OT: It's unanimous so far...T. Dungy=B. Walsh

[PF1996]

http://www2.indystar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=203315

The AFCCG meltdown just keeps giving....

 

[DarrylS]

Re: OT - It's unanimous so far...T. Dungy=B. Walsh

Kinda like an Indy ***********...

 

[wistahpatsfan]

Re: OT - It's unanimous so far...T. Dungy=B. Walsh

HOLY SH-T!

How about this one?

..."I think it should also be noted one of Bill Walsh's greatest achievements was a mentoring program for young up and coming African American coaches. Some of the recipients were Dennis Green, Ty Willingham, Marvin Lewis and our leader Coach Dungy. Bill was way ahead of his time and I am glad that I lived in the Bay Area at the time the 49er's were starting their run. The NFL lost a true legend and I believe his face should be etched on the coaching Mt Rushmore along with Lombardi, Landry, Belichick... and...coach Dungy"...

 

[danny88]

Re: OT - It's unanimous so far...T. Dungy=B. Walsh

HOLY SH-T!
How about this one?
..."I think it should also be noted one of Bill Walsh's greatest achievements was a mentoring program for young up and coming African American coaches. Some of the recipients were Dennis Green, Ty Willingham, Marvin Lewis and our leader Coach Dungy. Bill was way ahead of his time and I am glad that I lived in the Bay Area at the time the 49er's were starting their run. The NFL lost a true legend and I believe his face should be etched on the coaching Mt Rushmore along with Lombardi, Landry, Belichick... and...coach Dungy"...

That entire website is obsessed with the Pats. I love reading it for a good laugh. 90 percent of the posters there know nothing about football, lol. All they do is worry about the Pats. HAHAHA!!!!

 

[theONLYJerseypatsfan]

Re: OT - It's unanimous so far...T. Dungy=B. Walsh

HOLY SH-T!
How about this one?
..."I think it should also be noted one of Bill Walsh's greatest achievements was a mentoring program for young up and coming African American coaches. Some of the recipients were Dennis Green, Ty Willingham, Marvin Lewis and our leader Coach Dungy. Bill was way ahead of his time and I am glad that I lived in the Bay Area at the time the 49er's were starting their run. The NFL lost a true legend and I believe his face should be etched on the coaching Mt Rushmore along with Lombardi, Landry, Belichick... and...coach Dungy"...

So how many people wake up in the morning and do some early internet surfing....only to see a caption like this that you know is just gonna RUIN YOUR DAY! This is a coach that has always been humiliated by the best teams in his teams conference(eagles when he was a bucs coach and pats/steelers when he was the colts coach) and the only reason he hasnt been fired for loosing the AFCCG is 3 crap calls and the flu

 

[Brady'sButtBoy]

Re: OT - It's unanimous so far...T. Dungy=B. Walsh

Yes, some of the delusion and hyperbole is incredible.

Such as-
"Another feather in Dungy cap is he obliterated the notion that blacks weren't smart enough, organized enough, detailed enough to lead an NFL team to a championship."

" I think Tony Dungy is a Vince Lombardi, Tom Landry, Chuck Noll type coach."

On Lomabrdi and Dungy- "Both great coaches." "I saw them both and they are/were both great coaches"

"Walsh never reached the folk hero status that Dungy has achieved"

"Right now, Dungy is one of the most important figures in the country, in or out of sports."

"At this very moment among non ministers there is no greater figure in Christianity than Dungy."

"Dungy...IMO is going to the HOF"

 

[zippo59]

Re: OT - It's unanimous so far...T. Dungy=B. Walsh

What a joke.

 

[patriot lifer]

Re: OT - It's unanimous so far...T. Dungy=B. Walsh

To utter the two names in the same breath is absurd. I hate to say it outright about the guy but Dungy isn't even going to be remembered. From what we've heard, he's already contemplated retirement. And when he does retire, that's a relatively short term as head coach. His players will go doen in history, but not Dungy.

 

[patfanken]

Re: OT - It's unanimous so far...T. Dungy=B. Walsh

What a joke.

Actually it isn't. Walsh was an offensive inovator who created an offensive system that was revolutionary back in the 80's and a lot of his system is the standard practise today. Think about it. Dungy developed the Tampa 2 defense that was revolutionary back in the 90's and a lot of the principles are standard practice today. Even back in the 80's man to man was the basic technique that was used. After the "Tampa 2", zone defenses have become the standard.

