OT: DK Metcalf...great article.

[BelizePats]

Metcalf's physical talents were apparent at the draft combine. As I recall, the concerns were why those other-worldly skills had not really translated to a dominant college career. You have to decide what data to trust, and apparently NE relied more on game results that, while not bad, were not as awe-inspiring as one might expect for such a physical beast.

The draft will always be an inexact science because you are juggling how to weigh what you see on the stopwatch, the game tape, the coach's evaluation, your interviews with the guy & his personality /motivation/ love for the game that you have to determine based on a tiny snapshot.

It was a miss, by many teams, including NE. To his credit, Metcalf has been motivated by his draft slide to work more on his craft.

I understand that its an inexact science but we passed on a variety of highly skilled players at a position we ended up drafting. I look at Brown, who, played against far better talent in the SEC and I can't help but wonder what the team metrics were that indicated that Harry should have been the pick?

 

[PatsBoy12]

Yeah if anyone has really seen DK, he doesn't really separate unless it's running straight down the field and he outruns DBs. He out-physicals DBs on a lot of short or intermediate passes. I doubt he would have had the same success with Brady. Maybe in the redzone, but Brady likes guys who immediately gets separation like Godwin or AB or Edelman when he was here.

AJ Brown is the guy that we really should have drafted. He fits the versatility we are always looking for.

Not that I'm disagreeing, or agreeing for that matter, but I just wanted to point out that most of what you put in your first paragraph describes Harry and why I heard the Pats were interested. Again, I'm not disputing anything you put... just pointing that out. It could possibly prove that DK might have struggled too, but well never know for sure.

 

[NYCPATS4LIFE]

The red flags where there with harry. Lack of burst off the line. His game tape isn’t all that impressive. Let’s take for example deandre hopkins’s game tape. A guy that ran slower in the 40 but his body type is a lot different and he’s faster off the line than harry. Plays faster then his time would indicate.

 

[203Pat]

You can't just say that because 'x' player has physical talent, therefore they would succeed here with certainty. I mean, we just know that isn't always the case. No one said Metcalf isn't an impressive player; no one said that Metcalf would've played poorly here.

I simply said that not getting Brown stings more than missing out on Metcalf IMO - a pretty straightforward opinion. The Patriots' offense is notoriously difficult to learn; if it was as simple as taking a talented player and plugging them in, then we wouldn't have essays devoted to why the Patriots cannot evaluate receiving talent. Chad Jackson would be a good example.

AJ Brown has shown the versatility and consistent route-running that gives me more confidence that he would be an absolute stud here. Others are welcome to disagree of course - that's the nice thing about opinions on sports, they don't really matter.

You basically said he wouldn't be much better than Harry. I find that almost impossible to believe he wouldn't be better than Harry.

 

[SammyBlueCat]

Metcalf is Cat like quick. I would have had fun coachin em'

 

[Triumph]

The red flags where there with harry. Lack of burst off the line. His game tape isn’t all that impressive. Let’s take for example deandre hopkins’s game tape. A guy that ran slower in the 40 but his body type is a lot different and he’s faster off the line than harry. Plays faster then his time would indicate.

I dont want to pat myself on the back, but... I cautioned this board about the need for coming back down to earth regarding high expectations when Harry was drafted.

This joint was going hog wild just because the Pats finally took a WR in round 1. Harry was cant miss.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Save room for Harry.

Word on the street is that he is looking good in practice. Houston could be break out city.

Instagram showing him working out

 

[DropKickFlutie]

I understand that its an inexact science but we passed on a variety of highly skilled players at a position we ended up drafting. I look at Brown, who, played against far better talent in the SEC and I can't help but wonder what the team metrics were that indicated that Harry should have been the pick?

