PUP or IR, there will be around 1,800 NFL players on NFL Rosters on Week 1. There were 255 draft picks. 255 out of 1800 is just over 14%.

In summary, 14% of the players are taking up less than 4% of the cap.

Please note that in 2006 that the cap went up 19.3% while the rookie pool went up 5%. This year the cap went up 6.99% while the rookie pool went up 2.5%. Next year the cap will increase by at least 6.41% while the most that the rookie pool can go up is 5% (I would guess that it will go up 2.5%). One can definitely see a trend in which the rookies are getting a smaller slice of the cap especially since the increases in the rookie pool is definitely capped at 5% and there may be no limit to how much the cap can go up in a year at least according to my understanding of the new CBA.

I have yet to see any evidence in this thread that the reason that there are underpaid veterans is because of overpaid rookies. I see no reason why the NFLPA should agree to lower how much 14% of their members get paid when teams are using the phony LTBE move as much as they are. Why would Rodney Harrison be upset at what Maroney made as a rookie last year when the Pats devoted over $4 million in 2006 cap space in separate LTBE moves??Larry Johnson has to know that the Chiefs instead of using some of their 2006 free cap space on him pushed out over $8 million in cap space to the 2007 cap year.

It's not a matter of evidence. It's a matter of fairness. I really think all your stats proved is that most players get their just desserts, rookies and vets alike. But there are UDFAs and the like out there who never hit the big payday, whle rookie busts make a lot more than them. No stat can address how unfair that is.

I have no problem with what most rookies get paid. I mean, it's peanuts when you look at the 3rd and 4th rounders. What you've done is average the money from rounds 2 through 7 together with round 1, and that brings down the average considerably for the first rounders.

I specifically have a problem with the big first round contracts, especially at the top. In fact, I guarantee you that most NFL GMs dread those contracts because they know the odds are stacked against the teams shelling out that kind of dough. Why does Robert Gallery deserve all that money? While a UDFA will never make that kind of dough.

 

[upstater1]

Re: OT: Larry Johnson wanting Tomlinson money - Like Asante situation wanting Clement

I appreciate your response, as I tend to think no one reads what I write, but I already agreed with you. I thought I had made my stance known by saying that "I [didn't] agree with that bunk". I'm with you: I was cold on Enis, but what happened to K-J Carter was disappointing as a football fan. I'm also a big fan of PSU "off-backs" a la Gash, for sure.

Sorry. I read what you wrote. I read right "over it." Heh.

 

[zarakotas5]

Re: OT: Larry Johnson wanting Tomlinson money - Like Asante situation wanting Clement

The sad fact is, that while RB is amongst the most prolific and needed positions, it is also amongst the most readily re-staffed.

LJ deserves the dough (although 1.7 is a lottery for most). He played well. I said it before, and PFnV said it better, despite circumstance, he took a chance. He took that chance and made good. If he believed in himself, he shouldn't have taken such a chance against himself.

 

[zarakotas5]

Re: OT: Larry Johnson wanting Tomlinson money - Like Asante situation wanting Clement

Sorry. I read what you wrote. I read right "over it." Heh.

This is ambiguous. Do we agree, or are you still agast at what I wrote?

PS: Nevermind, I get it now, but it doesn't matter anyway...sorry, man.