Don't deride Dungy just because he's different from BB. They are both successful doing it differently. Dungy believes instead of trying to do alot of things scheme-wise, he believes that keeping it simple eliminates mistakes, and allows the player to see the play from the same position and react better. On offense the Colts have been running the same offensive system for the entire Manning career. To that extent he IS like Lombardi and Noll. They believed that they didn't care if you knew what they were doing, they would just out execute you. Now this is a gross simplification, because I'm sure there is a lot more sophistication in Dungy's defense than I am portraying, but it illustrates my point

Dungy is similar to BB in that he has a plan that he believes in and saw it through to completion. He is a great individual leader whose players love him, respect him and play hard for him, which is all you want in a coach. BB has a lot less charisma, but HIS players respect and play hard for him BECAUSE they know that he will put them into the best position to succeed.

The respect is the same, though its less personal in BB's case. They both deflect praise. They both are low key. They both are models of consistancy.

I don't think that Dungy is as good as BB, but there is no questioning his long pattern of success, so he isn't that far off, and we should be big enough to admit it.

Different doesn't not always mean better.

 

[TripleOption]

Re: OT - It's unanimous so far...T. Dungy=B. Walsh

Think about it. Dungy developed the Tampa 2 defense that was revolutionary back in the 90's and a lot of the principles are standard practice today. Even back in the 80's man to man was the basic technique that was used. After the "Tampa 2", zone defenses have become the standard.

PLEASE STOP. Dungy did not "create" the Cover 2 as you are implying, and as stated on the IndyStar board. The Cover 2 became more prominent as the West Coast Offense gained popularity due to the 2 Deep, 5 Under. The "Tampa 2" you are crediting Dungy with merely involved the MLB sinking to the middle hole, which is the weakness in a standard Cover 2.

The West Coast Offense, with all it's reads and adjustments was a true innovation. The Tampa 2 is not.

Teams have been running Cover 2 forever. Implying that before Dungy, all the cavemen only ran Man Coverage is just ridiculous.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: OT - It's unanimous so far...T. Dungy=B. Walsh

I think it is way too premature to say that Dungy's Tampa 2 will have a lasting effect like Walsh's West Coast Offense. It is nearly 30 years since Walsh introduced the West Coast Offense and it is still alive and well and a large number of teams are still using it or an offense derived from it.

On the other hand, the Cover 2 or Tampa 2 looks to be losing vogue a bit in the league. Teams have learned how to exploit it with the running game and utilizing TEs and RBs more in the passing game. Few of the top defenses in the league employ the Tampa 2 as their base anymore. Only Chicago is in the top 5. Indy's defense is a shambles (except for a run in the playoffs and that was in part based on the competition). Tampa's defense is a shell of itself.

I just don't think the Tampa 2 changed the game like the West Coast Offense. Nor do I think it will have the lasting effect that the WCO has.

 

[richpats]

Re: OT - It's unanimous so far...T. Dungy=B. Walsh

"Another feather in Dungy cap is he obliterated the notion that blacks weren't smart enough, organized enough, detailed enough to lead an NFL team to a championship."
.....

"Dungy...IMO is going to the HOF"

Yeah, a notion that people had 40 years ago

Dungy is no better than Andy Reid as far as head coaches go. He's lucky enough to have his HOF QB stay upright his entire time in Indy. Andy Reid has gone to the playoffs twice after McNabb missed significant time.

Dungy squeaked by the '06 Pats at home but Reid's Eagles hung tough with the '04 Pats (one of the top-10 teams of all time) in the Super Bowl. Dungy had to stop Rex Grossman...yeah, HOF-worthy.

I doubt Dungy will be around long enough to build a strong legacy anyways- he's gone after this year. When I think of the great coaches, usually they didn't retire after winning one championship.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: OT - It's unanimous so far...T. Dungy=B. Walsh

PLEASE STOP. Dungy did not "create" the Cover 2 as you are implying, and as stated on the IndyStar board. The Cover 2 became more prominent as the West Coast Offense gained popularity due to the 2 Deep, 5 Under. The "Tampa 2" you are crediting Dungy with merely involved the MLB sinking to the middle hole, which is the weakness in a standard Cover 2.

The West Coast Offense, with all it's reads and adjustments was a true innovation. The Tampa 2 is not.

Teams have been running Cover 2 forever. Implying that before Dungy, all the cavemen only ran Man Coverage is just ridiculous.

Actually you are right. I looked it up and the Tampa 2 is actually a derivative of the Steel Curtain defense. Even Dungy admits that it was Chuck Noll's and Bud Carson's defense that he made a few changes to.