Moronic grading system deployed by McDaniels since 2004. It's why we've sucked at drafting WRs for 15 yrs

 

[203Pat]

Moronic grading system deployed by McDaniels since 2004. It's why we've sucked at drafting WRs for 15 yrs

Johnathan Baldwin A+
Julio Jones B

 

[Kontradiction]

I understand that its an inexact science but we passed on a variety of highly skilled players at a position we ended up drafting. I look at Brown, who, played against far better talent in the SEC and I can't help but wonder what the team metrics were that indicated that Harry should have been the pick?

Running in an L pattern as quickly as they would like. They put too much emphasis on 3-cone times.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Running in an L pattern as quickly as they would like. They put too much emphasis on 3-cone times.

Different metrics for different types of WRs. I don't even know who we look for because Welker was traded, Jules and Meyers were 7th rd or undrafted. Our WR scouting system is totally broken by McDaniels

.

 

[NG Pats Fan]

What might have been in 2019 with AJ Brown and a 2020 Damien Harris instead of Son of Maroney.

Other notable 2019 WRs -

2nd Mecole Hardman is going to be good.
3rd Terry McLaurin has been nothing but solid
3rd Dontae Johnson is paying off for the Steelers as a solid # 3.
6th Travis Fulgham is in the thick of things in Detroit.
6th Scotty Miller.

diontae Johnson gets 12 targets per game. He’s the number one in Pitt

mclaurin has been pro bowl level

Slayton on pace for 1000 yards

 

[NG Pats Fan]

Not convinced Metcalf would've been particularly great here.

laughable statement. Russell Wilson has already said Metcalf will eventually go down as one of the greatest WRs of all time.


if Metcalf can’t succeed here, then fire our offensive coaches and change our entire offense!

 

[condon84]

Metcalf looks to be running plenty of routes just fine. I hate it when people just say things for the sake of saying things. He is a stud. He would have been a stud here. He has learned (pretty quickly) how to run routes at an NFL level. He can fly. He can jump. He is physical. You're telling me that the best coach in the history of the game couldn't work with those skills and get what the Seahawks are getting from him?

You basically took his best plays. My point of him not being a quick twitch athlete, but more so being physical and having long speed still stands. On one of the gifs, he basically used his physicality to shove the DB out of the way and then outran him going deep.

Here's an entire game of him running routes against a competent CB in Ramsey

 

[NG Pats Fan]

Metcalf's physical talents were apparent at the draft combine. As I recall, the concerns were why those other-worldly skills had not really translated to a dominant college career. You have to decide what data to trust, and apparently NE relied more on game results that, while not bad, were not as awe-inspiring as one might expect for such a physical beast.

The draft will always be an inexact science because you are juggling how to weigh what you see on the stopwatch, the game tape, the coach's evaluation, your interviews with the guy & his personality /motivation/ love for the game that you have to determine based on a tiny snapshot.

It was a miss, by many teams, including NE. To his credit, Metcalf has been motivated by his draft slide to work more on his craft.

metcalfs college tape is incredible. It shows a huge tall speciman of a Human regularly separating at ease, with elite acceration off the line of scrimmage and break away top speed. Add in the intangibles like toughness which he clearly displayed and you have an elite wideout, A guy that big tall strong and fast NEVER should have been bypassed for Bambi Williams

 

[NG Pats Fan]

You can't just say that because 'x' player has physical talent, therefore they would succeed here with certainty. I mean, we just know that isn't always the case. No one said Metcalf isn't an impressive player; no one said that Metcalf would've played poorly here.

I simply said that not getting Brown stings more than missing out on Metcalf IMO - a pretty straightforward opinion. The Patriots' offense is notoriously difficult to learn; if it was as simple as taking a talented player and plugging them in, then we wouldn't have essays devoted to why the Patriots cannot evaluate receiving talent. Chad Jackson would be a good example.

AJ Brown has shown the versatility and consistent route-running that gives me more confidence that he would be an absolute stud here. Others are welcome to disagree of course - that's the nice thing about opinions on sports, they don't really matter.

chad jackson was 34 years old and physically washed up when we got him

 

[VrabelJr]

Metcalf wouldn’t be having the success he’s having right now with Tennis elbow Brady last year and Can’t Throw Newton this year.

The article points to a lot of reasons for his success: Russell Wilson and DK working together a ton and Pete Carroll integrating DK into the offense gradually. The rest is just DK making plays with his insane athleticism. I’m not sold on him as a route runner just yet. He could very well end up with a Dez Bryant kind of career.

 

[203Pat]

You basically took his best plays. My point of him not being a quick twitch athlete, but more so being physical and having long speed still stands. On one of the gifs, he basically used his physicality to shove the DB out of the way and then outran him going deep.

Here's an entire game of him running routes against a competent CB in Ramsey

So he isn't a "quick twitch" athlete? Arguably some of the best numbers in combine history. a 4.3 40, a 40.5 inch vertical, 27 reps on the bench, and a 134 inch broad jump. Sounds about as explosive as you can possibly get.

You seem to be just making arbitrary things up. "Long speed?" Per NFL.com: D.K. Metcalf's 10-yard split of his 4.33-second 40-yard dash clocked in at 1.45 seconds. This is the fastest 10-split by any combine runner in my database (starting in 2003). Seems to me he is fast right off the line.

Ramsey is a very good corner who shut him down. One game makes Metcalf bad? He is still learning to play the position at an NFL level and has been pretty dominant physically and has vastly improved his route running skills. We went for almost 100 yards and a TD and made the reigning DPOY look pretty bad when he played us. He beat up on a very good corner in Xavien Howard against Miami. He looks to be doing pretty well as far as I can tell.

 

[ivanvamp]

What might have been in 2019 with AJ Brown and a 2020 Damien Harris instead of Son of Maroney.

Other notable 2019 WRs -

2nd Mecole Hardman is going to be good.
3rd Terry McLaurin has been nothing but solid
3rd Dontae Johnson is paying off for the Steelers as a solid # 3.
6th Travis Fulgham is in the thick of things in Detroit.
6th Scotty Miller.

There were 28 WRs drafted that year. The vast majority of them....haven't made it. So it's always a fun game to think about the good players they could have had, but there's a much bigger chance that they'd have taken someone else who didn't amount to anything.

 

[condon84]

So he isn't a "quick twitch" athlete? Arguably some of the best numbers in combine history. a 4.3 40, a 40.5 inch vertical, 27 reps on the bench, and a 134 inch broad jump. Sounds about as explosive as you can possibly get.

You seem to be just making arbitrary things up. "Long speed?" Per NFL.com: D.K. Metcalf's 10-yard split of his 4.33-second 40-yard dash clocked in at 1.45 seconds. This is the fastest 10-split by any combine runner in my database (starting in 2003). Seems to me he is fast right off the line.

Ramsey is a very good corner who shut him down. One game makes Metcalf bad? He is still learning to play the position at an NFL level and has been pretty dominant physically and has vastly improved his route running skills. We went for almost 100 yards and a TD and made the reigning DPOY look pretty bad when he played us. He beat up on a very good corner in Xavien Howard against Miami. He looks to be doing pretty well as far as I can tell.

All those numbers doesn't indicate that he has that quick twitch - change direction speed that Edelman, Godwin, AB, Welker, Branch, Troy all posses and have been a favorite Brady target. The drill that would better indicate his ability to change direction and go in and out of cuts is the 3 cone drill.

DK's time on the 3 cone drill is 7.38 seconds. To give you perspective, Tom Brady's 3 cone drill time is 7.28.

Here's a bit more information about the 3 cone drill and how significant the Pats view this drill when it comes to evaluating receivers - Patriots and the 3-cone drill, an old Belichick favorite

It's obvious Brady has carried over to Tampa his preference on shifty/quick receivers who can get open quickly so he can get rid of the ball before the rush comes.

This is not me saying DK isn't a great receiver. I just don't think he would thrive in the NE passing game. Much like Harry isn't going to thrive in the same system (i don't understand why we picked him).