So how can you claim that Dungy is like Walsh when Walsh developed a completely new offense and Dungy just modified a defense he played under when he was a player? By the way, we have to say the same about Belichick because he runs a modified 3-4 defense created by Hank Bullough and Chuck Fairbanks. At least we can claim the Patriots created the 3-4 defense.

 

[TripleOption]

Re: OT - It's unanimous so far...T. Dungy=B. Walsh

Actually you are right. I looked it up and the Tampa 2 is actually a derivative of the Steel Curtain defense. Even Dungy admits that it was Chuck Noll's and Bud Carson's defense that he made a few changes to.

So how can you claim that Dungy is like Walsh when Walsh developed a completely new offense and Dungy just modified a defense he played under when he was a player? By the way, we have to say the same about Belichick because he runs a modified 3-4 defense created by Hank Bullough and Chuck Fairbanks. At least we can claim the Patriots created the 3-4 defense.

Actually, I would consider the 3-4 a derivative of the old "Okie 5-2" Defense.

Nothing is new in Football. The Triple Option, the Zone blocking scheme, the West Coast Offense...those are true innovations.

I do not consider Belichick the creator of the 3-4, but he definitely refined it and has a very successful system of techniques and coverages to package with it.

 

[Nordberg]

Re: OT - It's unanimous so far...T. Dungy=B. Walsh

Isn't it amazing what a superbowl win will do for a teams message board. Not to long ago....half the fans over at IndyStar wanted Dungy out. I also read that board on a regular basis...and it's high comedy. You could start a thread over their saying Gonzo COULD have 100 catches for 3,000 yards...and there will be a good amount of fans agreeing with you.

....and how the hell is Dungy a great coach? He is suppose to be a defensive coach right, yet the Colts are a terrible defensively year in and year out. I would think a great head coach would have a great offense or defense depending on what he is known for. Can anyone explain that?

The Colts win because of there offensive talent, and time together in the system that know other team in the league can claim....same OC to boot.

I like Tony Dungy alot (as a person) ......but he could most likely sit in the stands ...and the Colts would do just as well.

 

[patfanken]

Re: OT - It's unanimous so far...T. Dungy=B. Walsh

Everything is a derivative of something that has come before it. Homer Rice developed a lot of the principles of the West Coast offense well before Walsh came on the scene. The principles of the 3-4 defense were standard practice with the great Oklahome teams of the 50's and early 60's.

It is easy to denegrate and pick apart Dungy's coaching legacy. Nothing in the previous few posts are inherently wrong. You CAN make a case that there is nothing special about what Dungy has accomplished. However while I think BB is the better coach, I still think Dungy has been one of the better coaches in the league for a long time.

BTW- I looks, to this point anyway, that Dungy's coaching tree has been more successful than BB's...at least at the NFL level.

 

[TripleOption]

Re: OT - It's unanimous so far...T. Dungy=B. Walsh

I love the claims that Dungy is a great coach because of his Christian beliefs. Or the "he may not be as successful as Walsh, but they are similar in that they were both father figures"

If I need to start a list of the crappy coaches that were "father figures", I guess Herm comes to mind.

 

[TripleOption]

Re: OT - It's unanimous so far...T. Dungy=B. Walsh

Everything is a derivative of something that has come before it. Homer Rice developed a lot of the principles of the West Coast offense well before Walsh came on the scene. The principles of the 3-4 defense were standard practice with the great Oklahome teams of the 50's and early 60's.

I would consider Paul Brown to be the man that began the West Coast concepts, and Walsh carried it onward.

I already referred to the Okie 5-2...but the Tampa 2 is no innovation. In fact, I would call it a "tweak" more than a system.

 

[stattry]

Re: OT - It's unanimous so far...T. Dungy=B. Walsh

That entire website is obsessed with the Pats. I love reading it for a good laugh. 90 percent of the posters there know nothing about football, lol. All they do is worry about the Pats. HAHAHA!!!!

You do, of course, realize the irony of your statement about obsession.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Re: OT - It's unanimous so far...T. Dungy=B. Walsh

HOLY SH-T!

How about this one?

..."I think it should also be noted one of Bill Walsh's greatest achievements was a mentoring program for young up and coming African American coaches. Some of the recipients were Dennis Green, Ty Willingham, Marvin Lewis and our leader Coach Dungy. Bill was way ahead of his time and I am glad that I lived in the Bay Area at the time the 49er's were starting their run. The NFL lost a true legend and I believe his face should be etched on the coaching Mt Rushmore along with Lombardi, Landry, Belichick... and...coach Dungy"...

We really can't get upset about nonsense like this. However, he does include BB...